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Post by carbonsummit on Jul 7, 2021 11:21:55 GMT -5
ONE MORE DAY!!!!
I'm like a kid at Christmas
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 7, 2021 12:04:58 GMT -5
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Post by lefthandedspork on Jul 26, 2021 23:13:46 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm considering upgrading an XMC-1 to an XMC-2 or RMC-1L.
Looking at the comparison charts, the XMC-2 is a good fit in terms of features. Do any other differences exist that would affect sound quality where specs are identical for XMC-2 and RMC-1L? For example, is 2-channel audio over HDMI 100% identical between an XMC-2, an RMC-1, and the 1L? Any difference in the quality of the audio-out connectors? How about video - any benefit to an RMC-1L over XMC-2?
Thanks!
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Jul 27, 2021 1:48:04 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm considering upgrading an XMC-1 to an XMC-2 or RMC-1L. Looking at the comparison charts, the XMC-2 is a good fit in terms of features. Do any other differences exist that would affect sound quality where specs are identical for XMC-2 and RMC-1L? For example, is 2-channel audio over HDMI 100% identical between an XMC-2, an RMC-1, and the 1L? Any difference in the quality of the audio-out connectors? How about video - any benefit to an RMC-1L over XMC-2? Thanks! See the comparison sheet in first post. |
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Post by lefthandedspork on Jul 27, 2021 10:18:49 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm considering upgrading an XMC-1 to an XMC-2 or RMC-1L. Looking at the comparison charts, the XMC-2 is a good fit in terms of features. Do any other differences exist that would affect sound quality where specs are identical for XMC-2 and RMC-1L? For example, is 2-channel audio over HDMI 100% identical between an XMC-2, an RMC-1, and the 1L? Any difference in the quality of the audio-out connectors? How about video - any benefit to an RMC-1L over XMC-2? Thanks! See the comparison sheet in first post. Thanks for the reply. Yep, I've seen the comparison sheet - the question was more around what differences exist between XMC-2 and RMC-1L that aren't reflected in the comparison sheet, physical differences aside. For example, would 2-channel audio over HDMI be 100% identical between all 3 processors in terms of sound quality, processing capabilities, DSD modes, menu options, bass management, and connector quality? |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Jul 27, 2021 10:48:47 GMT -5
See the comparison sheet in first post. Thanks for the reply. Yep, I've seen the comparison sheet - the question was more around what differences exist between XMC-2 and RMC-1L that aren't reflected in the comparison sheet, physical differences aside. For example, would 2-channel audio over HDMI be 100% identical between all 3 processors in terms of sound quality, processing capabilities, DSD modes, menu options, bass management, and connector quality? Today? Yes. In the future? The RMC-1 is supposed to get expansion modules for more subwoofers which could be used for two channel. Menu options would change when that happens to reflect more channels, and other expansion modules that are possible like more analog inputs, etc. The sound quality of the LCR are identical. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jul 27, 2021 10:53:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. Yep, I've seen the comparison sheet - the question was more around what differences exist between XMC-2 and RMC-1L that aren't reflected in the comparison sheet, physical differences aside. For example, would 2-channel audio over HDMI be 100% identical between all 3 processors in terms of sound quality, processing capabilities, DSD modes, menu options, bass management, and connector quality? The short answer to that question is yes, both processors will function and sound identical from a two-channel source. It's when you go above two-channel where one "might" say they prefer an RMC over an XMC due to the use of 16 independent DACs running in "dual mono" mode which gives you a "true" differentially balanced signal straight from the DAC. However, if you're using a single ended amp, it won't make a difference. The XMC-2 uses this type of "dual mono" setup as well, but only on the LCR channels (which is fine for most users). As for connector quality, the "XLR" connectors are the same chassis mounted sockets across all platforms. However, the RMC-1 and RMC-1L use chassis mounted "RCAs" rather than board mounted. The former is more rugged and durable than the latter, but neither will influence the sound quality any differently from the other. Other than for the above, the only other differences are aesthetics, dual independent OLED displays and the multi-function "rotary" controller... all of which are found only on the RMC series. All three processors share the same HDMI board and use the same software. Hope that helps...  |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 27, 2021 14:07:38 GMT -5
That is basically correct... with one exception... All of the main outputs on the XMC-2 are in fact fully balanced and fully differential (so they all do in fact deliver a "true differentially balanced signal"). On the channels that use "mono mode"... two output "channels", both of which are already fully balanced and fully differential, are cross-connected to deliver a single output with even better performance. (The main differences are a S/N that is about 5 dB better and even lower THD.)
