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Post by thxultra on Nov 20, 2019 13:34:27 GMT -5
I probably should have been clearer the whole device (processor or preamp) is being built by Datasat. My point is not many smaller companies build their own. I don't mean to nitpick, but ATI owns Datasat and looks to be the manufacturing end for all products. The HTP-1 sheet metal matches the ATI built Monolith amplifier. Obviously, ATI/Datasat has the acumen to build such products and these new product appear to be a new design. - Rich Ya saw that as well... Don't know many small companies like Emotiva building thier own ATMOS preamps from the ground up. The Monoprice looks like a nice unit but will be interesting to see reviews on how it sounds. I'm really impressed with the sound quality on my XMC-2 it is a huge step up from my old Marantz 7702MKii
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richb
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Post by richb on Nov 20, 2019 14:08:08 GMT -5
I don't mean to nitpick, but ATI owns Datasat and looks to be the manufacturing end for all products. The HTP-1 sheet metal matches the ATI built Monolith amplifier. Obviously, ATI/Datasat has the acumen to build such products and these new product appear to be a new design. - Rich Ya saw that as well... Don't know many small companies like Emotiva building thier own ATMOS preamps from the ground up. The Monoprice looks like a nice unit but will be interesting to see reviews on how it sounds. I'm really impressed with the sound quality on my XMC-2 it is a huge step up from my old Marantz 7702MKii Emotiva processors represent a complex and expensive investment that few companies would attempt. There is some work to go, but when they iron out the bugs and deliver Dirac, IMO it will be a force in the marketplace. Sound quality wise, I find the RMC-1 a step up from the XMC-1 and capable of providing truly excellent sound. - Rich
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Nov 20, 2019 22:54:21 GMT -5
Ya saw that as well... Don't know many small companies like Emotiva building thier own ATMOS preamps from the ground up. The Monoprice looks like a nice unit but will be interesting to see reviews on how it sounds. I'm really impressed with the sound quality on my XMC-2 it is a huge step up from my old Marantz 7702MKii Emotiva processors represent a complex and expensive investment that few companies would attempt. There is some work to go, but when they iron out the bugs and deliver Dirac, IMO it will be a force in the marketplace. Sound quality wise, I find the RMC-1 a step up from the XMC-1 and capable of providing truly excellent sound. - Rich Totally agree with the sound quality, even for my 2 rungs down XMC2. And for me all the issues appear to have been worked out in my simple setup. LGTV, ATV4K, Sony Blu-ray and XMC2 with 9 total channel amps and 5.1.4 Atmos. I even use google home mini to turn my TV on and off using Logitech Harmony.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Nov 21, 2019 0:26:34 GMT -5
Most of the innovative work is in the packaged DSPs that manufacturers base their products around. The display interfaces, TCP/IP interfaces, power supplies, HDMI, USB, and internet interfaces are supplied by the device manufacturer. When done right all manufacturers using the same DSP packages wind up with products with the exact same features and abilities. Packaged HDMI chips and boards and maybe even power supplies are also used. So the effort to bring a product to market is essentially applied engineering vs true development. It astounds me that it takes so much time to get these packages functioning. Some companies perhaps have engineering staffs adequate to the challenge and others do not. Either way, I think the engineering prowess required to apply engineer these types of products does not rise to the level of MIT doctorates. I think it is harder then we give them credit. A lot of the smaller companies don't build their own processors from the ground up. Look at McIntosh they use a Marantz. Monoprice is a Datasat. Emotiva actually builds the XMC-2, RMC-1 and RMC-1l themselves. Probably the only smaller company to do so. They don't have the design team even close to the size of Marantz so will take more time to workout issues. I'm pretty impressed with my XMC-2 for what I paid. Has some minor issues I hope they sort out but nothing major so far. Yes, I know there was a bit of back-and-forth about which companies are doing which parts, but that meant that everyone missed the main point. It's harder that it looks. A LOT harder. If you want to lay any dung at Emotiva's feet I suppose you could complain that they really had no idea how big a Cow Pie they were getting ready to step into and didn't have the proper ... "boots" (to continue the metaphor) to engage in Plowing The Field. Having dealt with Standards Bodies, Standards Specifications, Plug Fests, etc., myself, I have a lot of sympathy. Also, from everything I've been able to gather, HDMI, HDCP, etc. are laughably under-specified compared to the Ethernet and PCIe Specifications I work with. So I'll reiterate: Good KNOWLEDGEABLE QA People and Plug Fests are your best bet. Casey
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Post by cwt on Nov 21, 2019 5:57:43 GMT -5
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Post by tagmanz on Nov 23, 2019 22:20:52 GMT -5
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Post by cwt on Nov 24, 2019 6:43:21 GMT -5
That is one area you have to give credit to Monoprice. They seem to be very responsive to ideas/requests from public. The HTP-1 is shaping up to be a very feature rich processor. I like what I have been reading but I am still not sold on the looks (far and away prefer the RMC-1/L in that department) but it is probably a moot point as I am not sure it will be available to purchase here in NZ. Very quick out of the traps to please indeed and feature rich . Would prefer an OSD though due to where the pre pro resides not that that matters as moot too whether its distributed in Aus .. Now a JBL SP55 is much more upmarket looking if you haven't got a UGFL or similar . Sounds like a Lyngdorf
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Post by rickavmaniac on Dec 7, 2019 12:52:45 GMT -5
The HTP-1 as been postpone “again” now December 20 is the new target. I think its the third time they postpone the official release.
