Lsc
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Posts: 3,343
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Post by Lsc on Apr 4, 2020 16:15:37 GMT -5
I have had to restart the ATV4K more frequently these days than before.
Not sure what the cause is but it’s a little annoying.
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klinemj
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Honorary Emofest Scribe
Posts: 14,744
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Post by klinemj on Apr 4, 2020 16:16:26 GMT -5
While trying to set it up and testing it, I had set the HDMI to Direct to simplify things and make it so that I could confirm that all the channels were working properly (by actually putting an ear up to each speaker on my 7.1 setup). I was also thinking it wouldn't color the original sound of the source. However, in looking more closely at the manual after you mentioned this (page 13/14) I didn't realize that Dirac and some of the other adjustments won't work with Direct (which seems to makes sense) - so, I'll test it next with the HDMI input set to Auto and see if makes a difference. Right now though, I've only done a limited setup on the XMC-2 as I haven't actually adjusted anything except setting the speaker distances. But it sounds awesome none-the-less, and I'll try the Auto setting next. I'm also awaiting two speakers from ebay, to add as front wides so that will bring up my setup to 9.1. Also, my amp is the XPA-11 gen 3, and am very happy with that too. Very cool. I suspect you will like auto much better. I basically don't use Direct at all. The way I've always looked at Direct is, if you want to have an end to end analog path, or something along this concept, then you would use Direct. It provides a "pure" signal with no processing. I respect everyone's difference of opinion on the matter, but for me, I like my sound altered 😉 Per the manual and past Emotiva pre-pro's, "Direct Mode provides a relatively pure listening experience, and eliminates most processing, but still retains bass management." So, Dirac and other things like PEQ are not options for Direct Mode. Reference stereo is the purest there is...no processing at all. I believe if someone puts an analog input into the pre-pro and chooses "Direct", the process does an ADC conversion, does bass MGMT, then does DAC to output the analog signal. With reference stereo, if analog comes in - it goes straight out with only the volume control impacting the signal and no ADC/DAC happening. If you want Dirac or PEQ, don't choose Direct or Reference Stereo modes. Mark
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Post by rochesterboy on Apr 4, 2020 16:28:56 GMT -5
I think I figured it out. My OPPO UDP-205 is connected to EPSON HDMI -1 which supports HDCP 2.2 where as my XMC-2 is connected to EPSON HDMI-2 port which only supports HDMI 1.4. I would love to project from my OPPO 205 to EPSON 5040 on its HDMI 1 port. But Apple TV 4K is unable to send ATMOS signal via Oppo 205 to XMC-2. Is there anyway to do that? The other option is to connect audio and video out of Oppo 205 to XMC-2 and connect Apple TV 4K also to XMC-2 and have XMC-2 project the video on EPSON 5040. Does XMC-2 processes the video signal or does it directly sends it to the projector/TV? If direct then I should not loose any benefit of OPPO’s video processing capabilities. I have all sources connected to inputs of the XMC-2, then the output goes to the Epson 5040. On my 5040 from the AppleTV I get HDR @ 24Hz with 12 bit 4:2:2 color. This is the best the 5040 will provide. And this is over a 50' cable! I tried it just now. All the inputs are connected to XMC-2 and the XMC-2s output 2 is connected to 5040. Whenever I try enable HDR on my Apple TV, it always switches back to SDR mode. What settings should I have on the Apple TV and/or EPSON 5040 to make this work? Edit: Enable HDR did not work. But I was able to use other supported formats and select the HDR @ 24Hz with 12 bit 4:2:2 color option. It worked this time. Should I also turn on the “Match Frame Rate” option?
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Post by ttocs on Apr 4, 2020 16:59:33 GMT -5
I have all sources connected to inputs of the XMC-2, then the output goes to the Epson 5040. On my 5040 from the AppleTV I get HDR @ 24Hz with 12 bit 4:2:2 color. This is the best the 5040 will provide. And this is over a 50' cable! I tried it just now. All the inputs are connected to XMC-2 and the XMC-2s output 2 is connected to 5040. Whenever I try enable HDR on my Apple TV, it always switches back to SDR mode. What settings should I have on the Apple TV and/or EPSON 5040 to make this work? GoTo: Settings:: Video and Audio:: Format:: Other Formats (at bottom of list):: Select 4K HDR 24Hz, then select OK when the confirmation screen appears. This won't get offered when using the automated checker, that's why you need to do this manually.
