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Post by foggy1956 on Feb 5, 2021 11:10:41 GMT -5
Note:
There is also a valid argument that "if you have the room, and the budget, it's best if all of your speakers are the same". However, unless you have the space and the budget for all large speakers, that argument rarely wins. And it really still doesn't justify a large center speaker that is still different in design from the other speakers.
(And you really can't just "lay a big tower on its side..." because that results in an asymmetrical left/right dispersion pattern... which is bad for a center.)
Pretty much will be the design of the center I wish for by Tekton. I want an Ulf's full MTM array w/ same size midbass drivers minus 12" subs horizontally. I outlined the speakers in red the center channel should have to match the L and R. That's 15 tweeter MTM and 4 seven inch midbass drivers. Eric had recommended "staggering" the crossover points for the L and R and sub crossover points. In the distant future I'd like to run the 4-10s from round 70hz to 200-300hz. And have a pair of Tekton 21" subs perform the duty down below. While the center in the picture was excellent at decent listening levels I wish for something absurd for special occasions. Mine was simpler, he just shaved an inch off the height of my Enzo center. Still nice that he would do that, lot of manufacurers wouldn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 11:16:24 GMT -5
Pretty much will be the design of the center I wish for by Tekton. I want an Ulf's full MTM array w/ same size midbass drivers minus 12" subs horizontally. I outlined the speakers in red the center channel should have to match the L and R. That's 15 tweeter MTM and 4 seven inch midbass drivers. Eric had recommended "staggering" the crossover points for the L and R and sub crossover points. In the distant future I'd like to run the 4-10s from round 70hz to 200-300hz. And have a pair of Tekton 21" subs perform the duty down below. While the center in the picture was excellent at decent listening levels I wish for something absurd for special occasions. Mine was simpler, he just shaved an inch off the height of my Enzo center. Still nice that he would do that, lot of manufacurers wouldn't. Would love to see pictures of your setup Foggy!
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 5, 2021 11:48:22 GMT -5
It's nice that they're willing to do a custom design.
Note that there's a bit more to designing a center channel speaker than "laying a tower on its side".
If you look at the MTM array you outlined in red you will see that there are midrange drivers at the far top and bottom. Because of that arrangement, with drivers in the MTM array separated by a significant distance, you get what is known as a "comb filter" effect. This means that, if you were to play a single steady midrange tone, the level would vary up and down slightly if you moved your head up and down.
(The same wave, coming from multiple sources, cancels and reinforces itself at different spots.) This is not at all a big deal with vertically arranged drivers - because you rarely bobble your head up and down
(and they may or may not adjust the crossover to minimize it).
However, when the arrangement is horizontal, it results in levels that waver up and down if you move your head from side to side. This can be quite annoying if something like dialog "wavers" as you move your head or walk from left to right.
Because of this, when a similar arrangement is used for a center speaker, the two "identical" drivers on the left and right are actually treated differently. Specific different crossover settings are used for the two "identical" left and right drivers... resulting in a smoother left to right dispersion pattern. (It may seem counterintuitive... but you get a smoother and more symmetrical left to right response pattern by feeding a non-symmetrical signal to those drivers.)
It is also true that the optimum vertical and horizontal dispersion patterns are slightly different for left and right mains than they are for the center.
(For example, by slightly limiting the vertical dispersion on the center, you minimize early reflections from the floor and ceiling, which can make dialog seem slightly cleaner.)
This is one of the reasons why it often doesn't work out well to "just lay a tower on its side" and use it as a center. Basically normal towers are designed to be used vertically... and they often don't work especially well when run horizontally.
However, the reverse is usually not true, and most centers will work pretty well if run vertically...
Note:
There is also a valid argument that "if you have the room, and the budget, it's best if all of your speakers are the same". However, unless you have the space and the budget for all large speakers, that argument rarely wins. And it really still doesn't justify a large center speaker that is still different in design from the other speakers.
(And you really can't just "lay a big tower on its side..." because that results in an asymmetrical left/right dispersion pattern... which is bad for a center.) Pretty much will be the design of the center I wish for by Tekton. I want an Ulf's full MTM array w/ same size midbass drivers minus 12" subs horizontally. I outlined the speakers in red the center channel should have to match the L and R. That's 15 tweeter MTM and 4 seven inch midbass drivers. Eric had recommended "staggering" the crossover points for the L and R and sub crossover points. In the distant future I'd like to run the 4-10s from round 70hz to 200-300hz. And have a pair of Tekton 21" subs perform the duty down below. While the center in the picture was excellent at decent listening levels I wish for something absurd for special occasions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 11:57:22 GMT -5
It's nice that they're willing to do a custom design.