People on other forum are making fun of Emotiva about all our software delay. But I think more people now realize that launching a new product is way more complex than they thought.
The HTP-1 fans, beta tester and some executives at first swagger that they will not do the same errors... blablabla...
But at the end of the day, 3 miss date is exactly like other company. And wait for more because the product is not launch yet and when it will finally launch, watch the forum for early bugs and HDMI compatibility issues... It’s a new product so unexpected problems will raise for sure.
I dont say that to excuse Emotiva or trash on the HTP-1. I think it will be a great processor. I just want to put a little bit of perspective into Emotiva vs other company delays and problems.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Dec 7, 2019 14:14:15 GMT -5
The HTP-1 as been postpone “again” now December 20 is the new target. I think its the third time they postpone the official release. People on other forum are making fun of Emotiva about all our software delay. But I think more people now realize that launching a new product is way more complex than they thought. The HTP-1 fans, beta tester and some executives at first swagger that they will not do the same errors... blablabla... But at the end of the day, 3 miss date is exactly like other company. And wait for more because the product is not launch yet and when it will finally launch, watch the forum for early bugs and HDMI compatibility issues... It’s a new product so unexpected problems will raise for sure. I dont say that to excuse Emotiva or trash on the HTP-1. I think it will be a great processor. I just want to put a little bit of perspective into Emotiva vs other company delays and problems. LoL
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Post by dlaunde on Dec 7, 2019 21:19:25 GMT -5
The HTP-1 as been postpone “again” now December 20 is the new target. I think its the third time they postpone the official release. People on other forum are making fun of Emotiva about all our software delay. But I think more people now realize that launching a new product is way more complex than they thought. The HTP-1 fans, beta tester and some executives at first swagger that they will not do the same errors... blablabla... But at the end of the day, 3 miss date is exactly like other company. And wait for more because the product is not launch yet and when it will finally launch, watch the forum for early bugs and HDMI compatibility issues... It’s a new product so unexpected problems will raise for sure. I dont say that to excuse Emotiva or trash on the HTP-1. I think it will be a great processor. I just want to put a little bit of perspective into Emotiva vs other company delays and problems. Trust me. The "making fun of" is a lot less to do with delay of software release and more to do with inability to fix issues even during the second generation of a product (XMC 1 to 2). I would also bet HDMI issues and unexpected problems will be less than expected despite being a new product since it is built on/around existing parts already.
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Post by thrillcat on Dec 7, 2019 23:14:36 GMT -5
The HTP-1 as been postpone “again” now December 20 is the new target. I think its the third time they postpone the official release. People on other forum are making fun of Emotiva about all our software delay. But I think more people now realize that launching a new product is way more complex than they thought. The HTP-1 fans, beta tester and some executives at first swagger that they will not do the same errors... blablabla... But at the end of the day, 3 miss date is exactly like other company. And wait for more because the product is not launch yet and when it will finally launch, watch the forum for early bugs and HDMI compatibility issues... It’s a new product so unexpected problems will raise for sure. I dont say that to excuse Emotiva or trash on the HTP-1. I think it will be a great processor. I just want to put a little bit of perspective into Emotiva vs other company delays and problems. Monoprice missing dates by a couple weeks. Emotiva missing by a couple years. Not quite the same thing at all.