Thanks for the reply. Yep, I've seen the comparison sheet - the question was more around what differences exist between XMC-2 and RMC-1L that aren't reflected in the comparison sheet, physical differences aside. For example, would 2-channel audio over HDMI be 100% identical between all 3 processors in terms of sound quality, processing capabilities, DSD modes, menu options, bass management, and connector quality? The short answer to that question is yes, both processors will function and sound identical from a two-channel source. It's when you go above two-channel where one "might" say they prefer an RMC over an XMC due to the use of 16 independent DACs running in "dual mono" mode which gives you a "true" differentially balanced signal straight from the DAC. However, if you're using a single ended amp, it won't make a difference. The XMC-2 uses this type of "dual mono" setup too, but only on the LCR channels (which is fine for most users). As for connector quality, the "XLR" connectors are the same chassis mounted sockets across all platforms. However, the RMC-1 and RMC-1L use chassis mounted "RCAs" rather than board mounted. The former is more rugged and durable than the latter, but neither will influence the sound quality any differently from the other. Other than for the above, the only other differences are aesthetics, dual independent OLED displays and the multi-function "rotary" controller... all of which are found only on the RMC series. All three processors share the same HDMI board and use the same software. Hope that helps... |
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Post by lefthandedspork on Jul 29, 2021 19:08:20 GMT -5
Thank you ttocs doc1963 and KeithL for the very thorough responses! I have a 5.1 setup with mono-blocks on each channel and a powered subwoofer. From what I'm gathering, the benefit of an RMC-1L over an XMC-2 in this configuration would be the dual-mono mode for the 2 rear channels, resulting in lower THD and better S/N ratio. Is that accurate? Thank you again! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 30, 2021 9:57:40 GMT -5
Thank you ttocs doc1963 and KeithL for the very thorough responses! I have a 5.1 setup with mono-blocks on each channel and a powered subwoofer. From what I'm gathering, the benefit of an RMC-1L over an XMC-2 in this configuration would be the dual-mono mode for the 2 rear channels, resulting in lower THD and better S/N ratio. Is that accurate? Thank you again! Yes, in your system only the two surround channels would benefit from the dual mono configuration. As far as I know there haven’t been any measurements published, so while your speculation about S/N and distortion is reasonable, it might take some pretty special test gear to even measure the difference (more speculation). |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 30, 2021 10:19:36 GMT -5
That is correct...
However, as someone else already mentioned, while the difference is measurable, it's really not something a human is likely to be able to hear. (In Mono Mode, compared to normal Stereo Mode, the typical S/N for the DAC chip goes from 120 dB to 123 dB and I believe the THD is reduced by an analogous amount.)
Thank you ttocs doc1963 and KeithL for the very thorough responses! I have a 5.1 setup with mono-blocks on each channel and a powered subwoofer. From what I'm gathering, the benefit of an RMC-1L over an XMC-2 in this configuration would be the dual-mono mode for the 2 rear channels, resulting in lower THD and better S/N ratio. Is that accurate? Thank you again! |
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Post by lefthandedspork on Jul 31, 2021 23:17:34 GMT -5
Thank you ttocs doc1963 and KeithL for the very thorough responses! I have a 5.1 setup with mono-blocks on each channel and a powered subwoofer. From what I'm gathering, the benefit of an RMC-1L over an XMC-2 in this configuration would be the dual-mono mode for the 2 rear channels, resulting in lower THD and better S/N ratio. Is that accurate? Thank you again! Yes, in your system only the two surround channels would benefit from the dual mono configuration. As far as I know there haven’t been any measurements published, so while your speculation about S/N and distortion is reasonable, it might take some pretty special test gear to even measure the difference (more speculation). That is correct... However, as someone else already mentioned, while the difference is measurable, it's really not something a human is likely to be able to hear. (In Mono Mode, compared to normal Stereo Mode, the typical S/N for the DAC chip goes from 120 dB to 123 dB and I believe the THD is reduced by an analogous amount.)