Note that there's a bit more to designing a center channel speaker than "laying a tower on its side".
If you look at the MTM array you outlined in red you will see that there are midrange drivers at the far top and bottom. Because of that arrangement, with drivers in the MTM array separated by a significant distance, you get what is known as a "comb filter" effect. This means that, if you were to play a single steady midrange tone, the level would vary up and down slightly if you moved your head up and down.
(The same wave, coming from multiple sources, cancels and reinforces itself at different spots.) This is not at all a big deal with vertically arranged drivers - because you rarely bobble your head up and down
(and they may or may not adjust the crossover to minimize it).
However, when the arrangement is horizontal, it results in levels that waver up and down if you move your head from side to side. This can be quite annoying if something like dialog "wavers" as you move your head or walk from left to right.
Because of this, when a similar arrangement is used for a center speaker, the two "identical" drivers on the left and right are actually treated differently. Specific different crossover settings are used for the two "identical" left and right drivers... resulting in a smoother left to right dispersion pattern. (It may seem counterintuitive... but you get a smoother and more symmetrical left to right response pattern by feeding a non-symmetrical signal to those drivers.)
It is also true that the optimum vertical and horizontal dispersion patterns are slightly different for left and right mains than they are for the center.
(For example, by slightly limiting the vertical dispersion on the center, you minimize early reflections from the floor and ceiling, which can make dialog seem slightly cleaner.)
This is one of the reasons why it often doesn't work out well to "just lay a tower on its side" and use it as a center. Basically normal towers are designed to be used vertically... and they often don't work especially well when run horizontally.
However, the reverse is usually not true, and most centers will work pretty well if run vertically...
Pretty much will be the design of the center I wish for by Tekton. I want an Ulf's full MTM array w/ same size midbass drivers minus 12" subs horizontally. I outlined the speakers in red the center channel should have to match the L and R. That's 15 tweeter MTM and 4 seven inch midbass drivers. Eric had recommended "staggering" the crossover points for the L and R and sub crossover points. In the distant future I'd like to run the 4-10s from round 70hz to 200-300hz. And have a pair of Tekton 21" subs perform the duty down below. While the center in the picture was excellent at decent listening levels I wish for something absurd for special occasions. Maybe so, We'll see what Eric can come up with. You'll have to excuse me for ignoring the "comb filtering" as everyone claims Eric's designs should have that effect. I'd like something that plays down to 50-60hz so that the crossover point isn't -3 to -6db down between 70-80hz. I can move my TV up another few inches to align w/ top of mains and the center high frequency tweeter should be within a just a couple of inches of the mains horizontally. Yes, the mids in the MTM will be horizontal but at ear height in seating position I'll say right now I seldom "stand before" the front sound stage. If you note the center speaker in the above picture you can see the same "thinking" as there's one high frequency and two mids on either side horizontally in the five tweeter array. I'd just basically want a full poly array on each side of the high frequency to "keep up with the mains". Given the price of the Ulfs I'd guess such a center be round 4000.00 dollars. The 3 channel Parasound Halo amp [rated 400watts rms x 3] I am currently using has an output of a little under 600 watts rms as tested by a reviewer before audible distortion. I'd like something that can keep up with the mains at that point. As was the center as pictured above needed to be crossed over at round 100hz ...... at high spl. I'll say right now at 100hz for the center was undesirable as male vocals in dialogue were sometimes more difficult to understand. That is, when men sound like a man and not some high octave millennial
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Post by selind40 on Feb 23, 2021 20:45:47 GMT -5
Well.....the replacement Pendragons w/ grills are here and playing. The hard part is keeping the volume low for awhile as they acclimate to their new home. Love the look.
Attachment Deleted
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Post by selind40 on Feb 23, 2021 20:50:53 GMT -5
Lay on your couch to view.....what the crap, damn that whiskey.....
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Post by daveczski65 on Feb 24, 2021 16:56:36 GMT -5
Looking good,don't worry it just puts it like that in the forum, when u click on pic its straight.
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Post by daveczski65 on Feb 24, 2021 16:58:37 GMT -5
Well.....the replacement Pendragons w/ grills are here and playing. The hard part is keeping the volume low for awhile as they acclimate to their new home. Love the look.
View Attachment What fluance TT you have? Hard to tell in pic,,What cartridge do you run?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 9:52:09 GMT -5
Well.....the replacement Pendragons w/ grills are here and playing. The hard part is keeping the volume low for awhile as they acclimate to their new home. Love the look.
View Attachment Are those white or Tekton's light gray?
