|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Apr 13, 2019 17:51:38 GMT -5
I had the pleasure last evening of a visit with emotivate. He was generous enough to invite me over to hear his Definitive Technology surround sound system. Before I describe the sound, let me tell you about the room. Most unusually, there are two rooms appended to the listining room - one on either side. A kitchen and breakfast nook opens to the right of the listening space, and a sun room to the left. There are no walls to reflect side echoes for about 15 feet or more. The listening area itself has a high cathedral ceiling with a loft opening upstairs on the right. The system consisted of an Emotiva processor, a pair of XPA-1 (generation one) amps for the right and left front speakers, and an Emotiva XPA-5 (again, generation one) for the remaining center and right/left middle/rear speakers. All speakers are made by Definitive Technolog. The front right and left speakers were a pair of Def-Tech BP7001 (if I remember) with self-powered subwoofers built in. A different generation of 7001 speakers were used in the "middle" (actually firing more or less forward from the rear wall), and a pair of Def-Tech rear dispersing speakers. I don't know what the center channel was, except for the fact that it was a Def-Tech too. So how did this sound? Flat out amazing! The system could play very softly all the way up to "live music levels" without losing detail or resolution. Maybe the lack of side wall echoes was the magic trick, but the soundstage was absolutely HUGE! Additionally, the built-in subs balanced just perfectly with the remainder of the sound. We listened to some CD material in "faux surround sound," and it sounded MARVELOUS! The "show piece" that he played first for me was "Crimson and Clover" by Tommy James & the Shondells. I've never heard it sound like THAT before, and the effect was stunning. Now the imaging wasn't as precise as one might get from a more "point source" type of speakers that would have more direct sound and less room sound, but in the space where the big DefTechs were, I'd almost rather have the OMG soundstage! I noted also that Morrow brand cables were in use along with some home-made power cords. Did they contribute to the sound? I can't say since we didn't do any mix and match comparisons. But whether they made huge differences or not, the sound was some of the most spacious I've ever heard. So thanks to Mr. emotivate - a generous member of the Lounge who was kind enough to share his system with me. I appreciate the invitation, and have a newfound respect for Definitive Technology speakers.    |
|
|
|
Post by simpleman68 on Apr 13, 2019 18:03:27 GMT -5
Really nice to hear about different rigs and the rooms they're in. It's amazing how much difference a room can make with any setup.
It's also great to meet up with other audio nuts and share setup and get opinions.
Wish I was there to enjoy it with you. I've only heard DefTech in sound rooms other than their center channel I have in our 2 ch room. (used for kids movies) It does an excellent job of handling the extra load of center channel duties during movies and actually keeps up with the Legacy towers I have (although poorly voice matched) Scott
|
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,086
|
Post by klinemj on Apr 13, 2019 18:12:09 GMT -5
One time, we set up some Avid speakers beside a pool and hooked them up to a killer amp for a party (college...we did crazy things). I was amazed how good the speakers sounded with no walls at all. I always liked those Avids in a room, but with no room to hold them - amazing.
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by repeetavx on Apr 13, 2019 18:38:57 GMT -5
As an owner of Def Tech speakers, I'm well aware of the lack of respect these speakers seem to experience. Yes, they do give up a little imaging to get the huge sound stage. On the other hand you didn't mention missing any detail or dynamics did you? The "micro dynamics" and detail is up there with the best speakers.