Thank you ttocs doc1963 and KeithL for the very thorough responses! I have a 5.1 setup with mono-blocks on each channel and a powered subwoofer. From what I'm gathering, the benefit of an RMC-1L over an XMC-2 in this configuration would be the dual-mono mode for the 2 rear channels, resulting in lower THD and better S/N ratio. Is that accurate? Thank you again! Thank you again for the great info! I think I'm going to go with the XMC-2. |
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seyumi
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by seyumi on Aug 1, 2021 16:01:04 GMT -5
Please excuse my newbie questions here. I’ve been researching and reading this forum for over a month and I just want to 100% make sure I understand what I’m getting myself into before dropping $10,000+ on Emotiva products. I’m mixing some speaker & subwoofer info in here but it’s all going to tie into the processor questions ultimately. Some of the terminology everyone is using is going a bit over my head so I’m hoping to get answers in the “lamest terms possible.”
I’m going to start with a 7.2.4 setup, with a possible 9.2.6 path for the future:
-I’ve decided on a full range of Emotiva speakers due to the positive reviews on the folded-ribbon tweeter and a lot of “bang for the buck” recommendations:
-T1+/C1+ (or possibly T2+/C2+) for LCR
-B1+ for all sides/surrounds (or possibly T0+’s)
-A1 or Airvaulta ceiling speakers for Atmos
-RS11’s for subs (or possibly RS13’s)
-I’ve decided on the XMC-2 ($3000) or the RMC-1L ($4000) for the 9.1.6 output support
-I’ve decided on XPA-11 Gen3 11 Channel ($2,100) to give my LCR channels the proper juice they need plus modest wattage to fully amp all remaining channels needed for 7.2.4 (will need a 2nd amp in future if going 9.1.6+)
Here’s my 2 main questions:
-DAC/sound quality differences on XMC-2 vs RMC-1L?
I understand the differences from the comparison sheet. I will be using 11 speakers into one XPA-11 Gen3 11 Channel (and a 2nd amp in the future if I go beyond 7.2.4). Are the separate DAC’s on all 16 channels on the RMC-1L a perceivable difference (on my setup specifically) vs the more combined DAC’s on the XMC-2? (from how I'm reading everything)
-Subwoofer daisy-chaining without quality loss on either processor?
The Emotiva RS11/RS13’s have balanced XLR’s and a balanced loop output (pass-through). If I end up doing 9.2.6 in the future, can I get away with daisy chaining my 2 subs without any perceivable difference and/or quality loss? (I don’t believe this happens with balanced inputs but does with unbalanced). Remember each processor is 16 channels and not 17 channels, so I wouldn’t want to go the higher $5,000 RMC-1 + future expansion modules to make this happen and hoping to just daisy-chain my 2 subs on the 16 inputs on the XMC-2 vs RMC-1L (again, without quality loss).
Sorry for the long post. This is just really eating me up since it’s such a big purchase (for me). I've never been past the unbalanced A/V stage in my life, but been patiently saving up and want to take things to the next level. Thanks again!
