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Post by mikoz on Jan 8, 2019 12:07:18 GMT -5
All these people complaining about the remote have obviously not spent much time with true high-end audiophile equipment. The remote for my Jolida tube amp is half the size and weighs just as much as the XMC-1 and RMC-1 remotes, and it only has 4 (identically-sized) buttons. I think I'll create a cheap, plastic remote from the standard remotes that Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, et al buy their hardware from, code it for the XMC units, mark it up 1000% and have a nice little side business. Come on.... backlighting is pretty common... you're actually going to dispute that point? Who would not want the option of backlighting? A tube amp is a different animal than a pre-pro.., find me a high-end pre-pro that doesn't have a remote with backlighting and logical placement of things like volume keys.
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Post by thrillcat on Jan 8, 2019 12:21:51 GMT -5
All these people complaining about the remote have obviously not spent much time with true high-end audiophile equipment. The remote for my Jolida tube amp is half the size and weighs just as much as the XMC-1 and RMC-1 remotes, and it only has 4 (identically-sized) buttons. I think I'll create a cheap, plastic remote from the standard remotes that Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, et al buy their hardware from, code it for the XMC units, mark it up 1000% and have a nice little side business. Come on.... backlighting is pretty common... you're actually going to dispute that point? Who would not want the option of backlighting? A tube amp is a different animal than a pre-pro.., find me a high-end pre-pro that doesn't have a remote with backlighting and logical placement of things like volume keys. Well, the Storm Audio processors don't even come with a remote. The NuForce processor remote has no backlight. I'm sure there are more.
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Post by thrillcat on Jan 8, 2019 12:37:34 GMT -5
Come on.... backlighting is pretty common... you're actually going to dispute that point? Who would not want the option of backlighting? A tube amp is a different animal than a pre-pro.., find me a high-end pre-pro that doesn't have a remote with backlighting and logical placement of things like volume keys. Well, the Storm Audio processors don't even come with a remote. The NuForce processor remote has no backlight. I'm sure there are more. Storm Audio: No Remote Krell Foundation: No Remote NuForce: No Backlight McIntosh: No Backlight Parasound: No Backlight
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 8, 2019 12:39:04 GMT -5
I just swapped out the legendary denon Avp pre-pro for the rmc-1 I have a few initial thoughts after an hour of playing with it: 1. Build quality. It’s just average, less than you get with something like marantz or denon. Volume knob in particular feels flimsy and cheap and definitely lacking that satisfying feel you get from other units in this price point. Unit is very light... seems to speak to power supply quality. Outer casing is thin and not very rigid. 2. Remote. Hands down the worst remote I’ve ever used. No backlight, illogical keyboard layout (volume is in odd place, etc), keys are all sized the same (the rest of the world has realized that volume keys need to be bigger and should be at the bottom of the remote), no tactile differences in keys. Feels terrible in your hands...it’s not contoured to fit a hand. It’s heavy, and should survive a fall...thats about the only desirable thing about it. Odd batteries used....why... why not use AA or AAA? 3. Popping and clicking all the time. I played a dsd from an Oppo 203 and it produced such a series of pops and clicks that it caused the amp to turn off. Everything you do or modify seems to cause pops and clicks. 4. Source changing takes forever....over 25 seconds sometimes. I’ve also had to do multiple reboots sometimes to wake it up before it will properly sync to the hdmi source. I am using the latest beta firmware. 5. On screen display looks like something from the 90s. It’s actually worse than the 2nd zone display of the denon from 2008. It’s also very slow to respond to key presses. You can tell it’s getting the remote code and not responding because the front of the unit shows the remote code being received yet nothing happens. Sometimes takes 4 or more remote clicks to get it to respond. Osd cannot be moved to a different location on screen. Can’t seem to get volume to display on screen. I’ve never seen something so odd when selecting or deselecting checkboxes, it’s the most unintuitive thing I’ve seen on a receiver. 6. Firmware upgrades over usb only? Why not over the internet directly? Why are the firmware updates placed on a post in the forum on some random tiny URL and not available on the company website? Seeems very...unofficial. 