sonicTransporter i5 & Ultrarendu Issues. I think...

[jdmusante]

Thought I should try here too as I posted something similar to this over in the Roon Community boards.

I've been waiting to post a review of how sonicTransporter and the Ultrarendu but have had some intermittent sound issues. Here's the gist of what I posted there:

I recently purchased a sonicTransporter i5 w/ 1TB SSD with an Ultrarendu. I’m now using the sonicTransporter as my Roon server, this is connected to the UR and run through the USB DAC on an Oppo 205. I have a couple Elac Discovery Z3 endpoints that I connect to via wifi for multiroom room listening.

I’m using Spectrum broadband internet (100+ mbps d/l speeds, seems to be the fastest I can find in LA) and have it connected to a Netgear Orbi wifi mesh system with two satellite extenders in a 2200 sq. ft. house. The ST and the UR and connected directly to the Orbing router.

I am using the parametric EQ on the Z3 satellites but am not using anything else in the DSP Engine section of Roon.

The problem I’m having is when I start playing music, either from the SSD or Tidal, I get a mottled, almost underwater sound from the main system (Is this jitter?). It goes in and out like that for a while and then eventually goes away after extended listening. I thought at first it was when I had the Z3 satellites grouped with the main stereo, that's where the problem was, but that's not the case. I get the same sound when I don't have them grouped in Roon. I never experienced this with the MacMini I was using prior (to be fair, I had all sorts of other issues with that machine). If I can pinpoint what the issue is, I think I have finally found a good set up for streaming after 10+ years. 

I though that ethernet cables might be the issue so I replaced them all with gigabit CAT7 cables but still have the same issue. Going to tear it apart tomorrow and try the ST straight to the OPPO DAC and then just the UR to the DAC to see if it makes a difference. I may hook the MacMini back up and see if that cures it.

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd love to hear them. 

Jason

 

[klinemj]

Very odd. When you say the sound is when you first start playing music...is it with each track or just the first track in a listening session? On rare occasion, when I select the very first track - I hear a sound that sounds,oddly enough, like a needle drop. Then after that - not odd noises at all...just perfect sound. And, this does not happen routinely.

In any case, I'd send a question to Andrew Gillis and see what he says. And, check the Roon Community...could be a Roon issue or an SGC issue.

Mark

[wilburthegoose]

Please describe your network setup. I'm assuming the Roon Server is connected to the uRendu via network.   What are the assigned IP addresses for the Sonic Transporter and uRendu?

Questions - why do you have the uRendu connected to an Oppo? You don't need to involve an Oppo - the uRendu does the same thing.

I think you may have over complicated your design. I'd feed the uRendu directly to you processor (I have mine going to my XMC-1 USB input) or a DAC that's connected to your processor/AVR.

[simpleman68]

I have a similar rig.

sonicTransporter i5 and Sonore Signature Rendu SE but using a Legacy Wavelet as a DAC (via micro usb) and Tidal HQ and Roon.

Apple mini iPad for controller.

sonic and Sonore are connected via ethernet to a dedicated router.

My sound was muddled at first but after looking at settings found that my DAC, for some retarded reason, defaulted to mono when using micro USB input.

Once I switched that out, the whole thing came to life and sounded much better.

I don't have any intermittent audio issues but I do think there is more to be had in terms of SQ. I still have to do more experimenting but my initial impressions are

that it doesn't stack up to CD quality for comparable albums.

Again, I just got this rig up and running and have a lot to learn and tweak yet.

Scott

[foggy1956]

Dec 29, 2018 8:14:42 GMT -5 simpleman68 said:

I have a similar rig.

sonicTransporter i5 and Sonore Signature Rendu SE but using a Legacy Wavelet as a DAC (via micro usb) and Tidal HQ and Roon.

Apple mini iPad for controller.

sonic and Sonore are connected via ethernet to a dedicated router.

My sound was muddled at first but after looking at settings found that my DAC, for some retarded reason, defaulted to mono when using micro USB input.

Once I switched that out, the whole thing came to life and sounded much better.

I don't have any intermittent audio issues but I do think there is more to be had in terms of SQ. I still have to do more experimenting but my initial impressions are

that it doesn't stack up to CD quality for comparable albums.

Again, I just got this rig up and running and have a lot to learn and tweak yet.

