DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 4, 2019 16:55:46 GMT -5
I keep reading posts here about all kinds of software and hardware problems with digital home theater "pre-pro" pieces, but very few about any issues with members' tube components..... But, to listen to the hype, one would expect the opposite. Any theories? Software is difficult.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 4, 2019 17:01:23 GMT -5
... and tubes have been around forever, nothing surprising here.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 4, 2019 17:57:52 GMT -5
Right but not really a fair comparison, one is a workhorse amplifying and pumping out good sound; the other is trying to do the most complex SOTA codecs to an ever expanding number of channels (and all the legacy things expected of it). The implication is that if someone built a tube SSP it would be more reliable (which it wouldn’t), whereas I think you’re trying to say that we should just be happy with great two channel audio.
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Post by strindl on Jul 4, 2019 18:02:30 GMT -5
I keep reading posts here about all kinds of software and hardware problems with digital home theater "pre-pro" pieces, but very few about any issues with members' tube components..... But, to listen to the hype, one would expect the opposite. Any theories? A horse and buggy were far less complicated than a modern vehicle..far less to go wrong. Apples to oranges.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 4, 2019 18:06:10 GMT -5
Then why interject tubes into your original post? It’s always easier to do less (your example).
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Post by creimes on Jul 4, 2019 18:13:31 GMT -5
Because well made tube gear sounds better, holds value longer and at higher prices, is repairable and confers pride of ownership. How many even three- five year old “pre-pros” can say that? "Better" is a very subjective word in audio
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Post by strindl on Jul 4, 2019 18:27:57 GMT -5
Because well made tube gear sounds better, holds value longer and at higher prices, is repairable and confers pride of ownership. How many even three- five year old “pre-pros” can say that? show me a home theater pre/proc, that can do everything a solid state one can do, made with all tubes.
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Post by strindl on Jul 4, 2019 18:31:35 GMT -5
No need for me, my system is high end and excellent. Can your system with all tubes be used for home theater , with all of the decoding and multi channel surround modes? Again, apples and oranges. Your system, with tubes in certain parts is not meant to, or able to, operate as a home theater audio system.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 4, 2019 18:33:40 GMT -5
So if you want to compare the reliability of a tube amp to the “lack of completeness” of the RMC-1, ok, point taken, but IMO it’s not even apples and oranges and I can’t even come up with a fruit, vegetable, or other food that could even be an analogy.
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Post by strindl on Jul 4, 2019 18:41:25 GMT -5
No need for me, my system is high end, tubes ( except my Directstream dac) and is excellent. You're posting this on a forum of a manufacturer that doesn't offer any tube gear. How likely will it be to find discussions here about problems with tube gear? Try here instead: www.conradjohnsonowners.com/viewforum.php?f=17&sid=4b8877c73cfc36b531e785656a006709THERE is where you'll find all the discussion about problems with tube gear.
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Post by teaman on Jul 4, 2019 19:12:26 GMT -5
I don't think that Emotiva has offered a reliable and trustworthy pre/pro since their existence. I'm not even keen on their preamps and DACs. Emotiva should stick with making amps their number one concern, and with proper effort, they could build a solid and loyal customer base.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 4, 2019 20:58:46 GMT -5
I'll stack my Anthem AVM60 up against any preamp, and no tube-based preamp can handle home theater.
All generalities are false (including this one.)
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 4, 2019 23:22:23 GMT -5
HI Bill -
SOME tube gear is issue-free, but some isn't. For awhile there in the '70s and '80s, companies who didn't know any better seemed to be designing and selling tube gear whose reliability was worse than the lowest-priced solid state stuff. When the "audiophile boom" went bust, the majority of those companies went out of business, and the tube-gear companies that were left were those who had better engineering and more reliable products.
One can buy the cheapest Yamaha AVR on the market, and it'll be as reliable or even more reliable than the majority of Chinese tube gear. The Yamaha will exhibit that reliability despite having more channels, more functions, and more features. And don't disparage the sound quality of the little Yamahas either - you can spend a LOT more money before getting better sound (operated within their power limitations of the AVR, of course).
So let's level the playing field. Pick an identically-priced tube amp and solid-state one and tell me which you think will be the more reliable. I can't argue that some prefer tube sound and are willing to pay more for it, but the theory that tube gear is more reliable than solid state may be on thin ice.