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Post by megash0n on Apr 4, 2020 17:04:46 GMT -5
Very cool. I suspect you will like auto much better. I basically don't use Direct at all. The way I've always looked at Direct is, if you want to have an end to end analog path, or something along this concept, then you would use Direct. It provides a "pure" signal with no processing. I respect everyone's difference of opinion on the matter, but for me, I like my sound altered 😉 Per the manual and past Emotiva pre-pro's, "Direct Mode provides a relatively pure listening experience, and eliminates most processing, but still retains bass management." So, Dirac and other things like PEQ are not options for Direct Mode. Reference stereo is the purest there is...no processing at all. I believe if someone puts an analog input into the pre-pro and chooses "Direct", the process does an ADC conversion, does bass MGMT, then does DAC to output the analog signal. With reference stereo, if analog comes in - it goes straight out with only the volume control impacting the signal and no ADC/DAC happening. If you want Dirac or PEQ, don't choose Direct or Reference Stereo modes. Mark Thanks Mark. I get those two confused often.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 4, 2020 19:17:53 GMT -5
What settings should I have on the Apple TV and/or EPSON 5040 to make this work? Edit: Enable HDR did not work. But I was able to use other supported formats and select the HDR @ 24Hz with 12 bit 4:2:2 color option. It worked this time. Should I also turn on the “Match Frame Rate” option? I think I remember setting Match Content both settings to On, but I'm not 100% sure about this. Also, I just remembered that I set the dynamic range on the 5040 to Settings:: Signal:: Advanced:: Dynamic Range:: Auto
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 4, 2020 23:58:25 GMT -5
The ability of choosing the receive the original signal without alteration, as a bitstream, seems like a serious omission to me. (It is also an option that many other products do offer.)
(I assume that Apple has their reasons for doing it that way, and their usual lack of concern for what anybody else wants.)
Just for clarification, to get the best audio formats with ATV4K, you can’t bitstream as it sends PCM. This is one option I do wish they would add. Isn’t that similar to saying something like “our processors can’t decode DSD, you have to send it as PCM from the source device, but it sounds just as good?” While many of us would like an option to send bitstream from ATV4K (just as many would like to send DSD), if in the end you aren’t losing anything and it sounds just as good, then the end user gets what they need. Instead of each of us picking on the products we don’t like, wouldn’t it be more helpful for those who have expertise with a particular device or technology to help those with questions about that device, and let others answer questions about products they have expertise in?
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Post by cwt on Apr 5, 2020 0:14:20 GMT -5
I assume that Apple has their reasons for doing it that way, and their usual lack of concern for what anybody else wants.) This is speculation and unfortunate for bitstreaming or passthrough with no decoding [it should be switchable for compatibility] but the appletv4k is also supposed to plug direct into a hdmi input on your tv . If you have an old tv that doesnt have a dolby digital or dts decoder for bitstreamed audio the lpcm is necessary ; this may be an early design choice that they have slackly not addressed in the iterations since For those XMC2 owners that would rather have bitstream there is a solution called Infuse pro5 ;found this ; Good value as it organises all your shares on your network and other problems like remuxing file formats that wont play direct www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyug_WqIojo
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 5, 2020 0:33:19 GMT -5
I assume that Apple has their reasons for doing it that way, and their usual lack of concern for what anybody else wants.) This is speculation and unfortunate for bitstreaming or passthrough with no decoding [it should be switchable for compatibility] but the appletv4k is also supposed to plug direct into a hdmi input on your tv . If you have an old tv that doesnt have a dolby digital or dts decoder for bitstreamed audio the lpcm is necessary ; this may be an early design choice that they have slackly not addressed in the iterations since For those XMC2 owners that would rather have bitstream there is a solution called Infuse pro5 ;found this ; Good value as it organises all your shares on your network and other problems like remuxing file formats that wont play direct www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyug_WqIojoThe most oft stated reason for ATV4K doing the decode in the box and sending PCM, is so they can overlay their navigation sounds and process Siri commands / responses. While infuse is a pretty useful App, it can’t process files with Atmos.
