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Post by ttocs on Feb 24, 2020 21:26:52 GMT -5
Hi guys,
As KeithL said, some of us haven't noticed this yet. But I'm glad I have now!
Until reading these posts I really hadn't considered using some not new old stuff, like what's in some old guitar amps I've got. Could be interesting . . .
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Feb 24, 2020 22:29:18 GMT -5
I’m guessing that we all have favorite tubes for our special gear. After much trial and error I am running all reissue Genelex Gold Lions in all my McIntosh tube gear. The difference in sound quality was immediately obvious. Whether it works well with all Hifi gear is another question but I’ve been very pleased with the new Gold Lions
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
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Post by novisnick on Feb 24, 2020 23:25:24 GMT -5
I’m guessing that we all have favorite tubes for our special gear. After much trial and error I am running all reissue Genelex Gold Lions in all my McIntosh tube gear. The difference in sound quality was immediately obvious. Whether it works well with all Hifi gear is another question but I’ve been very pleased with the new Gold Lions I personally found the Gold Lions a bit bright for me, but I was running the Studio 100’s long before the tweeters mellowed out. I may have to revisit them McIntosh C220 preamp. Glad your enjoying them. ❤️
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Feb 25, 2020 0:29:11 GMT -5
I’m guessing that we all have favorite tubes for our special gear. After much trial and error I am running all reissue Genelex Gold Lions in all my McIntosh tube gear. The difference in sound quality was immediately obvious. Whether it works well with all Hifi gear is another question but I’ve been very pleased with the new Gold Lions I personally found the Gold Lions a bit bright for me, but I was running the Studio 100’s long before the tweeters mellowed out. I may have to revisit them McIntosh C220 preamp. Glad your enjoying them. ❤️ Specially on the input tubes and preamp section. The driver tubes Kt88 gold lions were good but I didn’t hear a significant difference compared to stock kt88 I haven’t found these tubes to be bright but rather detailed from low to high without the midrange coloration I have had from NOS tubes.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
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Post by novisnick on Feb 25, 2020 0:33:25 GMT -5
I personally found the Gold Lions a bit bright for me, but I was running the Studio 100’s long before the tweeters mellowed out. I may have to revisit them McIntosh C220 preamp. Glad your enjoying them. ❤️ Specially on the input tubes and preamp section. The driver tubes Kt88 gold lions were good but I didn’t hear a significant difference compared to stock kt88 I haven’t found these tubes to be bright but rather detailed from low to high without the midrange coloration I have had from NOS tubes. Yes, I also found them to be too accurate and detailed but overly IMO. Chocolate and vanilla my friend!
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Post by LuisV on Dec 30, 2020 12:30:22 GMT -5
Although not an amp, below are my tube rolling experience and thoughts thus far with various 6SN7 tubes in my Schiit Freya plus. I haven't found a tube that I didn't particularly like; however, some sounded more refined and or "color" the sound better than others... I'll do my best to describe what I heard. Before taking the plunge, I combed through various Freya tube rolling forum posts as I wanted to become more acquainted with the 6SN7 offerings and gain experience from other owners. Most owners indicated that the right pair of tubes have the most impact to the overall "sound" quality; therefore, quad sets aren't required; matched pairs are recommended though. After reading various posts and messaging a couple of Freya owners, I decided to venture down the rabbit hole... My observations are listed based on what was provided with the Freya and then in order of purchase / delivery. Besides the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix quad matched sets, the rest were matched pairs installed on the right side of the Feya. Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB - Stock tubesDynamic, punchy with less of that "tube" sound, if that makes sense. I've seen / heard Youtubers call the sound signature of the Tung-Sols as the "new" tube sound, not warm; however, certainly not clinical nor cold sounding. They provide just enough "color", yet are different when comparing the sound to older tubes. They provide a wide soundstage, yet it is not as deep as some of the other tubes I have on hand. All in all a great sounding tube, nothing particularly "magical", just a nice sounding tube that is readily available at a decent price point. Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 - Matched Quad Set - Tube Depot - $23.95 / eachI enjoyed their 6922 in my Schiit Vali headphone amp, so these were the 1st tubes that I purchased for the Freya. They are extremely similar to the Tung-Sols; however, have less width to the sounds stage as they sounded ever so slightly "boxed in" in comparison. Don't get me wrong, the soundstage didn't suck; the presentation from the Tung-Sols was simply wider. If I didn't have the Tung-Sols to compare them to, these would be perfect as far as an inexpensive set of readily available tubes. GE 6SN7GTA with copper grid posts, "D" getter; 1950s - Tube Depot - $159 / matched pairSlightly less bass than the Tung-Sols; however, they are much warmer, so I'm starting to hear the "color" that I prefer. Call it distortion if preferred, but I'm starting to hear the "magic" of tubes and those sonic qualities weren't present with the Tung-Sols. The GEs have the same dynamics, impact, and wide soundstage of the Tung-Sols, so I decided to keep them on the left side, while testing the other tubes I have. No particular sound quality reason for that decision, I felt since they were also old / "NOS" tubes that they should pair better with the rest of the tubes I had purchased. RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle with side "D" getter and black plates - eBay - $38.93 / matched pairAfter letting them cook for a few days, I finally heard the "magic" I was looking for. They have a wider, deeper and taller soundstage. Smooth vocals, fantastic guitar... simply a better sounding tube. There is more presence to the music... just all around better. I regards to soundstage depth, it sounded as though aspects of the soundscape came from behind the speakers.... as in, a few feet behind the speakers... the speakers simply disappeared... they added more dimension to the sound than what I previously heard with the other tubes. With the other tubes the speakers also disappeared, but they weren't as dimensional nor deep as these. RCA 6SN7GTB with bottom getter and black plates; one dated May 1961, the other Nov 1963 - eBay - $47.93 / matched pairNice sounding tubes, but a step down from the Raytheon; these are more like the GEs, but not as refined. They still put a smile to my face, but the Raytheon's are superior. I'll need to do a longer A/B test, but after an quick comparison, I prefer the GEs over the RCAs as the GEs had more detail and presence to the musical presentation. CBS 6SN7GTB with 2-Hole black plates and bottom "D" getter; 1956 Week 22 - eBay - $59.33 / matched pairInitially reminded me of the Raytheon's, but after a quick A/B, they sounded more like the GEs; however, with deeper bass and although less than the Raytheon's, they have more dimension to the soundscape than the GEs presented. These are much warmer than the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix, but not as "magical" as the Raytheon's. I prefer these over the GEs. I'll probably keep these on the left side once I finish listening to all the tubes I have; possibly as a round 2 type test. I have these on hand, just haven't gotten to them yet. Psvane UK-6SN7 factory matched - Grant Fidelity - $119.95 / factory matched pair Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle with black plates, halo getter - eBay - $57.53 / matched pair Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13 - eBay - $89.93 / matched pair RCA 6C8G with 6SL7 adapter and cable - eBay - $92.50 matched pair Raytheon / Baldwin 6SN7GTB - eBay - $62 matched pair After listening to 6 different tubes, new and "NOS", below is my order of preference; however, as older tubes become more expensive and more difficult to find, I have two options for relatively inexpensive, great sounding and readily available tubes in the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix. RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle CBS 6SN7GTB GE 6SN7GTA RCA 6SN7GTB Tung-Sols Electro-Harmonix Currently cooking the Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13. For more info on my room and the decision to head back to 2 channel stereo please visit here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/57382/heading-back-2-channel
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Post by selind40 on Dec 30, 2020 14:15:06 GMT -5
Although not an amp, below are my tube rolling experience and thoughts thus far with various 6SN7 tubes in my Schiit Freya plus. I haven't found a tube that I didn't particularly like; however, some sounded more refined and or "color" the sound better than others... I'll do my best to describe what I heard. Before taking the plunge, I combed through various Freya tube rolling forum posts as I wanted to become more acquainted with the 6SN7 offerings and gain experience from other owners. Most owners indicated that the right pair of tubes have the most impact to the overall "sound" quality; therefore, quad sets aren't required; matched pairs are recommended though. After reading various posts and messaging a couple of Freya owners, I decided to venture down the rabbit hole... My observations are listed based on what was provided with the Freya and then in order of purchase / delivery. Besides the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix quad matched sets, the rest were matched pairs installed on the right side of the Feya. Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB - Stock tubesDynamic, punchy with less of that "tube" sound, if that makes sense. I've seen / heard Youtubers call the sound signature of the Tung-Sols as the "new" tube sound, not warm; however, certainly not clinical nor cold sounding. They provide just enough "color", yet are different when comparing the sound to older tubes. They provide a wide soundstage, yet it is not as deep as some of the other tubes I have on hand. All in all a great sounding tube, nothing particularly "magical", just a nice sounding tube that is readily available at a decent price point. Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 - Matched Quad Set - Tube Depot - $23.95 / eachI enjoyed their 6922 in my Schiit Vali headphone amp, so these were the 1st tubes that I purchased for the Freya. They are extremely similar to the Tung-Sols; however, have less width to the sounds stage as they sounded ever so slightly "boxed in" in comparison. Don't get me wrong, the soundstage didn't suck; the presentation from the Tung-Sols was simply wider. If I didn't have the Tung-Sols to compare them to, these would be perfect as far as an inexpensive set of readily available tubes. GE 6SN7GTA with copper grid posts, "D" getter; 1950s - Tube Depot - $159 / matched pairSlightly less bass than the Tung-Sols; however, they are much warmer, so I'm starting to hear the "color" that I prefer. Call it distortion if preferred, but I'm starting to hear the "magic" of tubes and those sonic qualities weren't present with the Tung-Sols. The GEs have the same dynamics, impact, and wide soundstage of the Tung-Sols, so I decided to keep them on the left side, while testing the other tubes I have. No particular sound quality reason for that decision, I felt since they were also old / "NOS" tubes that they should pair better with the rest of the tubes I had purchased. RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle with side "D" getter and black plates - eBay - $38.93 / matched pairAfter letting them cook for a few days, I finally heard the "magic" I was looking for. They have a wider, deeper and taller soundstage. Smooth vocals, fantastic guitar... simply a better sounding tube. There is more presence to the music... just all around better. I regards to soundstage depth, it sounded as though aspects of the soundscape came from behind the speakers.... as in, a few feet behind the speakers... the speakers simply disappeared... they added more dimension to the sound than what I previously heard with the other tubes. With the other tubes the speakers also disappeared, but they weren't as dimensional nor deep as these. RCA 6SN7GTB with bottom getter and black plates; one dated May 1961, the other Nov 1963 - eBay - $47.93 / matched pairNice sounding tubes, but a step down from the Raytheon; these are more like the GEs, but not as refined. They still put a smile to my face, but the Raytheon's are superior. I'll need to do a longer A/B test, but after an quick comparison, I prefer the GEs over the RCAs as the GEs had more detail and presence to the musical presentation. CBS 6SN7GTB with 2-Hole black plates and bottom "D" getter; 1956 Week 22 - eBay - $59.33 / matched pairInitially reminded me of the Raytheon's, but after a quick A/B, they sounded more like the GEs; however, with deeper bass and although less than the Raytheon's, they have more dimension to the soundscape than the GEs presented. These are much warmer than the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix, but not as "magical" as the Raytheon's. I prefer these over the GEs. I'll probably keep these on the left side once I finish listening to all the tubes I have; possibly as a round 2 type test. I have these on hand, just haven't gotten to them yet. Psvane UK-6SN7 factory matched - Grant Fidelity - $119.95 / factory matched pair Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle with black plates, halo getter - eBay - $57.53 / matched pair Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13 - eBay - $89.93 / matched pair RCA 6C8G with 6SL7 adapter and cable - eBay - $92.50 matched pair Raytheon / Baldwin 6SN7GTB - eBay - $62 matched pair After listening to 6 different tubes, new and "NOS", below is my order of preference; however, as older tubes become more expensive and more difficult to find, I have two options for relatively inexpensive, great sounding and readily available tubes in the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix. RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle CBS 6SN7GTB GE 6SN7GTA RCA 6SN7GTB Tung-Sols Electro-Harmonix Currently cooking the Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13. For more info on my room and the decision to head back to 2 channel stereo please visit here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/57382/heading-back-2-channelI'm still waiting on word from that Schiity company......ordered mine last week. I've already ordered the tube extender things another member suggested. As previously stated, I'm willing to accept any of the tubes you decide don't meet your quality assurance standards.....ISO 9001:2015 is nothing in comparison. Haha....