Cordially - Boom
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Post by donh50 on Jul 4, 2019 23:41:18 GMT -5
My ARC preamp and amp were not terribly reliable. And tubes wear out, get noisy, microphonic, etc. Sounded nice when they worked. IME SS has well surpassed tubes in terms of reliability. Comparing the birthing pains of a new complex product like the RMC-1 to a simple tube amp or preamp is grossly out of line. For a different comparison, I had to repair my ARC amp twice and retube several times in ten years; my XPA-series amplifiers are doing fine with zero maintenance in the same amount of time.
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Jul 5, 2019 6:07:01 GMT -5
Over years I owned two different Yamaha receivers and a Rotel prepro that worked flawlessly for several years. All were passed down to family members and served them well till they purchased newer equipment. My first issue with any receiver or prepro was a Marantz purchased new in 2008. In 2016 one of the HDMI ports fritzed out and I was upgrading to 4k, so I replaced it with the Marantz 8802a. The 8802a went green screen after a week in my system. I had to pay shipping costs to send it back to Marantz so it could be repaired. I was NOT happy with Marantz or my dealer. However, rather than blame Marantz for a shoddy product I am more inclined to believe this is a matter of issues with new tech. Though I do hold Marantz and the dealer responsible for the policy of making me pay to have the item shipped for repair.
As for amplifiers, I have or have owned a total of seven solid state amps from brands such as McIntosh, Rotel and Emotiva. None have ever given me any trouble.
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Post by strindl on Jul 5, 2019 10:06:19 GMT -5
The original poster in this thread seems to have abandoned it and deleted all of his posts. That's odd.
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Post by audiobill on Jul 5, 2019 11:36:59 GMT -5
In response to the thread shift to mass market transistors vs tubes. My post was about the troublesome nature of “pre-pro” units, whatever that is.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 5, 2019 12:00:05 GMT -5
But, then, I doubt anyone ever put 100,000 miles on a horse and buggy... while modern autos frequently make it far longer than that. I'm pretty sure a horse couldn't go 1000 miles in one day either.
(But, then, a horse can have baby horses, and I've never heard of a car doing that.)
Different requirements... and different results... I seem to recall, in the old days, power output tubes died relatively often, but preamp tubes lasted almost forever...
I keep reading posts here about all kinds of software and hardware problems with digital home theater "pre-pro" pieces, but very few about any issues with members' tube components..... But, to listen to the hype, one would expect the opposite. Any theories? A horse and buggy were far less complicated than a modern vehicle..far less to go wrong. Apples to oranges.
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Post by strindl on Jul 5, 2019 12:14:51 GMT -5
In response to the thread shift to mass market transistors vs tubes. My post was about the troublesome nature of “pre-pro” units, whatever that is. I can respond to that. I have used preamp processors for years..almost 20 years. I've never had any problem with any of them. I currently have an Integra DHC 9.9. It's 10 years old and is used just about every day. Never a problem, everything has always worked. I had an Outlaw 990 pre amp processor for years as well. Never had any issues with it. I also still use a Harman Kardon Signature 2.0 preamp/processor. I've been using that for 11 or 12 years. Never any problems with it. As for tube preamps and amps vs solid state for reliability, I have a Threshold T2 solid state fully balanced preamp. I've owned it for 25 years and still use it every day. Never a problem nor any maintenance needed. I would put the sound quality, capabilities and versatility up against any tube preamp, and win. I also have multiple solid state power amps, including a Threshold SA/4e. I bought it about 26 years ago and it has never needed any service or maintenance. Again, I'd put it's sound quality up against any tube power amp. Tube equipment has specific sounds that some people enjoy. That's fine. But to say that tube equipment has far fewer problems is ridiculous. Since there are no tube based pre/proc, you can't compare reliability of solid state ones to something that doesn't exist.
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novisnick
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CEO Secret Monoblock Society
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Post by novisnick on Jul 5, 2019 12:49:32 GMT -5
But, then, I doubt anyone ever put 100,000 miles on a horse and buggy... while modern autos frequently make it far longer than that. I'm pretty sure a horse couldn't go 1000 miles in one day either.
(But, then, a horse can have baby horses, and I've never heard of a car doing that.)
Different requirements... and different results... I seem to recall, in the old days, power output tubes died relatively often, but preamp tubes lasted almost forever...
A horse and buggy were far less complicated than a modern vehicle..far less to go wrong. Apples to oranges. No joy in rolling over from 99,999 to 100,000 in the digital realm! Analog was so much more fun!
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