|
|
Post by Boomzilla on May 21, 2019 14:29:59 GMT -5
So weekend before last, a lightning strike took out my cable modem's Ethernet port. This past weekend, the power company blew a transformer near me and instantly shut off the TV, the internet, and the house phone.
No prob - thinks I - I'll fire up the generator! So I do so - and in about 20 minutes, the generator motor stops. OK - bound to be out of gas...
So I add gas, restart the generator, and in about 15 minutes, the surge protector in the living room burns up with a huge zap and the generator motor is stopped again. A head scratcher - Until...
I go out to check on the generator, and the gas tank is under vacuum! The supposedly "vented" gas tank cap is apparently no longer venting. And apparently, when the motor pulled a vacuum on the gas tank, the generator slowly dropped from its 3,600 regulated RPM to some slower speed - meaning that everything in the house was getting less than 60 Hz power!
That surge protecter that blew really (REALLY) didn't like that, because it had loose parts rattling around inside along with the smoke coming out of the sockets on top. It was an Isobar brand, by the way.
Fortunately, the motorized stuff (refrigerator, freezer, air conditioners, HVAC blower motors, etc.) survived without damage, as did the stereo gear & TV (all of which were off at the time). Nevertheless, it was an interesting event. The only other thing that may have been damaged was the computer system UPS. By fortuitous circumstance, I had my new APC Back-Ups Pro still in box that I hadn't installed yet, so I just swapped out the previous UPS (that had a pool of burned-smelling, sticky liquid beneath it) for the new APC.
So provided there's nothing boogered on the generator itself, a new gas cap should solve the problem...
But after the power came back on (and after the new APC was online) I still had no TV, home phone, or internet. Calling the local Cox cable company, of course their earliest technician visit was today (Tuesday). The tech arrived, said I had no signal at all, and that he'd need to trace it back up the node. He found my cable wire cut near where the power company linemen had been working. Once he put in a new wire, everything works again.
Can't wait to see what'll happen NEXT weekend! LOL
Boom
|
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on May 21, 2019 15:11:35 GMT -5
Probably need to replace all your components. What an excuselil!!
|
|
|
|
Post by tropicallutefisk on May 21, 2019 15:15:13 GMT -5
Yikes! I have not had anything quite so extreme, but I did have weird internet cable issue six months ago. It started with a very slow connection that eventually became an outage. There was an outage reported so I figured that was the issue. The next day we had internet till it suddenly went dead just before going to bed. We figured it was an outage again. The next day there was no internet and no reported outages. I thought perhaps it was a bad modem, so I bought a new one. That didn't fix it, so I finally conceded to a service call. The technician finally found the problem. A critter had chewed through the cable at the pole. Luckily, that was their responsibility and not mine so the call was free of charge. What the heck eats coax?
|
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on May 21, 2019 15:36:18 GMT -5
Yikes! I have not had anything quite so extreme, but I did have weird internet cable issue six months ago. It started with a very slow connection that eventually became an outage. There was an outage reported so I figured that was the issue. The next day we had internet till it suddenly went dead just before going to bed. We figured it was an outage again. The next day there was no internet and no reported outages. I thought perhaps it was a bad modem, so I bought a new one. That didn't fix it, so I finally conceded to a service call. The technician finally found the problem. A critter had chewed through the cable at the pole. Luckily, that was their responsibility and not mine so the call was free of charge. What the heck eats coax? Tree rats will eat anything! (Squirrel!) |
|
|
|
Post by tropicallutefisk on May 21, 2019 16:52:55 GMT -5
Lol I believe you could be right. No shortage of those "tree rats" here
|
|
|
|
Post by MusicHead on May 21, 2019 16:59:26 GMT -5
Yikes! I have not had anything quite so extreme, but I did have weird internet cable issue six months ago. It started with a very slow connection that eventually became an outage. There was an outage reported so I figured that was the issue. The next day we had internet till it suddenly went dead just before going to bed. We figured it was an outage again. The next day there was no internet and no reported outages. I thought perhaps it was a bad modem, so I bought a new one. That didn't fix it, so I finally conceded to a service call. The technician finally found the problem. A critter had chewed through the cable at the pole. Luckily, that was their responsibility and not mine so the call was free of charge. What the heck eats coax? Something similar happened to me years ago when I still had DSL. All of a sudden we lost internet service but the equipment on both my end and Verizon's checked fine. They sent a tech and he found out a rodent had chewed and severed the wires out in the street. |
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on May 21, 2019 17:09:40 GMT -5
I had a similar problem a few years ago with my A.C. - the outside condensing unit wouldn't 'kick in' with a call for cooling, so I call the repair tech service.