7. After all this time, still no Dirac at launch. First of all, this entire thread is completely unnecessary because a thread for owners to post already exists. What you said is not wrong, but why a completely new thread? It just causes confusion. Second, there is nothing mentioned in this thread that hasn't already been discussed in great detail in the other thread. Nothing new here. Third, since you did find your own situation important enough to make your own thread, and started it off with nothing but negativity, you come across as a troll, and the blue kool-aiders here aren't going to like you for that, even though WHAT you say is 100% truth. Forth, I blame yourself and Emotiva both, for the remote. It's basically the same remote that has come with the XMC-1 for years. This has been mentioned, so shame on you for not doing a bit of research to make sure you would like it before buying. BUT, it is basically fact that some people LOVE the remote and others HATE the remote, with the only in-between being people who simply put it in a drawer and never use it (which is probably the highest percentage). Where I completely blame Emotiva for their usual incompleteness is, why in the hell is there not a good close up picture of the remote on their web page? If there is it's not easily forthcoming. Surely no one can argue that there should be a picture of the remote on the RMC-1 page? There is a picture of the microphone, but not a picture of the remote? Give me a break Emotiva. Fifth, I have no knowledge of the actual RMC-1, but there are a lot of people here quick to dismiss the build quality of Denon Marantz etc. So they will be surprised by this. However, people here also RAVE about Oppo products, like their is no competition. Well, here's where I agree with you. I own both an Oppo-105 and a Denon 3930ci. While the Oppo is quite nice, the Denon is far superior in terms of build quality, and sound performance IMO. Sixth, you better type quick, because this thread is going to get locked for sure.
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Post by lrobertson on Jan 8, 2019 12:41:52 GMT -5
If it was hardware for them all I’d expect to get paid shipping back as a recall. But hopefully it’s just temporary software issues and returns are open for a while till Dirac is supported. Seeing how the Acurus is the next affordable comparison to the RMC-1 if you are thinking of buying something else like a Marantz what the hell did you buy the RMC-1 in the first place for? Sounds like you’re just too impatient to wait for the new Monoprice, XMC-2, or RMC-2 so I can see why there would be huge impatience on the software as well for the RMC-1. For those of you that are going to actually return and buy a comparable receiver such as the acurus or better I doubt we’ll hear as much complaining from them especially about paying a return shipping fee as their time is too valuable to waist publicly trying to shame Emotiva. Disappointment I’m sure but outright continued bad talking I doubt. Basically most RMC-1 buyers just have to be in for the ride or hold off on purchase. It’s even worse to hear from non owners as if you want someone else complaining who isn’t even dealing with the issues and they still sound like they are suffering through them with those that are.
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Post by brubacca on Jan 8, 2019 13:05:04 GMT -5
Temporary software issues are only that if/until they find a defect in the hardware used. I got burned by this with The Outlaw Audio 970 processor, which ironically is what made me seek out Emotiva.
I only buy a product anymore that works the way I want it to when I order it. I don't count on future updates (Outlaw) or future upgrade options (B&K) anymore.
I am not saying that this is right for everyone, but that's how I am.
If you are like me you should wait it out for the bugs to be fixed (or not).
Good Luck on the thrilling remote discussion.
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Post by brutiarti on Jan 8, 2019 13:13:03 GMT -5
i would say the opposite, most do some dont (those that dont are not reputable) I picked Marantz at random (well not so random since their top unit is a favorite comparison model) and looked at their warranty policy. At least for US customers, you are responsible for return shipping and they will pay to ship it back to you. I think this is also how Emotiva works their policy. So do we add marantz to your"not reputable" list? ATI Amplifiers is 90 day (extended if bought at a authorized dealer) and also require prepaid shipping. Another one to the "not reputable" list. Krell, Denon, Sony,.. all "non reputable" I can go on.... Marantz is not a direct to consumer company Are you mixing warranty vs trial?
