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Post by arrogantyeti on Jan 2, 2019 18:59:23 GMT -5
He would be losing brightness, color, and black levels all for the sake of a larger picture. No projector is beating out an OLED screen except in size. Yep, but the immersive gain from going big is greater than the OLED's superiority in brightness, color and black levels. I'd trade an excellent picture with 2X screen size (diagonal; square inch increase would be far greater) over a more excellent picture at 1/2X any day. If I was lucky enough that this was a dedicated move space, I'd be all over a projector. As it is, this is the only TV in the house, and we really only use it 10-15% for movies. I do game quite a bit, and the immersion argument is compelling, but I also game competitively and having to physically adjust my head (even slightly) to see everything on screen would be unfortunate (I already have to do this with my ultrawide PC monitor, one of the reasons I regret that purchase). Also logistically, the sofa's right up against the back wall, and the ceiling's only about 7' tall, so there's really no way to fit a projector anywhere that it's not going to be obnoxious. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 2, 2019 19:16:53 GMT -5
Ah well, it was worth a shot.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 2, 2019 19:37:01 GMT -5
I also recommend getting that TV up on the wall so that frees up your space for a center channel and a different cabinet to house your receiver. Of course adding an Emotiva external amplifier will really make those speakers sing! I'd just like to make a point as to why I disagree with you on this one. At a proper height placement, as it appears the OP has (very important), putting the TV on the wall turns it into a big piece of reflective glass that you can't control. Although my system is slightly different, with bipolar speakers that pump sound back at the wall, I really didn't like the idea putting something extra back there. Instead of putting it on the wall, I decided to leave it on a stand. This allowed for 2 great things to happen. I was able to put a 24 x 48 sound absorbing panel right behind the TV which made a huge difference in SQ. Totally took out the "tunnel" sound the TV was creating. If it were on the wall being overly reflective, I couldnt do anything about it. It also allowed me to bring the screen forward more than being on a wall, which allows for me to enjoy the largest most imersive picture size the 65" screen allows for. So in other words, Id recommend leaving the TV right where it is, pull it forward as much as possible, and put a 24 x 48 sound absorbing panel right behind it. It my actual experience its the better option. |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 2, 2019 19:48:42 GMT -5
Ah well, it was worth a shot. My problem with a projector is the need for a dark room. My place is a family room and not only is keeping things dark not an option for the most part, but the tv is on for a good part of the day. A projector kept on for that long would go through expensive bulbs pretty quickly. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 2, 2019 22:11:31 GMT -5
My problem with a projector is the need for a dark room. My place is a family room and not only is keeping things dark not an option for the most part, but the tv is on for a good part of the day. A projector kept on for that long would go through expensive bulbs pretty quickly. Well.... although my suggestion was for him and not you....but, yes on the dark room. However he was in the basement and obviously light wasn't an issue. It's why most people's theatre rooms aren't their living/main rooms. Projectors can go thousands of hours without needing a new bulb, so that part wouldn't really be as big of an issue as you believe. |
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Post by arrogantyeti on Jan 3, 2019 11:32:31 GMT -5
Nice review! So what do you think of the bass just by itself? Is it enough to run without a subwoofer and not feel like you HAVE to stick one in? Interesting you found the T2's too large. I found them to be rather small myself. Just turned off the sub, set it to 'none' in my receiver settings, set the fronts to "large", and I've got to say there is ample bass. There's significantly more bass "slam" than when I had the sub crossover set to either 60 or 80hz (which probably means I have some work to do in my sub's internal EQ and room correction settings). I'm actually really pleased with this, and pleasantly surprised with how much presence this adds. I don't have an actual SPL or frequency sweep tool, but going through as many YouTube "frequency sweep" videos as I could has me fairly confident in the results, which for me, in my room and