They find a fried mouse in the condensing unit's electrical box that had "completed the circuit" while chewing on those wires internal to the box...poor devil!
|
|
|
|
Post by Jean Genie on May 21, 2019 18:38:05 GMT -5
Back in '03, a tree rat chewed thru a wire harness on my brand spankin' new Honda Accord EXL. Not covered by warranty. Price to replace: $483. Insurance deductible: $500.
Sheesh! Life sucks and then you pay.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsonyay on May 21, 2019 18:51:05 GMT -5
Holly Kamoli. Man, glad everything is ok. I had a little mouse chew into a water line at home.. minor water damage.. but a couple grand to repair everything  |
|
|
|
Post by Ex_Vintage on May 21, 2019 20:35:38 GMT -5
That generator low speed (low frequency) thing is BAD. Any device that is powered through a transformer will have significant issues due to core saturation at low frequencies. The burning of varnish insulation or potting material will cause all sorts of gue to flow and a god awful smell. Your best hope is it trips a breaker before things begin to smoke.
|
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on May 23, 2019 3:16:45 GMT -5
I took the vented gas cap of the generator to the local Generac dealer. They discovered that a white / tan powder had clogged the breathing vents of the cap, preventing air from moving in or out of the tank at all. I cleared the vents with a paper clip, and then got some q-tips and soapy water. Turned out that the white powder was water-soluble and came off just fine. I've always used non-ethanol gas AND added gas preservative (Sta-Bil) to my gasoline, so I don't know where the powder came from. In any case, the cap is now clean and breathing again. I'll inspect it every six months or so starting now to ensure that no more buildup occurs.
Any ideas of what that powder is or where it comes from? The generator itself is stored in a plastic box, out of the rain and without any exposure to insects. The powder was also inside the cap, extending for a couple of inches down on the steel sliders of the level indicator. Those areas are not normally wetted, but are rather exposed to vapors from the gasoline as the tank breathes. The wetted areas had no powder buildup. There was not much powder, but the breathing vent of the gas cap is small in diameter (about ⅛ inch diameter or slightly less) with a plastic "hat" on the outlet to prevent rainwater from entering the tank through the vent.
After googling the topic, I see it isn't that rare. The "best guess" is that the powder is additives from ethanol-containing gas that have evaporated over time in high heat. I question that because I don't now (and have never) used gasohol in this generator. But the idea of "evaporating additives" may be so. It typically takes me about a year to burn a tank of gas in the generator. I do have a friend who is the analytical chemist for a large refinery - I'll ask him the next time I see him.
The "cure" recommended for the powder is to add some Marvel Mystery Oil to the tank, fill the tank fully hydraulic, and let the tank sit for a while. The MMO supposedly dissolves the powder and the subsequent liquid is clean enough to flow through the fuel filter and be burned. Since the powder seems to be readily liquid-soluble, I'm thinking that the proposal is credible.
Thanks - Boom
PS: One other speculation as to cause... The powder deposition was thickest at the actual atmospheric vent - where atmospheric moisture would be greatest. The powder coating volume quickly declined as the extension into the vapor space of the tank increased. In other words, the powder was thickest where the atmospheric moisture was greatest. This would imply that some material in the vapor space of the tank was reacting with the atmospheric moisture entering the vapor space via the vent, and then depositing as powder. Would the Sta-Bil gas treatment (intended to prevent the ethanol in the tank from absorbing water) be the culprit? Since my gas has no ethanol content, the Sta-Bil's water absorber may be more hydroscopic than usual, particularly in a vapor space. Although this is speculation, an easy way to test it is to stop using Sta-Bil and see if any further powder formation results.