I'm in my second decade with my Def Tech speakers, and I enjoy their ability to bring the venue or sound stage into your listening area.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Apr 13, 2019 19:24:06 GMT -5
So glad you went Boomzilla. Really. And what an awesome invitation to begin with. One of these days klinemj will hopefully get to do the same. I'm 100% sure the room etc "adjusted" the sound one way or the other. But your overall impression/description is very close to what I would have predicted. There is always a trade between imaging and large sound stage. My personal opinion is that imaging isn't based much in reality, mostly sound mix fakery, hence why I greatly appreciate a large live sounding soundstage. Imaging is "fun", but its not usually "real". The bi-polar nature of Def Techs fully accept this trade, and I'm all for it. As another asked, did you miss any detail? I think you probably did, some. But what about openness and airiness? The bonus to the built in bass is that there is no mismatch or blending with a sub. It just "does." Optimum sub placement? Probably not, but with music, that's not as important to me as the pure smooth unlocateable cross. Want more properly placed bass for movies, then get separate subs. Its the best of both worlds. And you can set a processor up to switch back and forth automatically. Choice! Def Techs are not the optimum 2 channel speaker. They may not even be the ultimate HT speaker system. But for the price and what they do, all compromises considered, they strike a very good balance for me and our uses. I will probably never change. Glad you finally got to hear some. Thanks for going. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Apr 13, 2019 19:51:56 GMT -5
I think that those Def-Techs sound like Magnepans with Klipsch-like dynamics. No - I didn't miss any detail. In fact, the rig was one of the most detailed I've heard, nearly rivaling my friend Russell's rig. Note that emotivate had his speakers up on small, home-made stands. He said it improved the bass a lot. For movie use, he had a 15" sub that was used in conjunction with the Def-Techs, but mentioned for music, that it wasn't needed (I agree wholeheartedly). And it was clear, like with both Russell and garbulky, that emotivate is a "tweaker." He's fine-tuned almost every aspect of his system - some of the few things I noticed were: Very heavy-gauge home-made power cords with silver-plated copper and special plugs Special electrical sockets in home-made break out boxes Use of three independent electrical circuits to power the gear VERY careful placement of the speakers to optimize the soundstage Highly-unusual Morrow brand interconnects that emotivate said made a huge difference Use of a cheap Monster Cable surge suppressor (said it sounded much better than his far more expensive Monster) Etc. In other words, sound MATTERS to emotivate, and you can tell from listening to that system. Really! |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Apr 13, 2019 19:59:13 GMT -5
As an owner of Def Tech speakers, I'm well aware of the lack of respect these speakers seem to experience.. I honestly think that the DefTech lack of respect issue has nothing to do with their sound, and everything to do with Def-Tech's ludicrous specifications. 14 Hz output for an inexpensive sub, for example. Yes, there's absolutely no question that the cone DOES move if a 14hz signal is fed to their sub, but the amplitude (that DefTech studiously does NOT publish) is probably something like -50dB from the amplitude at 80 Hz. Such laughable hyperbole means that DefTech gets their disrespect the old fashioned way - they earn it. That said, it's a shame that DefTech shoots themselves in the foot with their specs since their speakers and subs are (mostly) a very good deal for the money. |
|
|
|
Post by emotivate on Apr 14, 2019 0:24:52 GMT -5
First off let me say I have dusted my gear before, just not recently,LOL. It was fun to have Boomzilla over to the man cave for a listen, and a very nice review as well ! It's always enjoyable to have other HiFi aficionado's enjoy your set up, and efforts to get it that way. I might add the front 3 speakers are the same as Amped has for sale (BP 7000's and CLR 3000 center) and who's thread I helped hi jack originally. The Def Tec's do need some room to breath, not sure my odd shape room is optimum and in fact has a large bass suck out. All the drivers are the same size in my 7.6 set up and the current hungry drivers fed with enough quality juice and control to make them sing,but as Boom has experienced and pointed out, I'm a tweaker. I have experienced a huge jump in sound quality replacing ALL the wires,speaker,I/C's,power cords,etc,on ALL my components with silver plated copper wiring. Starting at the wall with audiophile A/C outlets, replacing hard wired power cords, silver fuses,speaker outputs,IEC connectors everywhere I can, getting rid of brass especially. I've made my own SPC power cords and they sound great, my friend has power wire made in Sweden that I use with extra thick silver plating that has made the biggest leap in SQ I have experienced to date. Each time I replaced brass or copper wires with a SPC component, my system sounded a bit better, and not mixing the two is best. Scott, Mark or other forum members drop me a message if you want a listen. I agree with Boomzilla the DT's do sound a bit like the Giant Maggies with the long ribbon tweater I auditioned once, only with a holographic, and much more dynamic, huge surround sound field. I chuckle too when seeing the power ratings on the amps, but when they do what they do, who cares, Cheers !