Just FYI about my setup and my personal use if this helps:
-My room is a dedicated "game room." There is no kitchen access or anything
-My room is 16'8" wide
-My room is 18'7" long
-My ceiling is 7'6" high
-I sit exactly in the center of the room (roughly 8' away from TV & front speaker)
-I use a 65" OLED TV (probably upgrade to 77" in the future - I'm NOT interested in a projector)
-Using Sony SS-CSX speakers & subs for a current 7.2.4 setup
-Using an Onkyo 9.2 receiver w/ preouts and a 2 channel amp
-I would not consider myself a professional "audiophile"
-I look for quality vs quantity for sound and do not consider myself to "blast" the volume (hence why I'm considering the T1/C1/B1/RS11 route vs T2/C2/T0/RS13 route)
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Germotiva
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Post by Germotiva on Aug 1, 2021 16:28:31 GMT -5
Please excuse my newbie questions here. I’ve been researching and reading this forum for over a month and I just want to 100% make sure I understand what I’m getting myself into before dropping $10,000+ on Emotiva products. I’m mixing some speaker & subwoofer info in here but it’s all going to tie into the processor questions ultimately. Some of the terminology everyone is using is going a bit over my head so I’m hoping to get answers in the “lamest terms possible.” I’m going to start with a 7.2.4 setup, with a possible 9.2.6 path for the future: -I’ve decided on a full range of Emotiva speakers due to the positive reviews on the folded-ribbon tweeter and a lot of “bang for the buck” recommendations: -T1+/C1+ (or possibly T2+/C2+) for LCR -B1+ for all sides/surrounds (or possibly T0+’s) -A1 or Airvaulta ceiling speakers for Atmos -RS11’s for subs (or possibly RS13’s) -I’ve decided on the XMC-2 ($3000) or the RMC-1L ($4000) for the 9.1.6 output support -I’ve decided on XPA-11 Gen3 11 Channel ($2,100) to give my LCR channels the proper juice they need plus modest wattage to fully amp all remaining channels needed for 7.2.4 (will need a 2nd amp in future if going 9.1.6+) Here’s my 2 main questions: -DAC/sound quality differences on XMC-2 vs RMC-1L? I understand the differences from the comparison sheet. I will be using 11 speakers into one XPA-11 Gen3 11 Channel (and a 2nd amp in the future if I go beyond 7.2.4). Are the separate DAC’s on all 16 channels on the RMC-1L a perceivable difference (on my setup specifically) vs the more combined DAC’s on the XMC-2? (from how I'm reading everything) -Subwoofer daisy-chaining without quality loss on either processor? The Emotiva RS11/RS13’s have balanced XLR’s and a balanced loop output (pass-through). If I end up doing 9.2.6 in the future, can I get away with daisy chaining my 2 subs without any perceivable difference and/or quality loss? (I don’t believe this happens with balanced inputs but does with unbalanced). Remember each processor is 16 channels and not 17 channels, so I wouldn’t want to go the higher $5,000 RMC-1 + future expansion modules to make this happen and hoping to just daisy-chain my 2 subs on the 16 inputs on the XMC-2 vs RMC-1L (again, without quality loss). Sorry for the long post. This is just really eating me up since it’s such a big purchase (for me). I've never been past the unbalanced A/V stage in my life, but been patiently saving up and want to take things to the next level. Thanks again! Hello Do you have your own room or is it a living room? I can only recommend you to find out more about the DBA / SBA subwoofer system. Because you buy everything from scratch.👍 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass_array 👌 |
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seyumi
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by seyumi on Aug 1, 2021 16:30:19 GMT -5
Please excuse my newbie questions here. I’ve been researching and reading this forum for over a month and I just want to 100% make sure I understand what I’m getting myself into before dropping $10,000+ on Emotiva products. I’m mixing some speaker & subwoofer info in here but it’s all going to tie into the processor questions ultimately. Some of the terminology everyone is using is going a bit over my head so I’m hoping to get answers in the “lamest terms possible.” I’m going to start with a 7.2.4 setup, with a possible 9.2.6 path for the future: -I’ve decided on a full range of Emotiva speakers due to the positive reviews on the folded-ribbon tweeter and a lot of “bang for the buck” recommendations: -T1+/C1+ (or possibly T2+/C2+) for LCR -B1+ for all sides/surrounds (or possibly T0+’s) -A1 or Airvaulta ceiling speakers for Atmos -RS11’s for subs (or possibly RS13’s) -I’ve decided on the XMC-2 ($3000) or the RMC-1L ($4000) for the 9.1.6 output support -I’ve decided on XPA-11 Gen3 11 Channel ($2,100) to give my LCR channels the proper juice they need plus modest wattage to fully amp all remaining channels needed for 7.2.4 (will need a 2nd amp in future if going 9.1.6+) Here’s my 2 main questions: -DAC/sound quality differences on XMC-2 vs RMC-1L? I understand the differences from the comparison sheet. I will be using 11 speakers into one XPA-11 Gen3 11 Channel (and a 2nd amp in the future if I