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Post by richter250 on Jan 8, 2019 13:58:49 GMT -5
My initial impressions:
1. Sounds fantastic, all modes, even without Dirac. 2-10. See above
11. The remote is great. It is what an audiophile remote should be. Heavy, solid, substantial, and a little difficult to use. Perfect. Lights and ergonomics and such are for universal remotes. 12. Volume knob is disappointing. Why not make it out of the same material as the remote? It really is kind of a sad excuse for a knob. 13. The rest of the problems will be fixed (soon I hope?) with firmware updates. I can wait because of points 1-10!
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Post by donh50 on Jan 8, 2019 14:13:08 GMT -5
11. The remote is great. It is what an audiophile remote should be. Heavy, solid, substantial, and a little difficult to use. Perfect. Lights and ergonomics and such are for universal remotes. I bet you like command-line UNIX, too...
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 8, 2019 14:24:40 GMT -5
I bet you like command-line UNIX, too... Definitely, but only after $set -o vi
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Post by donh50 on Jan 8, 2019 14:31:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the reminder, had forgotten just how much I hated vi... Yup, I'm a simple dumb GUI editor boy now!
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Post by mikoz on Jan 8, 2019 15:28:45 GMT -5
All these people complaining about the remote have obviously not spent much time with true high-end audiophile equipment. The remote for my Jolida tube amp is half the size and weighs just as much as the XMC-1 and RMC-1 remotes, and it only has 4 (identically-sized) buttons. I think I'll create a cheap, plastic remote from the standard remotes that Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, et al buy their hardware from, code it for the XMC units, mark it up 1000% and have a nice little side business. Come on.... you can't make an argument against backlighting. It's like buying a car with drum brakes... it's just assumed we've moved past that. You also can't compare a tube amp's remote to a pre-pro. Show me one pre-pro that's "high end" that has a volume key randomly placed in the layout with buttons that are neither sized differently nor different in feel...... That's not "high end"... it's silly.
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Post by mikoz on Jan 8, 2019 15:36:57 GMT -5
I just swapped out the legendary denon Avp pre-pro for the rmc-1 I have a few initial thoughts after an hour of playing with it: 1. Build quality. It’s just average, less than you get with something like marantz or denon. Volume knob in particular feels flimsy and cheap and definitely lacking that satisfying feel you get from other units in this price point. Unit is very light... seems to speak to power supply quality. Outer casing is thin and not very rigid. 2. Remote. Hands down the worst remote I’ve ever used. No backlight, illogical keyboard layout (volume is in odd place, etc), keys are all sized the same (the rest of the world has realized that volume keys need to be bigger and should be at the bottom of the remote), no tactile differences in keys. Feels terrible in your hands...it’s not contoured to fit a hand. It’s heavy, and should survive a fall...thats about the only desirable thing about it. Odd batteries used....why... why not use AA or AAA? 3. Popping and clicking all the time. I played a dsd from an Oppo 203 and it produced such a series of pops and clicks that it caused the amp to turn off. Everything you do or modify seems to cause pops and clicks. 4. Source changing takes forever....over 25 seconds sometimes. I’ve also had to do multiple reboots sometimes to wake it up before it will properly sync to the hdmi source. I am using the latest beta firmware. 5. On screen display looks like something from the 90s. It’s actually worse than the 2nd zone display of the denon from 2008. It’s also very slow to respond to key presses. You can tell it’s getting the remote code and not responding because the front of the unit shows the remote code being received yet nothing happens. Sometimes takes 4 or more remote clicks to get it to respond. Osd cannot be moved to a different location on screen. Can’t seem to get volume to display on screen. I’ve never seen something so odd when selecting or deselecting checkboxes, it’s the most unintuitive thing I’ve seen on a receiver. 