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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 16, 2019 12:28:50 GMT -5
Actually set my new pair of SVS SB-3000 in dual mono mode and it sounds awesome.
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Post by novisnick on Sept 16, 2019 13:55:41 GMT -5
Actually set my new pair of SVS SB-3000 in dual mono mode and it sounds awesome. Hey stranger! So happy to see you! You must be all out of Emo Blue! Have some on the house!
 uploading pic
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Post by novisnick on Sept 16, 2019 13:58:33 GMT -5
Do recordings actually have two sub tracks?
Do movies have multiple sub tracks?
If so, then how many?
If they have stereo tracks for subs then I’d go that route, otherwise mono will suffice.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 16, 2019 14:27:58 GMT -5
Do recordings actually have two sub tracks? Do movies have multiple sub tracks? If so, then how many? If they have stereo tracks for subs then I’d go that route, otherwise mono will suffice. Right. I created this poll before receiving my new dual Subwoofers to have an idea of which setup is preferred, but after made myself the test I must admit that my old ears doesn't make any difference. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 16, 2019 14:30:30 GMT -5
Actually set my new pair of SVS SB-3000 in dual mono mode and it sounds awesome. Hey stranger! So happy to see you! You must be all out of Emo Blue! Have some on the house!
uploading pic
Cheers
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Post by pop on Sept 17, 2019 10:51:05 GMT -5
I voted mono. But if it’s strictly stereo then I’d set them up stereo
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Post by donh50 on Sept 17, 2019 20:07:35 GMT -5
Be aware you lose some placement flexibility if you run them stereo. As dual-mono you can place them where they optimize in-room response. If you run them stereo they need to be placed where they can provide a stereo image for the 0.001% or whatever recordings that take advantage of that.
Note: If the crossover is fairly high, stereo may work better, as the upper end may be high enough depending upon the roll-off to be locatable.
Still dual-mono for me and my four little subbies.
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Post by gus4emo on Sept 17, 2019 20:12:00 GMT -5
For movies, definitely mono...
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Post by lrobertson on Sept 25, 2019 8:27:19 GMT -5
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Post by widespreadpanic on Oct 6, 2019 13:19:02 GMT -5
Ha, the older we get the less lower frequency sounds we can hear.
This post and poll may be a mute point, ha.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 7, 2019 14:03:26 GMT -5
Ha, the older we get the less lower frequency sounds we can hear.
This post and poll may be a mute point, ha. Generally, high frequency hearing loss is attributed to age, Presbycusis causes a loss of HF due to stiffening of the inner ear bone joints, and long term damage to the cochlea; Tinnitus can also mask high frequencies. Low frequency hearing loss is not normally attributed to age, though as we get older we seem to be fair game for a variety of conditions, which could include the conduction problems limiting low frequency reception. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 7, 2019 18:33:29 GMT -5
Ha, the older we get the less lower frequency sounds we can hear.
This post and poll may be a mute point, ha. You right, don't know why I still worry about sound quality...  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 8, 2019 15:42:21 GMT -5
I'd be most curious to know - of those who chose "mono" in the poll, how many have ever even heard a well-tuned stereo sub setup? Because having heard true stereo subs, Mrs. Young's idiot son ain't EVER going back to mono...
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 8, 2019 20:10:57 GMT -5
My setup is well tuned, I think. The two Sub are symmetrically flanked besides the main front and everything is symmetrical in the room except for the couches, EQ by Dirac. When I selected stereo subs in XMC-1 I didn't really heard a difference but I didn't really dig deeply in listening music comparative, only a few modern tracks, but this next weekend I will go deeper with a lot more old 2 mic's stereo jazz recording of the 60's. I will come back with my thoughts.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 16, 2019 12:38:02 GMT -5
This last weekend I compared the difference between stereo and mono setup. With the XMC-1 speakers setup it's pretty easy and fast to switch between the two settings, but the Dirac has been run on dual mono setting and I suspect that to be fair in comparison It must be run also for a different setup in stereo because when I switch from the original setting that is dual mono to stereo setting the bass lost a bit of is weight...? Not so much but enough to be perceived by my old men ears.
Now for the musical restitution, theirs no doubt that it exists a difference between the two settings, I mainly listening my old 60's jazz stereo recording collection, Dave Brubeck, Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Gets, Desmond, Rollins, etc. The big improvement for stereo setting is the stereophonic image is widely opened from right to left but also from rear to front, everything is sounding a bit more relaxed atmosphere and a sense of opening and a better separation between instruments. For dual mono setting the big gain over the stereo setting is the weight of bass and the control of the room response sounds lot more spectacular, (I didn't find any better words to describe).