go beyond 7.2.4). Are the separate DAC’s on all 16 channels on the RMC-1L a perceivable difference (on my setup specifically) vs the more combined DAC’s on the XMC-2? (from how I'm reading everything) -Subwoofer daisy-chaining without quality loss on either processor? The Emotiva RS11/RS13’s have balanced XLR’s and a balanced loop output (pass-through). If I end up doing 9.2.6 in the future, can I get away with daisy chaining my 2 subs without any perceivable difference and/or quality loss? (I don’t believe this happens with balanced inputs but does with unbalanced). Remember each processor is 16 channels and not 17 channels, so I wouldn’t want to go the higher $5,000 RMC-1 + future expansion modules to make this happen and hoping to just daisy-chain my 2 subs on the 16 inputs on the XMC-2 vs RMC-1L (again, without quality loss). Sorry for the long post. This is just really eating me up since it’s such a big purchase (for me). I've never been past the unbalanced A/V stage in my life, but been patiently saving up and want to take things to the next level. Thanks again! Hello Do you have your own room or is it a living room? I can only recommend you to find out more about the DBA / SBA subwoofer system. Because you buy everything from scratch.👍 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass_array 👌 I have my own dedicated "game room." I updated my original post. Thanks for the reply so far btw!: Just FYI about my setup and my personal use if this helps: -My room is a dedicated "game room." There is no kitchen access or anything -My room is 16'8" wide -My room is 18'7" long -My ceiling is 7'6" high -I sit exactly in the center of the room (roughly 8' away from TV & front speaker) -I use a 65" OLED TV (probably upgrade to 77" in the future - I'm NOT interested in a projector) -Using Sony SS-CSX speakers & subs for a current 7.2.4 setup -Using an Onkyo 9.2 receiver w/ preouts and a 2 channel amp -I would not consider myself a professional "audiophile" -I look for quality vs quantity for sound and do not consider myself to "blast" the volume (hence why I'm considering the T1/C1/B1/RS11 route vs T2/C2/T0/RS13 route) |
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Germotiva
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Posts: 90
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Post by Germotiva on Aug 1, 2021 16:42:13 GMT -5
dba / sba has nothing to do with volume. the arrangement creates an even distribution of bass with very little reverberation. sounds crisp and clean.
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Post by igorzep on Aug 10, 2021 9:14:26 GMT -5
Yes, Emotiva responded extensively and got right onto it with astonishing speed. You are reading a 14 month old article then spreading mis-information! Those issues were completely resolved by Emotiva within just a few days of being raised. Can I find a confirmation of your statement? After 8 more months... The issue of muting around digital silence (which I feel closely related to the one in the article) is still on my XMC-1. And the last firmware for it dates back few moths more before the article was written... Nothing in release notes of "gen-2" firmwares either! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 10, 2021 10:03:40 GMT -5
Please excuse my newbie questions here. … -I’ve decided on the XMC-2 ($3000) or the RMC-1L ($4000) for the 9.1.6 output support … Here’s my 2 main questions: - DAC/sound quality differences on XMC-2 vs RMC-1L?I understand the differences from the comparison sheet. I will be using 11 speakers into one XPA-11 Gen3 11 Channel (and a 2nd amp in the future if I go beyond 7.2.4). Are the separate DAC’s on all 16 channels on the RMC-1L a perceivable difference (on my setup specifically) vs the more combined DAC’s on the XMC-2? (from how I'm reading everything) - Subwoofer daisy-chaining without quality loss on either processor?The Emotiva RS11/RS13’s have balanced XLR’s and a balanced loop output (pass-through). If I end up doing 9.2.6 in the future, can I get away with daisy chaining my 2 subs without any perceivable difference and/or quality loss? (I don’t believe this happens with balanced inputs but does with unbalanced). Remember each processor is 16 channels and not 17 channels, so I wouldn’t want to go the higher $5,000 RMC-1 + future expansion modules to make this happen and hoping to just daisy-chain my 2 subs on the 16 inputs on the XMC-2 vs RMC-1L (again, without quality loss). … We’re all newbies about something, this is the place to ask questions. You’ve provided lots of information on your system and room, but I personally think it’s unlikely you’ll hear the difference between the two models. I feel most of the decision making is about build quality (Tiffany connectors vs surface mount), features (dual display), and aesthetics (balanced center control vs side control / center display. As for subwoofers that’s too complex a subject for this thread, but there would be no difference between these two models — potentially the RMC-1 with add on sub module could offer advantages in the future, but that’s yet to be delivered and seen. |
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