Scott

Yup, that mono thingy can make things sound pretty muddy😂

[chicagorspec]

I bought both my Rendu and sT used. When I first bought the Rendu, prior to getting the sT I was forced into using a Win10 laptop as a core, and (probably foolishly) was using it wirelessly in another room. At that time, I would get frequent clicks and cutouts, presumably from less than consistent wireless connection to the router. Since getting my sT i7, I have had nary an issue. However, I believe the i7 is configured differently, as it has two ethernet inputs and last I checked the i5 had one. I connect my router to the i7 with one cable, the i7 then connects to the Rendu with a second, and the Rendu to my DAC via USB. This has seemed to work repeatably and flawlessly over the last ~3 months. From watching Andrew's video, I believe with the i5 he recommended simply connecting both the Rendu and the i5 to the router directly with their own ethernet cables to achieve the same end functionality. I wish you good luck sorting out your problem, and would guess it turns out to be something fixable, especially if you can get Andrew to weigh in on next steps.

[jdmusante]

Dec 29, 2018 7:22:42 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Very odd. When you say the sound is when you first start playing music...is it with each track or just the first track in a listening session? On rare occasion, when I select the very first track - I hear a sound that sounds,oddly enough, like a needle drop. Then after that - not odd noises at all...just perfect sound. And, this does not happen routinely.

In any case, I'd send a question to Andrew Gillis and see what he says. And, check the Roon Community...could be a Roon issue or an SGC issue.

Mark

It can be the first couple of tracks, then it just stops and my listening session is amazing. It's not like what you are saying 'a needle drop', it sounds like my speakers were submerged underwater for 10-15 seconds. 

I did email Andrew but he told me to contact Roon support, saying he didn't know what would cause that.    

Jason

[jdmusante]

Dec 29, 2018 7:48:53 GMT -5 wilburthegoose said:

Please describe your network setup. I'm assuming the Roon Server is connected to the uRendu via network.   What are the assigned IP addresses for the Sonic Transporter and uRendu?

Questions - why do you have the uRendu connected to an Oppo? You don't need to involve an Oppo - the uRendu does the same thing.

I think you may have over complicated your design. I'd feed the uRendu directly to you processor (I have mine going to my XMC-1 USB input) or a DAC that's connected to your processor/AVR
.

ST IP: 192.168.1.30
UR IP: 192.168.1.12

Both the ST and the UR and connected via ethernet cable directly to my router. Both of them show up on my network when I go to the mysonicorbiter.com webpage.



I've been using the OPPO as my DAC the last few months, though I know I could just route it directly to the XMC-1. Unlike some here, I like the sound of it. Sounds even better with the UR. I have the UR connect to the USB DAC on the OPPO and use the balanced outputs on the OPPO into the balanced input in the XMC-1. I don't think there is anything wrong with my setup as per Sonore and SGC. I followed their instructions. 

Jason

[jdmusante]

Dec 29, 2018 8:14:42 GMT -5 simpleman68 said:

sonic and Sonore are connected via ethernet to a dedicated router.

My sound was muddled at first but after looking at settings found that my DAC, for some retarded reason, defaulted to mono when using micro USB input.

Once I switched that out, the whole thing came to life and sounded much better.

I don't have any intermittent audio issues but I do think there is more to be had in terms of SQ. I still have to do more experimenting but my initial impressions are

that it doesn't stack up to CD quality for comparable albums.

Again, I just got this rig up and running and have a lot to learn and tweak yet.

Scott

I looked at the setting in the OPPO and there is not a setting for mono. There are only two setting I could see that have anything to do with the way I'm using the machine, XLR Polarity and Up-Sample DAC Input. The Up-Sample on the OPPO was turned off.

I've been waiting to hear your thoughts on the SignatureRendu. I very rarely play CDs anymore. I was an early adopter to streaming my music digitally with FLAC files via a Squeezebox. Even though I still have a bunch of CDs, they just sit in a box and I move them from house to house  . I should pull a couple out and compare them to the streamed files to see what I think.

Jason

[jdmusante]

Dec 29, 2018 9:41:17 GMT -5 chicagorspec said:

From watching Andrew's video, I believe with the i5 he recommended simply connecting both the Rendu and the i5 to the router directly with their own ethernet cables to achieve the same end functionality. I wish you good luck sorting out your problem, and would guess it turns out to be something fixable, especially if you can get Andrew to weigh in on next steps.

That's exactly what I'm doing, ST and UR connected directly to the router. I'm sure it's fixable. As it's the weekend, I'll have some more time to try some different combos and see what the issue could be.

Jason

[DYohn]

I suspect there is nothing wrong with your network player or server if the "problem" clears itself. I'd try a different USB cable between the player and the OPPO first. And make sure all your SonicTransporter and UR software is up to date.

Question: do you leave the UR and the ST on all the time? You should. Also, is the issue only present after first powering on the Oppo?