6. Firmware upgrades over usb only? Why not over the internet directly? Why are the firmware updates placed on a post in the forum on some random tiny URL and not available on the company website? Seeems very...unofficial. 7. After all this time, still no Dirac at launch. First of all, this entire thread is completely unnecessary because a thread for owners to post already exists. What you said is not wrong, but why a completely new thread? It just causes confusion. Second, there is nothing mentioned in this thread that hasn't already been discussed in great detail in the other thread. Nothing new here. Third, since you did find your own situation important enough to make your own thread, and started it off with nothing but negativity, you come across as a troll, and the blue kool-aiders here aren't going to like you for that, even though WHAT you say is 100% truth. Forth, I blame yourself and Emotiva both, for the remote. It's basically the same remote that has come with the XMC-1 for years. This has been mentioned, so shame on you for not doing a bit of research to make sure you would like it before buying. BUT, it is basically fact that some people LOVE the remote and others HATE the remote, with the only in-between being people who simply put it in a drawer and never use it (which is probably the highest percentage). Where I completely blame Emotiva for their usual incompleteness is, why in the hell is there not a good close up picture of the remote on their web page? If there is it's not easily forthcoming. Surely no one can argue that there should be a picture of the remote on the RMC-1 page? There is a picture of the microphone, but not a picture of the remote? Give me a break Emotiva. Fifth, I have no knowledge of the actual RMC-1, but there are a lot of people here quick to dismiss the build quality of Denon Marantz etc. So they will be surprised by this. However, people here also RAVE about Oppo products, like their is no competition. Well, here's where I agree with you. I own both an Oppo-105 and a Denon 3930ci. While the Oppo is quite nice, the Denon is far superior in terms of build quality, and sound performance IMO. Sixth, you better type quick, because this thread is going to get locked for sure. Sorry, not trying to troll. And I didn't know there was a different thread... honestly. I'll look around for the other thread. Yes, you're pretty much right, some of it is my fault. But in my defense I didn't see a pic of the remote anywhere, and I didn't know it was "the same as the XMC-1". There's no one who could honestly say that the RMC-1 is in the same league as a high-end Denon or Oppo in terms of build quality and "feel". Just turn the volume knob, or any knob, on one of those and then do the same on the RMC-1. Then, pick it up. It wasn't all negative... just my initial impressions. When you cause your amp to turn off just by changing a source on your pre-pro and waiting 25 seconds for source to sync, how would you initially react? Would you be happy? I guess some of that came through. Finally, the remote stuff. People are making the point that the remote is "classic high end". Well, isn't the motto of Emotiva to "rethink HIEND", heck it even says that when you start it.
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Post by thrillcat on Jan 8, 2019 15:44:11 GMT -5
The point is, nobody buys a $5000 16-channel processor for the remote. It's like buying a $75,000 BMW and complaining about the keychain.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 8, 2019 16:02:59 GMT -5
The point is, nobody buys a $5000 16-channel processor for the remote. It's like buying a $75,000 BMW and complaining about the keychain. Bad comparison I'm afraid. Plenty of crappy key FOB's on hi-end cars, and there are NOT after market generic ones. People complained for years about BMW's knob and their control system, what's it called, idrive? Worst piece of junk on the planet. Took them years to make it better. Oh, hunh, now that I think about it, maybe Emotiva is just following BMW's lead with their cheap feeling knob and horrible working control system?
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Post by mikoz on Jan 8, 2019 16:04:56 GMT -5
The point is, nobody buys a $5000 16-channel processor for the remote. It's like buying a $75,000 BMW and complaining about the keychain. Ok, I can tell the remote thing is a hot button issue. I didn't realize that. But, come on, for most cars you never even handle the keychain expect to transfer it to/from your pocket. Maybe it's me, but I spend a lot of time with a remote in my hand. I do agree that a universal remote is obviously the only solution.