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Post by LuisV on Dec 30, 2020 14:59:47 GMT -5
I'm still waiting on word from that Schiity company......ordered mine last week. I've already ordered the tube extender things another member suggested. As previously stated, I'm willing to accept any of the tubes you decide don't meet your quality assurance standards.....ISO 9001:2015 is nothing in comparison. Haha.... Ultimate plan is to select a few tubes, buy a few spares and sell the rest. That being said, none are duds... my ears, my preference; others may feel otherwise. When did you order the Freya? Schiit's website says 7 - 10 days before shipping.
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Post by selind40 on Dec 30, 2020 16:40:50 GMT -5
I'm still waiting on word from that Schiity company......ordered mine last week. I've already ordered the tube extender things another member suggested. As previously stated, I'm willing to accept any of the tubes you decide don't meet your quality assurance standards.....ISO 9001:2015 is nothing in comparison. Haha.... Ultimate plan is to select a few tubes, buy a few spares and sell the rest. That being said, none are duds... my ears, my preference; others may feel otherwise. When did you order the Freya? Schiit's website says 7 - 10 days before shipping. O ordered a week ago.....but with the Holidays & all I figure I'd wait until tomorrow to reach out to them and confirm the order. I just ordered some Raytheon 6SN7GTB short bottle side getter thingy that you liked.....for 40 bucks I figured why not.....I can't even get a 12 pack of good IPA's and a pizza for 40 bucks.
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Post by DavidR on Dec 30, 2020 16:46:58 GMT -5
I use the 6SN7 tube in a tube buffer. It also can use 6N8P and 6H8C. It came with a pair of Chinese 6N8P and they really had no impact that I could hear. I found a nice pair of NOS Sylvania 6SN7GTB from like 1953. These are what I like. I also got a pair of new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and those are just like you said. So for me its the old black plate with foil getters that sound the best including pre amp tubes like 12AU7, plus variants, and AX7 and their variants. I find it hard to resist some tubes that pop up from sellers I trust.
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Post by audiobill on Dec 30, 2020 16:56:51 GMT -5
I have four Genelex Gold Lion KT88s, made in England, triple getters, dark charcoal plates and all test well on my emissions tester.
These are the holy grail of KT88s, make an offer!
Bill
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Post by LuisV on Dec 30, 2020 17:11:50 GMT -5
O ordered a week ago.....but with the Holidays & all I figure I'd wait until tomorrow to reach out to them and confirm the order. I just ordered some Raytheon 6SN7GTB short bottle side getter thingy that you liked.....for 40 bucks I figured why not.....I can't even get a 12 pack of good IPA's and a pizza for 40 bucks. Awesome, hope you like them... pizza and beer... another favorite of mine. I think we need a beer thread; however, I’m not an IPA fan.
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Post by DavidR on Dec 30, 2020 20:09:39 GMT -5
I have four Genelex Gold Lion KT88s, made in England, triple getters, dark charcoal plates and all test well on my emissions tester. These are the holy grail of KT88s, make an offer! Bill I've never looked into NOS (or slightly used) Output tubes only because they are supposed to be matched for Gm (transconductance) and it would be too hard to find a matching set of four.
I know Telefunken never had black plate tubes and perhaps Mullard and Amperex. Maybe all European tubes. They did have dark grey which is what USA tubes went to after the shiny black and black tubes. I suspect they found that the black substance was toxic. Most European tubes, especially the driver/pre amp tubes have heater flash; very few do not. I don't know about Output tubes.