I suspect the Oppo is you culprit.

[wilburthegoose]

I agree - I found the Oppo to be subpar to USB directly connected to the XMC-1. I suggest you try that - should be easy to test.

[klinemj]

I'm with Wilbur on this one...if the XMC-1 is on the same system as your Oppo - bypass the Oppo and go USB into the XMC-1. The XMC-1 DAC section is, IMHO, better than the Oppo anyway.

Mark

[jdmusante]

Dec 29, 2018 11:00:26 GMT -5 DYohn said:

I suspect there is nothing wrong with your network player or server if the "problem" clears itself. I'd try a different USB cable between the player and the OPPO first. And make sure all your SonicTransporter and UR software is up to date.

Question: do you leave the UR and the ST on all the time? You should. Also, is the issue only present after first powering on the Oppo?

I suspect the Oppo is you culprit.

Both the ST and UR have the most up to date software. Both are 2.7.

I can try a new USB cable but the one I have is less that 6 months old (Audioquest USB A to USB B). 

I do leave the ST and the UR on all the time. Yes, this only happens when I first turn on my system (OPPO, XMC-1, AMPs) and start playing music. The OPPO is updated to the latest USB firmware as well. Could be the OPPO but you'd think it was an obvious setting issue that was wrong but I don't see one.

Jason

[jdmusante]

Dec 29, 2018 11:07:28 GMT -5 wilburthegoose said:

I agree - I found the Oppo to be subpar to USB directly connected to the XMC-1. I suggest you try that - should be easy to test.

This will be my first change. Just as soon as my wife gets up and I can blast some music  . That would be unfortunate if it was the OPPO. No sense in having a 205 if I cannot use the DAC on it.

I appreciate everyone's input on this. I'll report back later with what I find.

Jason

[DYohn]

Dec 29, 2018 11:10:01 GMT -5 jdmusante said:

Dec 29, 2018 11:00:26 GMT -5 DYohn said:

I suspect there is nothing wrong with your network player or server if the "problem" clears itself. I'd try a different USB cable between the player and the OPPO first. And make sure all your SonicTransporter and UR software is up to date.

Question: do you leave the UR and the ST on all the time? You should. Also, is the issue only present after first powering on the Oppo?

I suspect the Oppo is you culprit.

Both the ST and UR have the most up to date software. Both are 2.7.

I can try a new USB cable but the one I have is less that 6 months old (Audioquest USB A to USB B). 

I do leave the ST and the UR on all the time. Yes, this only happens when I first turn on my system (OPPO, XMC-1, AMPs) and start playing music. The OPPO is updated to the latest USB firmware as well. Could be the OPPO but you'd think it was an obvious setting issue that was wrong but I don't see one.

Jason

Not a setting necessarily, just some sort of power-on incompatibility. Try this: power on the Oppo and play something else first, like a BRD, for a few seconds. Make sure it sounds good. Then switch it over to USB and try playing some music using the UR.

[jdmusante]

Dec 29, 2018 11:07:28 GMT -5 wilburthegoose said:

I agree - I found the Oppo to be subpar to USB directly connected to the XMC-1. I suggest you try that - should be easy to test.

So I removed the OPPO from the mix as Wilbur and Mark suggested and hooked it directly to the XMC-1. Weird underwater sounds are now gone. 

Sent an email to OPPO asking them to explain themselves  . If I can't get the OPPO to work properly, I may need to move onto the Yggdrasil. Will be taking the hour drive up to the Schiitr, just north of me to check it out.

Thanks to Wilbur, Mark and DYohn for pointing me toward the OPPO being the issue. Cheers, gentlemen!

Jason

[wilburthegoose]

Jason - glad this worked out for you...

For me the XMC-1's DAC was very adequate. Are you really sure you need a Yggdrasil?

[klinemj]

Great news Jason! As you look into other DAC options, there are many, and the Yggy is one. Many here like them, and others have found options like the Mytek products and the Holo Audio Spring products. I really love my LH Labs Geek X Infinity, but they are not longer made and hard to find. I think the XMC-1 DAC is very good on par with Emotiva's DC-1, but there are better options. And, the Yggy is worth looking at for sure.

Mark

[jdmusante]

Dec 30, 2018 7:55:55 GMT -5 wilburthegoose said:

Jason - glad this worked out for you...

For me the XMC-1's DAC was very adequate. Are you really sure you need a Yggdrasil?

Need? Probably not. You're right that is is pretty good but I think I can squeeze better performance out of my system with the right DAC. I'm going to try some other options out if I cannot get a good answer out of OPPO on why their 205 is doing what it is doing. 

Jason