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Apr 14, 2019 1:14:12 GMT -5
First off let me say I have dusted my gear before, just not recently,LOL. It was fun to have Boomzilla over to the man cave for a listen, and a very nice review as well ! It's always enjoyable to have other HiFi aficionado's enjoy your set up, and efforts to get it that way. I might add the front 3 speakers are the same as Amped has for sale (BP 7000's and CLR 3000 center) and who's thread I helped hi jack originally. The Def Tec's do need some room to breath, not sure my odd shape room is optimum and in fact has a large bass suck out. All the drivers are the same size in my 7.6 set up and the current hungry drivers fed with enough quality juice and control to make them sing,but as Boom has experienced and pointed out, I'm a tweaker. I have experienced a huge jump in sound quality replacing ALL the wires,speaker,I/C's,power cords,etc,on ALL my components with silver plated copper wiring. Starting at the wall with audiophile A/C outlets, replacing hard wired power cords, silver fuses,speaker outputs,IEC connectors everywhere I can, getting rid of brass especially. I've made my own SPC power cords and they sound great, my friend has power wire made in Sweden that I use with extra thick silver plating that has made the biggest leap in SQ I have experienced to date. Each time I replaced brass or copper wires with a SPC component, my system sounded a bit better, and not mixing the two is best. Scott, Mark or other forum members drop me a message if you want a listen. I agree with Boomzilla the DT's do sound a bit like the Giant Maggies with the long ribbon tweater I auditioned once, only with a holographic, and much more dynamic, huge surround sound field. I chuckle too when seeing the power ratings on the amps, but when they do what they do, who cares, Cheers ! How cool is your setup?! I see you have my favorite amps - the XPA-1 ! I have very little experience with wires and power capabilities. The little I have I haven't noticed a difference so I don't know what the sound would be like in a system where it improves. So Polk, Golden Ear and DT are made by the same guy right? I've heard Polk audio speakers but never heard the other two. Glad to see you are enjoying your setup! |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Apr 14, 2019 3:15:07 GMT -5
Although you don't much "tweak" with wires or accessories, garbulky, you're the tweakiest I've met with speaker positioning and room treatment. I know of nobody else who covered his entire living room, including the windows, with eggshell foam to tame echoes! And it's most interesting that you, who don't worry much about wiring or power, and emotivate, who doesn't worry much about room treatment, both achieve really EXCELLENT sound in your homes via different methods. You, by the way, garbulky, would absolutely LOVE the power and sound staging of emotivate's system! I think that he would find yours a revelation as well... |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Apr 14, 2019 3:18:32 GMT -5
First off let me say I have dusted my gear before, just not recently,LOL.. The "dust" in the pictures is not all dust. Some of it's an artifact of using an iPhone camera with a flash and then having to doctor the photos extensively in Photoshop Elements to increase the brightness. Sorry for the dusty appearance - The gear didn't seem dusty when I saw it! |
|
|
|
Post by 1960broookwood on Apr 14, 2019 7:46:56 GMT -5
So Polk, Golden Ear and DT are made by the same guy right? I've heard Polk audio speakers but never heard the other two. Glad to see you are enjoying your setup! Not necessarily. Sandy Gross was a co-founder of Polk in 1972 and left in 1988. Co-founded DefTech in 1990 and retired in 2009. Then started GoldenEar in 2010. When we moved into a new house the Magnapans that I had grown to love wouldn't work well in the smaller space so after considerable searching DefTechs became the speaker of choice. Nice review--Thanks for posting |