with my power and source and zero room correction software or treatments, I'm getting what feels like very little drop off til just below 40hz. The difference between 35 and 40 is pretty stark, and there's a definite bump right around 45 in my room, but 40 was rock solid. I did hear what sounded like port chuffing at the 35hz test tone. I'm enjoying them so much more when set to "large", even if I set the crossover to 40hz, that I'm planning on leaving them there. I'll have to revisit that if I hear port noise during normal use. I like my bass, and this test was very revealing for me. I haven't tried movies or gaming yet but at least so far with music alone (Spotify "Premium" streaming via Chromecast Audio), I'd be super happy with no sub, given all of the specifics to my setup and results. I'm anxious to test out some games later this evening. |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 3, 2019 11:45:41 GMT -5
Nice review! So what do you think of the bass just by itself? Is it enough to run without a subwoofer and not feel like you HAVE to stick one in? Interesting you found the T2's too large. I found them to be rather small myself. Just turned off the sub, set it to 'none' in my receiver settings, set the fronts to "large", and I've got to say there is ample bass. There's significantly more bass "slam" than when I had the sub crossover set to either 60 or 80hz (which probably means I have some work to do in my sub's internal EQ and room correction settings). I'm actually really pleased with this, and pleasantly surprised with how much presence this adds. I don't have an actual SPL or frequency sweep tool, but going through as many YouTube "frequency sweep" videos as I could has me fairly confident in the results, which for me, in my room and with my power and source and zero room correction software or treatments, I'm getting what feels like very little drop off til just below 40hz. The difference between 35 and 40 is pretty stark, and there's a definite bump right around 45 in my room, but 40 was rock solid. I did hear what sounded like port chuffing at the 35hz test tone. I'm enjoying them so much more when set to "large", even if I set the crossover to 40hz, that I'm planning on leaving them there. I'll have to revisit that if I hear port noise during normal use. I like my bass, and this test was very revealing for me. I haven't tried movies or gaming yet but at least so far with music alone (Spotify "Premium" streaming via Chromecast Audio), I'd be super happy with no sub, given all of the specifics to my setup and results. I'm anxious to test out some games later this evening. GREAT INFO! Thank you. I may consider this for an office system then. |
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Post by arrogantyeti on Jan 3, 2019 12:45:25 GMT -5
Sufficiently impressed that I just ordered a C1. Not sure exactly what I'll do for placing the thing yet, I don't have a wall mount for the TV. I'm seriously toying with the idea of placing the TV (~ 55lbs) ON the center channel, how bad an idea is that? I've done some rough measurements, it may just fit...
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Post by adaboy on Jan 3, 2019 12:59:12 GMT -5
Sufficiently impressed that I just ordered a C1. Not sure exactly what I'll do for placing the thing yet, I don't have a wall mount for the TV. I'm seriously toying with the idea of placing the TV (~ 55lbs) ON the center channel, how bad an idea is that? I've done some rough measurements, it may just fit... If you have any children or pets, you will need to mount that tv. Order one from Amazon at a price you are comfortable with. Also you'd regret not mounting it if one day the action vibrated the display to the floor. An old fable: Do it right the first time. Enjoy those nice looking speakers. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 3, 2019 13:19:05 GMT -5
how bad an idea is that? I've done some rough measurements, it may just fit... Just build a 3 sided box (top and left/right side) to put over/around the C1 that the TV can rest on. |
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Post by creimes on Jan 3, 2019 13:28:23 GMT -5
Wall mount is what I recommend, I had my 60" Panny plasma wall mounted before I went to a projector, I purchased a full motion mount 6 years back for $100, well worth it IMO, better option than boxing speakers in IMO.
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Post by stereojunkie on Jan 7, 2019 11:20:42 GMT -5
nice review. I have been eyeing these or the goldenear 7 for a small office setup.
on a side note, I know the amt tweeters are known for a broad soundstage but how do the speakers image? I am a big fan of a speaker that can produce a center image that is behind the speakers to add layers of depth.