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Post by selind40 on Feb 25, 2021 9:55:39 GMT -5
Well.....the replacement Pendragons w/ grills are here and playing. The hard part is keeping the volume low for awhile as they acclimate to their new home. Love the look.
View Attachment Are those white or Tekton's light gray? Bianca White.....
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Post by selind40 on Feb 25, 2021 9:59:18 GMT -5
Well.....the replacement Pendragons w/ grills are here and playing. The hard part is keeping the volume low for awhile as they acclimate to their new home. Love the look.
View Attachment What fluance TT you have? Hard to tell in pic,,What cartridge do you run? I bought the RT-81, the lower entry level TT. It came with the AN95.....for my needs it works really well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 10:00:35 GMT -5
Are those white or Tekton's light gray? Bianca White..... On the second rack is that a Schiit tube preamp? Freya +? Hope you don't mind me asking as I was considering introducing the Schiit Freya + into my audio chain in the near future. I'm debating between the Freya + and Parasound P6 Halo. If that's a Schiit tube preamp, may I ask for your listening impressions? Any suggestions, regrets, tips, etc? I'm wondering whether adding a tube preamp in front of my Parasound amp [class A/AB] might add the signature tube sound? Right now I'm only using a Bluesound Node 2i in the audio chain before a Parasound Halo A31. I'd like to add a good preamp but at the same time wish to try tubes. I like the Freya + on paper because one can switch from tubes to solid state w/ a flick of a switch. Best of both worlds as tube life is extended while watching cinema by switching to solid state.
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Post by daveczski65 on Feb 25, 2021 16:13:13 GMT -5
What fluance TT you have? Hard to tell in pic,,What cartridge do you run? I bought the RT-81, the lower entry level TT. It came with the AN95.....for my needs it works really well. Nice,I like there TT ,I got the RT-85, with 2m blue ortofon. so far luv it,was thinking of trying a ortofon bronze,,I heard they were great, but are pricey. Hope you enjoy those Tektons,once they are broke in they will sing!
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Post by leonski on Feb 25, 2021 16:40:42 GMT -5
Good job. Now? If your cat will leave 'em ALONE and not think of them as a scratching post!
Wife is a keeper, too. Does she enjoy better sound? And did she help in picking equipment. Some guys I know SWEAR by the hearing of the spouse.
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Post by audiobill on Feb 25, 2021 17:30:17 GMT -5
I swear by my wife’s ear for two reasons:
1) She’s a piano major 2) She buys my gear, and LOVES big blue meters!
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Post by DavidR on Feb 25, 2021 19:56:04 GMT -5
I swear by my wife’s ear for two reasons: 1) She’s a piano major 2) She buys my gear, and LOVES big blue meters!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2021 2:21:47 GMT -5
What do you think about this config. Ditch the stock grills and place guards on the 12" but leave the midbass and MTM array open? Trying to decide whether to leave the speakers open or have a custom metal mesh transparent grill utilizing the frames:
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Post by adaboy on Mar 1, 2021 6:32:37 GMT -5
What do you think about this config. Ditch the stock grills and place guards on the 12" but leave the midbass and MTM array open? Trying to decide whether to leave the speakers open or have a custom metal mesh transparent grill utilizing the frames: I like the first option. Looks cleaner.
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Post by selind40 on Mar 1, 2021 7:33:16 GMT -5
Is it just me, or do you need a " Bigger " TV.....Lol
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Post by boomzilla on Mar 1, 2021 7:41:51 GMT -5
Hi @deleted -
The style of the grill depends on the purpose of the grill (to state the obvious).
1. If the purpose of the grill is to increase WAF, then a "full cover" with an opaque grill-cloth is likely the preferred option.
2. If the purpose of the grill is to protect the drivers from kids & pets, then a "full cover" with either a heavy grill-cloth or a metal screen would do the job.
3. If the purpose of the grill is to protect the bottom woofer from the vacuum cleaner, then the single woofer cover would work fine.
If you're looking for minimum interference with sound quality then reverse the order of the three suggestions above.
But you already knew all this. Since you're asking for opinions, mine is that the woofer covers are best. I opine that for at least two reasons:
Reason one - the outside frame of the full grill will interfere with the wave launch. Its surfaces will cause a reflection of all drivers that will (at least in theory) interfere with imaging.
Reason two - the center horizontal support of the full grill is in immediate proximity to the central "super tweeter" of the array. Since high frequencies are more prone to interference problems than are low frequencies, having that frame almost over the center driver will definitely affect the wave-launch.
And on another note, if you're going to put that grill over the woofers of the main speakers, I'd consider also putting similar grills on the subwoofer drivers. It will visually unify the setup and also protect the sub drivers.
Cordially - Boomzilla
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