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Apr 14, 2019 12:36:33 GMT -5
One time, we set up some Avid speakers beside a pool and hooked them up to a killer amp for a party (college...we did crazy things). I was amazed how good the speakers sounded with no walls at all. I always liked those Avids in a room, but with no room to hold them - amazing. Mark I remember Avid. Very good speakers designed by Victor Brociner. I had the indoor models 103 and 105. |
|
|
|
Post by repeetavx on Apr 14, 2019 16:14:59 GMT -5
I honestly think that the DefTech lack of respect issue has nothing to do with their sound, and everything to do with Def-Tech's ludicrous specifications. 14 Hz output for an inexpensive sub, for example. Yes, there's absolutely no question that the cone DOES move if a 14hz signal is fed to their sub, but the amplitude (that DefTech studiously does NOT publish) is probably something like -50dB from the amplitude at 80 Hz. Such laughable hyperbole means that DefTech gets their disrespect the old fashioned way - they earn it. That said, it's a shame that DefTech shoots themselves in the foot with their specs since their speakers and subs are (mostly) a very good deal for the money. So you mean (sniff, sniff) that my speakers don't "go down" to 18hz? At least that's what the spec is on them. I suspected when I bought them, and confirmed when I listened to them, that such claims are marketing hyperbole. But because of the detail, tone accuracy, dynamics, and sound stage, I've treasured them ever since. Since my BP-30s are one of the models that don't have the built in sub-woofers, I wasn't all that disappointed. Actually I'm rather impressed by their bass response. One quirk that I've noticed as I've tweaked on the system. Is that if you "unload" the bass with a crossover that the speaker will sound thin. It was designed to take the full range and requires it to "load" the speaker transmission cavity to keep the tone balanced. |
|
|
|
Post by emotivate on Apr 14, 2019 21:29:10 GMT -5
"How cool is your setup?! I see you have my favorite amps - the XPA-1 ! I have very little experience with wires and power capabilities. The little I have I haven't noticed a difference so I don't know what the sound would be like in a system where it improves." Hi Garbulky, the XPA-1's do rock and even Big Dan once said it was the best sounding of the Emo amps, thanks for the nice comment. If you have a desire to hear my setup and talk of things HiFi or tweaks even, let me know and we can arrange it, Boomzilla too, we are all neighbors. Anyone interested in an inexpensive but substantial tweak that will open your eyes, try an Acme audiophile A/C outlet, or any of their products.Good stuff, John Curl uses these ! www.acmeaudiolabs.com/index.html |
|
|
|
Post by repeetavx on Apr 15, 2019 15:18:34 GMT -5
Hi emotivate,
Well I noticed that you're using Morrow Audio cables, so I ran over to their website and checked them out. Having owned a couple of high end brands of audio cables, I've formed some conclusions about how different configurations can affect sound (Sorry guys, I know most of you don't believe this). Since I find Mr. Morrows reasoning sound, I've just ordered speaker cables from him. It will be at least a week before I get them, and I will of course follow the recommended break in ritual (Sorry guys I know y'all don't believe in that either).
After I receive them and break them in I'll let you know what I think. Thanks for the heads up. I'm also looking over the Acme Audio Labs website now, and I'll see what I want to try from them. Of course they don't have the liberal 60 day, no questions asked, return policy or unlimited warranty that Mr. Morrow does.