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Post by arrogantyeti on Jan 10, 2019 15:09:56 GMT -5
nice review. I have been eyeing these or the goldenear 7 for a small office setup. on a side note, I know the amt tweeters are known for a broad soundstage but how do the speakers image? I am a big fan of a speaker that can produce a center image that is behind the speakers to add layers of depth. They image incredibly well. I just received my C1 (and B1 for rears) today, and had to get up and check that my C1 was *not* on when I went back and listened to some plain old stereo music after getting everything hooked up. I haven't done much to test how wide the image is, or how well they place things within that image, but when it comes to dead-on center imaging, they are rock-solid, and more solid than either of the KEF sets I've had (*Note on that below). Regarding the KEFs: I just realized the other day that I've had my sub phase set incorrectly for as long as I've had it. This is definitely why I was hearing more output from the T-Zero than my (beefy) sub, and because I have the crossover set at 60 might also have caused some imaging funkiness with the KEFs. Another thing I'm realizing with the sub (or bass in general) is that I've got some crazy room modes going on. There's a large bump right around 45hz, and a couple of significant dips around 60/65 and then again in the high 30s. Might be time to either replace my ancient AVR, or augment its power with some more modern processor with excellent room correction software. I've been looking into picking up a Denon or Marantz with Audyssey XT32, but kinda like the idea of going MC-700. Anybody have experience with how robust EmoQ is? |
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Post by creimes on Jan 10, 2019 21:14:03 GMT -5
nice review. I have been eyeing these or the goldenear 7 for a small office setup. on a side note, I know the amt tweeters are known for a broad soundstage but how do the speakers image? I am a big fan of a speaker that can produce a center image that is behind the speakers to add layers of depth. They image incredibly well. I just received my C1 (and B1 for rears) today, and had to get up and check that my C1 was *not* on when I went back and listened to some plain old stereo music after getting everything hooked up. I haven't done much to test how wide the image is, or how well they place things within that image, but when it comes to dead-on center imaging, they are rock-solid, and more solid than either of the KEF sets I've had (*Note on that below). Regarding the KEFs: I just realized the other day that I've had my sub phase set incorrectly for as long as I've had it. This is definitely why I was hearing more output from the T-Zero than my (beefy) sub, and because I have the crossover set at 60 might also have caused some imaging funkiness with the KEFs. Another thing I'm realizing with the sub (or bass in general) is that I've got some crazy room modes going on. There's a large bump right around 45hz, and a couple of significant dips around 60/65 and then again in the high 30s. Might be time to either replace my ancient AVR, or augment its power with some more modern processor with excellent room correction software. I've been looking into picking up a Denon or Marantz with Audyssey XT32, but kinda like the idea of going MC-700. Anybody have experience with how robust EmoQ is? I have a bump in the 45hz area as well, the following pic is Dirac room correction for my Airmotiv 6s on my XMC-1, I have the full version which lets the user adjust the curve, I drop the 700hz and 18,000hz 3db to help with the low end as I find after Dirac i lose more of the low end than I prefer to, I like to bring the 20 - 35hz up and that's why I have the Dirac full version though which is $99 on the Emotiva site. Switching back and froth from Preset 1 to dirac on my XMC-1 while listening to music I can notice a big difference, it may not be for everyone, after years of listening to an unbalanced response one may come to like that, it's a personal preference for sure, but I find the music much fuller sounding having the response flattened out, more detail in what I am hearing for sure. Have you considered a used XMC-1 ?? I had one about 4 years ago that I sold but recently got one back on the lounger here for $1000 shipped, I don't need 4K so the one I purchased still has the 1.4 HDMI board, but for $1000 well worth the money IMO, it is a processor only though and you would need an external amp, which are easily found used as well. Here is a photo of my before and what Dirac will do(after) I can click anywhere on that orange line to add a correction tab and lower or raise it, but you can also edit the .txt files as well and save them and load them into Dirac.  |
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Post by arrogantyeti on Jan 28, 2019 15:57:25 GMT -5
For anybody interested, I've attached the Audyssey XT32 output here. Pretty solid output down to about 40hz (the left-most boundary is 20hz in the charts). Still a narrow bump near 40-50, but I've got the crossover at about 80 so that's a non-issue.   |
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Post by vcautokid on Jan 28, 2019 23:34:54 GMT -5
The T Zero is pretty darn good. In a modest sized room they will entertain no end. I like them allot. A great bedroom and office speaker would be the thing for me. You don't need lots of power. They aren't allot of money either.
Much to like here.
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