If I'm right, then the "cure" for the powder problem may be to simply stop adding Sta-Bil to the gasoline.
|
|
|
|
Post by autiger on May 23, 2019 7:11:09 GMT -5
I think you solved it - the sta-bil sounds like the culprit.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
|
Post by KeithL on May 23, 2019 9:51:29 GMT -5
It could also be something in the air itself.
There are some atmospheric pollutants that will deposit themselves on some surfaces... There are also some atmospheric pollutants that will react with certain metals - especially zinc and aluminum - to produce powdery oxides and sulfides...
I think you solved it - the sta-bil sounds like the culprit. |
|
|
|
Post by DavidR on May 23, 2019 10:09:27 GMT -5
It's probably fallout from the chemtrails the C_A atmospheric geoengineering program. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on May 24, 2019 1:12:24 GMT -5
It could also be something in the air itself. There are some atmospheric pollutants that will deposit themselves on some surfaces... There are also some atmospheric pollutants that will react with certain metals - especially zinc and aluminum - to produce powdery oxides and sulfides...
Also true - but the only metals in this gas cap are the blued steel frame wires for the float to run on. I know they're steel cause I checked them with a magnet. Everything else in the cap is plastic. My homie at the refinery has offered to run a Mass-Spec/GC next time I get any powder buildup, so I'll eventually find out for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by simpleman68 on May 24, 2019 7:54:10 GMT -5
Dang....sorry to hear the genie poo'd the bed but it's nice to know it didn't take out the other components. That gets expensive quickly.
My buddy is a long time licensed electrician and certified with Generac to install and troubleshoot. I'll ask him about the white stuff. Scott
|
|
|
|
Post by simpleman68 on May 25, 2019 9:09:57 GMT -5
It could also be something in the air itself. There are some atmospheric pollutants that will deposit themselves on some surfaces... There are also some atmospheric pollutants that will react with certain metals - especially zinc and aluminum - to produce powdery oxides and sulfides...
Also true - but the only metals in this gas cap are the blued steel frame wires for the float to run on. I know they're steel cause I checked them with a magnet. Everything else in the cap is plastic. My homie at the refinery has offered to run a Mass-Spec/GC next time I get any powder buildup, so I'll eventually find out for sure. Ok, buddy got back to me. His thoughts:
Your area could be prone to salt in the air
Cheaper generators have less protection and better units will shut down if they run low RPMs creating "dirty" power which has voltage surges
If a portable generator, you may have overloaded it causing it to dip
He's never heard of a vacuum clog in fuel caps on genies
"That's all I got without knowing more details" Scott
|
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on May 25, 2019 12:23:15 GMT -5
Hi Scott -
Nah - I'm too far inland for any salty air. I'm relatively sure that my generator (Generac Centurion 15,000 portable) DOES have limiters to prevent the motor for running at significantly higher or lower RPMs than 3,600, but I don't know what the limits are. The idea that the engine slowed for any significant amount of time before stopping is speculation on my part without any evidence. The only FACTS that I have are:
1. The engine stopped running due to a vacuum condition on the fuel tank
2. The vacuum condition was caused by a powder-plugged tank cap
3. Whatever happened with the generator was sufficient to literally zap-and-smoke a surge suppressor in the house.
4. The powder in the gas cap was water soluble, existed only in the vapor space of the gas tank, and was densest in the immediate area of the atmospheric vent
Yes, it's entirely possible that there was a temporary speed dip, but the generator has high-current circuit breakers, and I've never blown one yet (including the day the tank had vacuum). In fact, at the most recent service call, the technician connected the generator to my house and ran it under load for about 30 minutes, recording the output wattage & voltage. All were within the capabilities of the generator.
And despite the fact that your friend never heard of a vacuum clog in a fuel cap, he's heard of one now, because that's exactly what happened here. In fact, I took the time to list the facts and sent them to my generator service company. They thanked me kindly and said that they'd put out a memo to all their technicians to watch for this.
I also discussed the issue with a small-engine specialist, and he agreed with me that the StaBil treatment was probably making things worse. He recommended NOT using fuel treatments designed for gasohol with non-gasahol-fuels. This would include StaBil and many others.
My next step will be to research what gas stabilizers I can buy that DON'T include hydroscopic compounds.
Thanks for the follow-up - I appreciate it (and your friend's input)! If a different fuel treatment cures the problem I'll say so here.
Boom
|
|