Like I said before, maybe I must run Dirac in stereo setting to really get the right result in stereo mode, but right on the fly it sounds superior.
I plan to upgrade my XMC-1 for the XMC-2, so I hope that Emotiva will include a stereo setting in the future firmware version for their new processors family.
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Post by geebo on Oct 16, 2019 13:03:57 GMT -5
This last weekend I compared the difference between stereo and mono setup. With the XMC-1 speakers setup it's pretty easy and fast to switch between the two settings, but the Dirac has been run on dual mono setting and I suspect that to be fair in comparison It must be run also for a different setup in stereo because when I switch from the original setting that is dual mono to stereo setting the bass lost a bit of is weight...? Not so much but enough to be perceived by my old men ears. Now for the musical restitution, theirs no doubt that it exists a difference between the two settings, I mainly listening my old 60's jazz stereo recording collection, Dave Brubeck, Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Gets, Desmond, Rollins, etc. The big improvement for stereo setting is the stereophonic image is widely opened from right to left but also from rear to front, everything is sounding a bit more relaxed atmosphere and a sense of opening and a better separation between instruments. For dual mono setting the big gain over the stereo setting is the weight of bass and the control of the room response sounds lot more spectacular, (I didn't find any better words to describe). Like I said before, maybe I must run Dirac in stereo setting to really get the right result in stereo mode, but right on the fly it sounds superior. I plan to upgrade my XMC-1 for the XMC-2, so I hope that Emotiva will include a stereo setting in the future firmware version for their new processors family. I don't think it will make a difference to Dirac how the speakers and subwoofers are set up. Only their presence or absence is needed by Dirac and if present then Dirac measures each speaker on its own and as a full range speaker. Whether you set them up as large, small, mono, stereo with whatever crossovers it doesn't matter to Dirac. At least that's the way I understand it. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 16, 2019 13:20:07 GMT -5
This last weekend I compared the difference between stereo and mono setup. With the XMC-1 speakers setup it's pretty easy and fast to switch between the two settings, but the Dirac has been run on dual mono setting and I suspect that to be fair in comparison It must be run also for a different setup in stereo because when I switch from the original setting that is dual mono to stereo setting the bass lost a bit of is weight...? Not so much but enough to be perceived by my old men ears. Now for the musical restitution, theirs no doubt that it exists a difference between the two settings, I mainly listening my old 60's jazz stereo recording collection, Dave Brubeck, Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Gets, Desmond, Rollins, etc. The big improvement for stereo setting is the stereophonic image is widely opened from right to left but also from rear to front, everything is sounding a bit more relaxed atmosphere and a sense of opening and a better separation between instruments. For dual mono setting the big gain over the stereo setting is the weight of bass and the control of the room response sounds lot more spectacular, (I didn't find any better words to describe). Like I said before, maybe I must run Dirac in stereo setting to really get the right result in stereo mode, but right on the fly it sounds superior. I plan to upgrade my XMC-1 for the XMC-2, so I hope that Emotiva will include a stereo setting in the future firmware version for their new processors family. I don't think it will make a difference to Dirac how the speakers and subwoofers are set up. Only their presence or absence is needed by Dirac and if present then Dirac measures each speaker on its own and as a full range speaker. Whether you set them up as large, small, mono, stereo with whatever crossovers it doesn't matter to Dirac. At least that's the way I understand it. It's very logical that Dirac must not do any difference between stereo and dual mono, I could not explain the difference in bass "weight" between the two...? |
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Post by fbczar on Oct 16, 2019 13:27:50 GMT -5
This last weekend I compared the difference between stereo and mono setup. With the XMC-1 speakers setup it's pretty easy and fast to switch between the two settings, but the Dirac has been run on dual mono setting and I suspect that to be fair in comparison It must be run also for a different setup in stereo because when I switch from the original setting that is dual mono to stereo setting the bass lost a bit of is weight...? Not so much but enough to be perceived by my old men ears. Now for the musical restitution, theirs no doubt that it exists a difference between the two settings, I mainly listening my old 60's jazz stereo recording collection, Dave Brubeck, Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Gets, Desmond, Rollins, etc. The big improvement for stereo setting is the stereophonic image is widely opened from right to left but also from rear to front, everything is sounding a bit more relaxed atmosphere and a sense of opening and a better separation between instruments. For dual mono setting the big gain over the stereo setting is the weight of bass and the control of the room response sounds lot more spectacular, (I didn't find any better words to describe). Like I said before, maybe I must run Dirac in stereo setting to really get the right result in stereo mode, but right on the fly it sounds superior. I plan to upgrade my XMC-1 for the XMC-2, so I hope that Emotiva will include a stereo setting in the future firmware version for their new processors family. Keith explained to me that, in the XMC-1, Dirac calibrates each sub separately in both dual mono and stereo mode. However, changing the setting from dual mono to stereo does affect the signal that is sent to the subwoofers from the XMC-1. In a dual mono setup , all of the bass is summed into a single sub channel, then sent to all the subs. While, in a "stereo subs" setup, the LFE channel goes to both subs, but the bass managed bass from the individual channels is kept separate between left and right. It does make a difference in sound stage height, depth and width in my room. I also think it improves the phantom center channel effect in stereo. Hopefully, stereo mode will be implemented in the XMC-2. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 16, 2019 13:47:09 GMT -5
I don't think you're going to find a single answer here.