|
|
|
|
Post by emotivate on Apr 15, 2019 18:47:07 GMT -5
Hi emotivate, Well I noticed that you're using Morrow Audio cables, so I ran over to their website and checked them out. Having owned a couple of high end brands of audio cables, I've formed some conclusions about how different configurations can affect sound (Sorry guys, I know most of you don't believe this). Since I find Mr. Morrows reasoning sound, I've just ordered speaker cables from him. It will be at least a week before I get them, and I will of course follow the recommended break in ritual (Sorry guys I know y'all don't believe in that either). After I receive them and break them in I'll let you know what I think. Thanks for the heads up. I'm also looking over the Acme Audio Labs website now, and I'll see what I want to try from them. Of course they don't have the liberal 60 day, no questions asked, return policy or unlimited warranty that Mr. Morrow does. Hi Repeetavx, I have enjoyed the Morrow Audio cables for years, good stuff and they indeed DO have a break in period. Go as high a level as you can. I try to find the used ones, the more hours on them the better, and even the used ones have a settling in period until they mesh with your system. Be patient as they WILL require at least the 400 hr. break in that Morrow advises, to settle in. In my experience and in my system I find mixing copper wire and SPC wire is less than optimum,and that using ALL SPC wire gives the best results. I have several sets of the Morrow I/C's I pulled off my Oppo 95 analog outs, I would part with too if interested. The Acme 20 amp outlets are amazing little sweethearts, the best 50 bucks you can spend for your system IMHO. I would say grab as many as you need to plug in all your gear, their fuses are very good too. One trick I use, if you have a secondary system, put the Morrows on it, the CD player on repeat and let it play 24 hrs a day. You may be cursing me and Mr. Morrow until the break in is over, but after a few weeks they will come together and I think you will like them. Good to see another open minded audiophile on the forum, there is a lot of snake oil and expensive hype with cabling, but large gains in SQ are to be had. Cheers ! |
|
|
|
Post by repeetavx on Apr 15, 2019 19:21:33 GMT -5
Interesting that you should mention the wall sockets and the fuses.
I like to change one thing at a time in my system, then groove on it for a while. Then make the next change. Let's play with the new speaker cable first.
I bought two pairs of the SP3 speaker cables in three feet of length. (I'm passive vertical bi-amping with my gen 1 XPA-2s sitting right in front of each speaker). Mr. Morrow is having a 45% off sale this week, so I felt comfortable that I'm getting my moneys worth. Even though they're "only" 14 gauge, because I'm dividing up the current paths, I think that size should be sufficient. I'm even toying with the idea that if I like the sound, I may "trade in" one of the sets and "trade up" to a SP4 or SP5 for the lower frequency path. Thanks for the ideas. This should be fun
|
|
|
|
Post by emotivate on Apr 15, 2019 22:53:29 GMT -5
Interesting that you should mention the wall sockets and the fuses. I like to change one thing at a time in my system, then groove on it for a while. Then make the next change. Let's play with the new speaker cable first. I bought two pairs of the SP3 speaker cables in three feet of length. (I'm passive vertical bi-amping with my gen 1 XPA-2s sitting right in front of each speaker). Mr. Morrow is having a 45% off sale this week, so I felt comfortable that I'm getting my moneys worth. Even though they're "only" 14 gauge, because I'm dividing up the current paths, I think that size should be sufficient. I'm even toying with the idea that if I like the sound, I may "trade in" one of the sets and "trade up" to a SP4 or SP5 for the lower frequency path. Thanks for the ideas. This should be fun Guess I got carried away spending your money, lol. You have a very nice set up too, very similar to mine, and it took replacing all the wiring with SPC wire to finally tame the etched sound from the D.T. tweeters I was getting, but well worth it ! I liked going through the break in period for a while, but after moving up the line I tried to have as many cables, outlets, fuses etc. breaking in at the same time and getting to the good stuff as soon as possible. You are in for a bit of a roller coaster ride until they settle in, so enjoy the ride. Keep on rockin' |
|
|
|
Post by emotivate on Apr 21, 2019 13:10:24 GMT -5
Hi Repeetavx, was looking on the Morrow website, and saw some big changes to the cable construction. It looks as though Morrow has dropped the SPC wire and has gone with copper only, and increasing the number of strands per cable. Wow, a major change,as silver used to be one of the "S's in their SSI design. I would think your cables will sound different than mine do,and Morrow replaced the old reviews with ones on the new copper ones. I see positive reviews on them so I will be looking forward to see what you think of them.
|
|