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Post by adaboy on Dec 7, 2019 23:27:16 GMT -5
The HTP-1 as been postpone “again” now December 20 is the new target. I think its the third time they postpone the official release. People on other forum are making fun of Emotiva about all our software delay. But I think more people now realize that launching a new product is way more complex than they thought. The HTP-1 fans, beta tester and some executives at first swagger that they will not do the same errors... blablabla... But at the end of the day, 3 miss date is exactly like other company. And wait for more because the product is not launch yet and when it will finally launch, watch the forum for early bugs and HDMI compatibility issues... It’s a new product so unexpected problems will raise for sure. I dont say that to excuse Emotiva or trash on the HTP-1. I think it will be a great processor. I just want to put a little bit of perspective into Emotiva vs other company delays and problems. Monoprice missing dates by a couple weeks. Emotiva missing by a couple years. Not quite the same thing at all. Years is right! They are still missing... Not even a workable product. I do have to admit I was one that was like just release the darn thing and fix the kinks later... Well if they wouldn't have done that it would still not be released
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Post by rickavmaniac on Dec 8, 2019 2:03:41 GMT -5
The HTP-1 as been postpone “again” now December 20 is the new target. I think its the third time they postpone the official release. People on other forum are making fun of Emotiva about all our software delay. But I think more people now realize that launching a new product is way more complex than they thought. The HTP-1 fans, beta tester and some executives at first swagger that they will not do the same errors... blablabla... But at the end of the day, 3 miss date is exactly like other company. And wait for more because the product is not launch yet and when it will finally launch, watch the forum for early bugs and HDMI compatibility issues... It’s a new product so unexpected problems will raise for sure. I dont say that to excuse Emotiva or trash on the HTP-1. I think it will be a great processor. I just want to put a little bit of perspective into Emotiva vs other company delays and problems. Monoprice missing dates by a couple weeks. Emotiva missing by a couple years. Not quite the same thing at all. How do you know the HTP-1 is missing dates by a couples ok weeks? The product is not release yet... Who know when and what will be the initial problems. The HTP-1 was talk about a year and half ago. They made a official announcement last January (a year ago) and forecast Q3 release. We are now Q4 and still nothing. Thats more than few weeks wait. Granted they wait before releasing there pre pro in hope to have a more stable product at launch. Something Emotive maybe should have done. I know Emotiva have more than is share of problems, I feel bad for peoples who bought the first batch one year ago and still waiting for a stable firmware and Dirac. I am not a Emotiva fan. I like there amp and really like my XMC-1 with Dirac it was a flawless unit for me. Hope they will stabilize there XMC-2/RMC-1 firmware soon and release Dirac ASAP. They seem to be a very small team full of good intentions but do have way underestimate what kind of work/time was needed for releasing a new platform. But they never force anybody to buy and there no question ask return policy is the best in the industry. Customer can return there processor anytime for a full refund. Wondering what will be the HTP-1 return policy? Anyway, my arguments was just that launching a new product base on a new platform is something that seem very long and complex. Emotiva for sure by far under estimate that work. But they are not along, Monoprice seem to have underestimated the work to be done too. And I really hope it will not take one year to stabilize. But for now nobody know because it’s not release yet. Also, I understand people mad at Emotiva but I just dont understand why praising the HTP-1 that is not release yet and nobody knows exactly when and how it will turn out.