A picture is worth a 1000 words.
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Post by DavidR on Dec 31, 2020 15:29:53 GMT -5
12BH7A with shiny black plates and horseshoe foil getter
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Post by DavidR on Jan 1, 2021 23:42:41 GMT -5
Although not an amp, below are my tube rolling experience and thoughts thus far with various 6SN7 tubes in my Schiit Freya plus. I haven't found a tube that I didn't particularly like; however, some sounded more refined and or "color" the sound better than others... I'll do my best to describe what I heard. Before taking the plunge, I combed through various Freya tube rolling forum posts as I wanted to become more acquainted with the 6SN7 offerings and gain experience from other owners. Most owners indicated that the right pair of tubes have the most impact to the overall "sound" quality; therefore, quad sets aren't required; matched pairs are recommended though. After reading various posts and messaging a couple of Freya owners, I decided to venture down the rabbit hole... ....................................... I have these on hand, just haven't gotten to them yet. Psvane UK-6SN7 factory matched - Grant Fidelity - $119.95 / factory matched pair Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle with black plates, halo getter - eBay - $57.53 / matched pair Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13 - eBay - $89.93 / matched pair RCA 6C8G with 6SL7 adapter and cable - eBay - $92.50 matched pair Raytheon / Baldwin 6SN7GTB - eBay - $62 matched pair Very nice write-ups on each tube. I have a Grant Fidelity CD-327A that has a pair of Psvane 12AX7A tubes on the output stage. Everyone will tell you they need hours of use before they sound their best.
For a new production tube they sound very nice. Many qualities of NOS and less of the SS sound from other new production tubes. Great, strong bass, smooth, warm mids and clear, sparkling highs.
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Post by LuisV on Jan 1, 2021 23:56:51 GMT -5
Thanks DavidR... it's been a fun ride thus far. I'm waiting on a pair of RCA 6C8G to arrive before I try the Psvane tubes in the Freya; I've heard that the Psvanes take a loong time before they settle in, so we'll see how they work out in the Freya. I'm thinking I'll run through all the tubes again with the PSvane and then with the RCA 6C8G on the left side. Looking forward to the learning and listening experience... should be good enough reason to pick up another case of wine... lol
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Post by LuisV on Jan 5, 2021 10:19:38 GMT -5
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Post by DavidR on Jan 16, 2021 20:31:53 GMT -5
Why is this?
When I play jazz it is always on vinyl. Of course I have some vinyl for rock and blues from before CDs. Why is it that my jazz records always sound like 'magic' with my tube gear and the rock and blues stuff is 'same old' ? - Just nothing special at all. The jazz albums are probably as old as the rock and blues so its not a matter of old vinyl vs new vinyl.
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Post by DavidR on Jan 27, 2021 20:07:41 GMT -5
Is anyone familiar with Amperex and Bugle Boy (which is made by Amperex)?
I bought a 12AX7A Amperex tube made in 1958. Hoping it has those sweet mids the Bugle Boy is known for.
Does anyone know how the two compare?
I got this tube for the V2 position on my PH14 Phono board.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,938
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Post by KeithL on Jan 28, 2021 13:57:51 GMT -5
Wow... " getting close to the time where I will need to replace them" ....
Back when tubes were current technology power output tubes wore out now and then... But preamp tubes like the 12AX7 were expected to last for twenty or thirty years unless something went wrong... (And most devices like preamps served their entire life with the same tubes they came with...)
I have a CD player with a pair of 12AX7 tubes in the output. Currently it has Psvane tubes that came with it. It's getting close to the time where I will need to replace them. A new pair of Psvane 12AX7 are approx $82. I found some NOS (military) Brimar tubes that are listed as "The Holy Grail". A pair of matched tubes are twice as much. Any of you have experience with the Psvane or, more importantly, the Brimar (made in England)? I also have a pair of NOS G.E. tubes in the drawer that may be from like the 60's.
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