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Post by SteveInNC on Apr 5, 2020 1:37:06 GMT -5
Nevermind. Not my argument. 😀
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Post by steelman1991 on Apr 5, 2020 2:57:53 GMT -5
I assume that Apple has their reasons for doing it that way, and their usual lack of concern for what anybody else wants.) This is speculation and unfortunate for bitstreaming or passthrough with no decoding [it should be switchable for compatibility] but the appletv4k is also supposed to plug direct into a hdmi input on your tv . If you have an old tv that doesnt have a dolby digital or dts decoder for bitstreamed audio the lpcm is necessary ; this may be an early design choice that they have slackly not addressed in the iterations since For those XMC2 owners that would rather have bitstream there is a solution called Infuse pro5 ;found this ; Good value as it organises all your shares on your network and other problems like remuxing file formats that wont play direct www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyug_WqIojo@ cwt - Infuse doesn't bitstream, it acts in the same way as the AppleTV, by decoding and passing as LPCM. It's a restriction of the architecture of the AppleTV and is the reason, these apps cannot offer Atmos/DTS:X from mkv rips - there has been a workaround introduced that allows an mp4 file to play in Atmos, though I understand that requires a "re-encode" of the title rather than a straight rip from disc.
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Post by steelman1991 on Apr 5, 2020 3:54:09 GMT -5
I have all sources connected to inputs of the XMC-2, then the output goes to the Epson 5040. On my 5040 from the AppleTV I get HDR @ 24Hz with 12 bit 4:2:2 color. This is the best the 5040 will provide. And this is over a 50' cable! I tried it just now. All the inputs are connected to XMC-2 and the XMC-2s output 2 is connected to 5040. Whenever I try enable HDR on my Apple TV, it always switches back to SDR mode. What settings should I have on the Apple TV and/or EPSON 5040 to make this work? Edit: Enable HDR did not work. But I was able to use other supported formats and select the HDR @ 24Hz with 12 bit 4:2:2 color option. It worked this time. Should I also turn on the “Match Frame Rate” option? Yes - otherwise everything will play at the defaulted frame rate - 60Hz, which some set-ups baulk on. Might be worthwhile checking your cable capabilities. What @ ttocs is suggesting works around having the "Match Frame Rate" option turned on, where everything will play back at 24Hz and for some the transitions and animation of menu's will stutter. Set your Video/Audio to HDMI Output - 4K SDR 60Hz Match Content - Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate, both to On. This will enable automatic switching from SDR to HDR where required and change frame rate to match the file playing and avoids everything playing back at 24Hz.
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Post by cwt on Apr 5, 2020 6:47:40 GMT -5
@ cwt - Infuse doesn't bitstream, it acts in the same way as the AppleTV, by decoding and passing as LPCM. It's a restriction of the architecture of the AppleTV and is the reason, these apps cannot offer Atmos/DTS:X from mkv rips - there has been a workaround introduced that allows an mp4 file to play in Atmos, though I understand that requires a "re-encode" of the title rather than a straight rip from disc. Aah ; was guessing it was a sort of software decode [ more speculation lol] but makes me glad I use a separate zappiti that can handle oodles of different codecs
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Post by steelman1991 on Apr 5, 2020 7:15:15 GMT -5
@ cwt - Infuse doesn't bitstream, it acts in the same way as the AppleTV, by decoding and passing as LPCM. It's a restriction of the architecture of the AppleTV and is the reason, these apps cannot offer Atmos/DTS:X from mkv rips - there has been a workaround introduced that allows an mp4 file to play in Atmos, though I understand that requires a "re-encode" of the title rather than a straight rip from disc. Aah ; was guessing it was a sort of software decode [ more speculation lol] but makes me glad I use a separate zappiti that can handle oodles of different codecs The AppleTV can handle most of the codecs (just not Atmos/DTS:X). It happily plays back TrueHD, DTS MA-HD and others, they're just presented to the processor in a different fashion, but identical in all ways. However like you I have a seperate player (Zidoo Z9S) which covers Atmos/DTS:X titles.