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Post by cwt on Dec 8, 2019 8:19:29 GMT -5
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Post by thrillcat on Dec 8, 2019 8:50:14 GMT -5
Monoprice missing dates by a couple weeks. Emotiva missing by a couple years. Not quite the same thing at all. How do you know the HTP-1 is missing dates by a couples ok weeks? The product is not release yet... Who know when and what will be the initial problems. The HTP-1 was talk about a year and half ago. They made a official announcement last January (a year ago) and forecast Q3 release. We are now Q4 and still nothing. Thats more than few weeks wait. Granted they wait before releasing there pre pro in hope to have a more stable product at launch. Something Emotive maybe should have done. I know Emotiva have more than is share of problems, I feel bad for peoples who bought the first batch one year ago and still waiting for a stable firmware and Dirac. I am not a Emotiva fan. I like there amp and really like my XMC-1 with Dirac it was a flawless unit for me. Hope they will stabilize there XMC-2/RMC-1 firmware soon and release Dirac ASAP. They seem to be a very small team full of good intentions but do have way underestimate what kind of work/time was needed for releasing a new platform. But they never force anybody to buy and there no question ask return policy is the best in the industry. Customer can return there processor anytime for a full refund. Wondering what will be the HTP-1 return policy? Anyway, my arguments was just that launching a new product base on a new platform is something that seem very long and complex. Emotiva for sure by far under estimate that work. But they are not along, Monoprice seem to have underestimated the work to be done too. And I really hope it will not take one year to stabilize. But for now nobody know because it’s not release yet. Also, I understand people mad at Emotiva but I just dont understand why praising the HTP-1 that is not release yet and nobody knows exactly when and how it will turn out. I’m not praising Monoprice, I’ve vowed to never purchase another thing, big or small, from them after last experiences. My point was that you’re talking about QUANTITY of delays, instead of LENGTH, which is the important metric. If I delay a product 14 times, one day at a time, because I’m waiting for something from a vendor, first of all it’s terrible communication, but second of all, it’s still only two weeks. Are you saying that makes me less qualified in the industry space than if I were to delay it 3 times for 6 months each, all after a bunch of vague communications that implied it would’ve been out a few years before?
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Post by dlaunde on Dec 8, 2019 9:45:38 GMT -5
Not to mention the extensive beta testing Monoprice let actual users do AND provide feedback that they then incorporated into their final product (such as changing where EQ filters can be applied on top of Dirac based on feedback)
Will there be small hiccups to account for once more people with wider ranges of gear get these? Yea. Of course. But from what I've seen from the praise of the beta testers regarding their communication with Monoprice during their testing period and providing feedback...I don't see the type of blind eye or passing the blame as Emotiva is comfortable with.
The one thing that changed my mind about the XMC2 and not waiting for the next firmware release was Emotiva blatantly saying they aren't a software company in a tone that implied "deal with our programming shortcoming" in a day and age where software plays an integral role in how a device like this operates. You would have thought after the XMC1 they may have decided to put some effort into overhauling their software, even if it meant bumping up the price a little. Instead it seems like they are content on triaging an arterial bleed with a bandaid over and over.
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Post by petew on Dec 8, 2019 10:11:02 GMT -5
I see Monolith as a tiny boutique brand within a larger mass market company. Not unlike Harman within Samsung. The few details that have come out from Marc Alexander (limited by NDA) are very encouraging. The HTP-1 will ship with working Dirac and six presets. As stated by others, they have made changes to operation suggested by beta testers. They seem to have a road map for adding features with future firmware.
Monolith was smart to partner with MDS and ATI. A processor is too complex for a small team to build 100% in house.
What is the chance that Emotiva will have a functional processor with Dirac before Monolith? I'm betting on Monolith.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 8, 2019 10:26:34 GMT -5
Will there be small hiccups to account for once more people with wider ranges of gear get these? Yea. Of course. But from what I've seen from the praise of the beta testers regarding their communication with Monoprice during their testing period and providing feedback. I've been keeping apprised of the AVS thread that Mark Alexander is in over on AVS, are there other beta testers in that thread or can I read their insights elsewhere. Curious what these other beta testers experiences are with the HTP-1.
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richb
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Post by richb on Dec 8, 2019 16:55:30 GMT -5
Will there be small hiccups to account for once more people with wider ranges of gear get these? Yea. Of course. But from what I've seen from the praise of the beta testers regarding their communication with Monoprice during their testing period and providing feedback. I've been keeping apprised of the AVS thread that Mark Alexander is in over on AVS, are there other beta testers in that thread or can I read their insights elsewhere. Curious what these other beta testers experiences are with the HTP-1. I suspect they are finding problems or the unit would not be delayed. - Rich
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Post by petew on Dec 8, 2019 18:17:27 GMT -5
Marc Alexander said he thinks it's ready for release (firmware) now. The monolith rep said they're doing final silkscreen and powdercoat on metal parts before they can kick off assembly. Manual will be posted within the next week or so, per monolith guy.
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