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 8, 2019 16:05:52 GMT -5
Welcome to the world of Emotiva. Buy a newly released product and help iron out problems. Eventually you will probably have a fine component at a fraction of the cost of competing products from the mass world wide producers. You should have known that because it is all over the internet that Emotiva, especially in processors, has been known for buggy releases but also has shown determination in fixing issues as they show up. I have chosen to wait out the initial surge of problems, as it appears so should have you. The same used to apply with the old Heathkit and Dynaco products except they shipped in a box of parts. At least Emotiva products are preassembled as they must be due to the impossibility of amateurs in soldering complex chips to boards and expecting them to ever work. Emotiva is short on manpower but long on conceptualization and determination. Patience, it will all work out and you will have saved $5000 to $15,000 over matching capability products!
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 8, 2019 16:10:41 GMT -5
Sorry, not trying to troll. And I didn't know there was a different thread... honestly. I'll look around for the other thread. Yes, you're pretty much right, some of it is my fault. But in my defense I didn't see a pic of the remote anywhere, and I didn't know it was "the same as the XMC-1". There's no one who could honestly say that the RMC-1 is in the same league as a high-end Denon or Oppo in terms of build quality and "feel". Just turn the volume knob, or any knob, on one of those and then do the same on the RMC-1. Then, pick it up. It wasn't all negative... just my initial impressions. When you cause your amp to turn off just by changing a source on your pre-pro and waiting 25 seconds for source to sync, how would you initially react? Would you be happy? I guess some of that came through. Finally, the remote stuff. People are making the point that the remote is "classic high end". Well, isn't the motto of Emotiva to "rethink HIEND", heck it even says that when you start it. Thread is over here. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/53933/official-rmc-1-owners-threadI'm not knocking you for anything you said. Most of it is either very close, or spot on, at least at the moment. The remote thing is a preference however, as it appears to at least work (if not for the delays). I'm disappointed to hear the front knob feels cheap though. I have asked this exact question since the very first pictures were posted, and have asked several times since, and only gotten ONE, just ONE real answer as to how it feels. Perhaps now I know the reason? And now.......wait.....wait for it.....the avalanche of blue kool-aide posters coming on and saying who cares about the knob, nobody uses the front panel anymore, quit being obtuse and old school. To which I say hogwash, I use mine all the time.
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Post by thrillcat on Jan 8, 2019 16:11:16 GMT -5
The point is, nobody buys a $5000 16-channel processor for the remote. It's like buying a $75,000 BMW and complaining about the keychain. Bad comparison I'm afraid. Plenty of crappy key FOB's on hi-end cars, and there are NOT after market generic ones. People complained for years about BMW's knob and their control system, what's it called, idrive? Worst piece of junk on the planet. Took them years to make it better. Oh, hunh, now that I think about it, maybe Emotiva is just following BMW's lead with their cheap feeling knob and horrible working control system? I said keyCHAIN. It's a (*$&%( accessory, and even more so as you go up the "luxury ladder." You get one that works, and you swap it for one you like. I, for one, am happy that Emotiva includes a remote that is durable and built to last, even while 99% of the time it is in a drawer in my rack. I use a NEEO daily, but when I do dig out the XMC-1 remote, I appreciate the build quality.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 8, 2019 16:22:04 GMT -5
I said keyCHAIN. It's a (*$&%( accessory, and even more so as you go up the "luxury ladder." You get one that works, and you swap it for one you like. That's an even worse comparison. A remote control is nothing like a key chain. Key chains themselves can be completely unnecessary. A remote control and a key FOB are necessary, at least in today's world. +1. I hear ya. I remember the first time I picked up an all aluminum Classe' remote and was like WOW, this thing is awesome. BUT, that was until I actually started using it. The buttons were squishy and the response time was horrible. Skipping tracks on their CD player took what seemed like ages. My Sony blew the actual performance away, even though the remote was plastic. But hey, I still have it, so even made out of plastic can be successful.
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