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Post by megash0n on Apr 5, 2020 8:51:01 GMT -5
Aah ; was guessing it was a sort of software decode [ more speculation lol] but makes me glad I use a separate zappiti that can handle oodles of different codecs The AppleTV can handle most of the codecs (just not Atmos/DTS:X). It happily plays back TrueHD, DTS MA-HD and others, they're just presented to the processor in a different fashion, but identical in all ways. However like you I have a seperate player (Zidoo Z9S) which covers Atmos/DTS:X titles. In no way am I trying to cause conflict, but I think we've touched on this a few times. This is simply a disagreement with a smile and a hug. ☺ If I tell my PC software to decode the signal and send to my RMC via PCM, it absolutely does NOT sound identical nor as good. On paper, it seems like it should because " Lossless is lossless " , right? It is my experience that there is some magic that happens when you let your AVR/Processor/high end DAC do that decoding. If you have a way to do a side by side comparison, with full bitrate audio (not highly compressed from streaming services), test it out. It could always be "just me", but I remember learning this when the PS3 first came out. The difference of having the PS3 decode or my AVR was night and day. This doesn't mean there aren't good decoders out there because there are. I'm only implying that APTV, Xbox, PS4, Chromecast, etc.. Probably aren't as concerned about audio as Emotiva is. Let the AVR/Proc decode that signal via bitstream.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 5, 2020 10:17:29 GMT -5
I tried it just now. All the inputs are connected to XMC-2 and the XMC-2s output 2 is connected to 5040. Whenever I try enable HDR on my Apple TV, it always switches back to SDR mode. What settings should I have on the Apple TV and/or EPSON 5040 to make this work? Edit: Enable HDR did not work. But I was able to use other supported formats and select the HDR @ 24Hz with 12 bit 4:2:2 color option. It worked this time. Should I also turn on the “Match Frame Rate” option? Yes - otherwise everything will play at the defaulted frame rate - 60Hz, which some set-ups baulk on. Might be worthwhile checking your cable capabilities. What @ ttocs is suggesting works around having the "Match Frame Rate" option turned on, where everything will play back at 24Hz and for some the transitions and animation of menu's will stutter. Set your Video/Audio to HDMI Output - 4K SDR 60Hz Match Content - Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate, both to On. This will enable automatic switching from SDR to HDR where required and change frame rate to match the file playing and avoids everything playing back at 24Hz. FYI the Epson 5040UB won't pass 4K HDR at better than 24Hz.
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Post by rochesterboy on Apr 5, 2020 10:22:38 GMT -5
I tried it just now. All the inputs are connected to XMC-2 and the XMC-2s output 2 is connected to 5040. Whenever I try enable HDR on my Apple TV, it always switches back to SDR mode. What settings should I have on the Apple TV and/or EPSON 5040 to make this work? Edit: Enable HDR did not work. But I was able to use other supported formats and select the HDR @ 24Hz with 12 bit 4:2:2 color option. It worked this time. Should I also turn on the “Match Frame Rate” option? Yes - otherwise everything will play at the defaulted frame rate - 60Hz, which some set-ups baulk on. Might be worthwhile checking your cable capabilities. What @ ttocs is suggesting works around having the "Match Frame Rate" option turned on, where everything will play back at 24Hz and for some the transitions and animation of menu's will stutter. Set your Video/Audio to HDMI Output - 4K SDR 60Hz Match Content - Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate, both to On. This will enable automatic switching from SDR to HDR where required and change frame rate to match the file playing and avoids everything playing back at 24Hz. Thank you. This is exactly what I found yesterday and after these settings, Epson 5040 showed in the Info menu SDR and HDR content type correctly.
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Post by steelman1991 on Apr 5, 2020 10:36:57 GMT -5
Yes - otherwise everything will play at the defaulted frame rate - 60Hz, which some set-ups baulk on. Might be worthwhile checking your cable capabilities. What @ ttocs is suggesting works around having the "Match Frame Rate" option turned on, where everything will play back at 24Hz and for some the transitions and animation of menu's will stutter. Set your Video/Audio to HDMI Output - 4K SDR 60Hz Match Content - Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate, both to On. This will enable automatic switching from SDR to HDR where required and change frame rate to match the file playing and avoids everything playing back at 24Hz. FYI the Epson 5040UB won't pass 4K HDR at better than 24Hz. I sort of surmised that - and I'm not suggesting that he try and play anything beyond that. What you proposed was a "fixed" 24Hz setting in the ATV4K, which would play everything at that framerate. My solution to rochesterboy was to switch to automatic frame rate. This recognises a file being played at 24Hz and automatically switches to the correct framerate. With the exception of 2 titles - all others are, or will - in the case of streamed apps be presented at 23.976 (though Netflix in an increasing number of releases are presenting at actual 24Hz, not the 23.976Hz norm). The ATV is unable to play these at that framerate natively - but that's for another discussion, another day. Your solution while working fine, providing all his content is 23.976, will cause issues of "pulldown" should they be anything other than that and the transitions and movement in menu browsing will in most cases stutter. The solution I suggested maintains the smooth navigation, but switches correctly to other framerates, therefore allowing the Epson to playback HDR properly. Neither are wrong merely a personal preference and the poster is free to choose which one suits his purposes. All good .
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 5, 2020 11:21:52 GMT -5
The AppleTV can handle most of the codecs (just not Atmos/DTS:X). It happily plays back TrueHD, DTS MA-HD and others, they're just presented to the processor in a different fashion, but identical in all ways. However like you I have a seperate player (Zidoo Z9S) which covers Atmos/DTS:X titles. In no way am I trying to cause conflict, but I think we've touched on this a few times. This is simply a disagreement with a smile and a hug. ☺ If I tell my PC software to decode the signal and send to my RMC via PCM, it absolutely does NOT sound identical nor as good. On paper, it seems like it should because " Lossless is lossless " , right? It is my experience that there is some magic that happens when you let your AVR/Processor/high end DAC do that decoding. If you have a way to do a side by side comparison, with full bitrate audio (not highly compressed from streaming services), test it out. It could always be "just me", but I remember learning this when the PS3 first came out. The difference of having the PS3 decode or my AVR was night and day. This doesn't mean there aren't good decoders out there because there are. I'm only implying that APTV, Xbox, PS4, Chromecast, etc.. Probably aren't as concerned about audio as Emotiva is. Let the AVR/Proc decode that signal via bitstream. However ATV (and the others ) are streaming boxes, and as such are always dealing with lossy audio, that’s the nature of streaming and why disks (and good rips of them), sound and look better. So giving an example of how you can hear a difference with lossless audio isn’t an apt comparison (switching a CD player from PCM to bitstream would be similar). One thing a purpose built device can do is optimize the limited scope of functions it performs. On the other hand, a PC is the Swiss Army knife that can handle a very wide gamut of functions, but that doesn’t necessarily make it better at any given task, and in this case doesn’t prove that if ATV had a bitstream option it would sound better. So while I agree it would be nice for Apple to add a bitstream option for flexibility, I don’t agree it would necessarily sound better (but leave open that it’s possible).
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Post by megash0n on Apr 5, 2020 11:33:33 GMT -5
In no way am I trying to cause conflict, but I think we've touched on this a few times. This is simply a disagreement with a smile and a hug. ☺ If I tell my PC software to decode the signal and send to my RMC via PCM, it absolutely does NOT sound identical nor as good. On paper, it seems like it should because " Lossless is lossless " , right? It is my experience that there is some magic that happens when you let your AVR/Processor/high end DAC do that decoding. If you have a way to do a side by side comparison, with full bitrate audio (not highly compressed from streaming services), test it out. It could always be "just me", but I remember learning this when the PS3 first came out. The difference of having the PS3 decode or my AVR was night and day. This doesn't mean there aren't good decoders out there because there are. I'm only implying that APTV, Xbox, PS4, Chromecast, etc.. Probably aren't as concerned about audio as Emotiva is. Let the AVR/Proc decode that signal via bitstream. However ATV (and the others ) are streaming boxes, and as such are always dealing with lossy audio, that’s the nature of streaming and why disks (and good rips of them), sound and look better. So giving an example of how you can hear a difference with lossless audio isn’t an apt comparison (switching a CD player from PCM to bitstream would be similar). One thing a purpose built device can do is optimize the limited scope of functions it performs. On the other hand, a PC is the Swiss Army knife that can handle a very wide gamut of functions, but that doesn’t necessarily make it better at any given task, and in this case doesn’t prove that if ATV had a bitstream option it would sound better. So while I agree it would be nice for Apple to add a bitstream option for flexibility, I don’t agree it would necessarily sound better (but leave open that it’s possible). Yeah, I see your point regarding the fact it is lossy regardless. The difference in our two points may be so minor it is irrelevant. I guess I didn't really think of it in these terms. A DD+ Atmos track at 768kbps is definitely going to sound different than a TrueHD track at 9Mbps.
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