First off, Stereo Subs is only going to have even a chance of being better if you have two identical subs. Furthermore, you need the ability to locate them symmetrically left/right in the room, or it won't work. (Note that this could be next to each front speaker, or one on each side, or one in each back corner.)
In theory, the sound produced by subs is totally non-locational so it should never make any difference. In practice, in some rooms, with some subs, and some crossover settings, sometimes you can notice a difference.
- In a VERY large room you may be able to hear some directionality even at low frequencies. - No crossover filter is perfect, so most subs will produce a tiny bit of output at higher frequencies, which may be noticeable. - There may be a tiny bit of distortion, or port noise, or noise from the floor vibrating, which occurs at frequencies you can locate directionally.
However, Dual Mono also has some advantages. - You have a lot more choices about where to put your subs. - Your two subs DON'T have to be identical and they don't need to be placed symmetrically. - In some cases a symmetrical arrangement is bad and putting two subs in dissimilar locations is better.
(For example, if putting the sub in a corner boosts some frequencies, while the center of a wall excites other room modes, doing one of each may allow the differences to complement rather than reinforce each other.)
Finally, with a lot of stereo music, the low bass is mono or mostly mono anyway... for a variety of reasons. (This is especially true for anything that was originally issued on vinyl - where mono bass makes record grooves easier to track by your cartridge.)
And, in most modern movies, the bass is all in the LFE channel - which is mono.
(For example, if you play a typical Dolby TrueHD movie, you're not going to have true stereo bass, because all the bass is in the single LFE channel.)
Therefore these differences, such as they are, only apply to a small subset of all content anyway.
And, last and possibly least, there is another option. Some people take two subs and stack them up together. This gives you double the output, and avoids many of the issues with interactions between them. (And, in that setup, you really probably want dual-mono.)
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 16, 2019 13:57:01 GMT -5
That is absolutely true the way Dirac works now. Each speaker is individually calibrated... which should enable them to work perfectly together... and you should be able to calculate the summed response of any of them.
However, one of the future enhancements that Dirac is promising is "the ability to calibrate speakers as a pair". In theory, this might enable you to do a more precise "fine tuning" of things like imaging by measuring left/right pairs together as well... (You could theoretically take better account of things like complex cancellations that are simply too complex to calculate from separate measurements.)
This is what Dirac is promising as a future enhancement - although whether it offers any actual benefits will remain to be seen.
I would personally expect this to be more significant for things like imagine, which takes place mostly in the midrange, rather than with bass. But we''ll have to wait and see.
This last weekend I compared the difference between stereo and mono setup. With the XMC-1 speakers setup it's pretty easy and fast to switch between the two settings, but the Dirac has been run on dual mono setting and I suspect that to be fair in comparison It must be run also for a different setup in stereo because when I switch from the original setting that is dual mono to stereo setting the bass lost a bit of is weight...? Not so much but enough to be perceived by my old men ears. Now for the musical restitution, theirs no doubt that it exists a difference between the two settings, I mainly listening my old 60's jazz stereo recording collection, Dave Brubeck, Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Gets, Desmond, Rollins, etc. The big improvement for stereo setting is the stereophonic image is widely opened from right to left but also from rear to front, everything is sounding a bit more relaxed atmosphere and a sense of opening and a better separation between instruments. For dual mono setting the big gain over the stereo setting is the weight of bass and the control of the room response sounds lot more spectacular, (I didn't find any better words to describe). Like I said before, maybe I must run Dirac in stereo setting to really get the right result in stereo mode, but right on the fly it sounds superior. I plan to upgrade my XMC-1 for the XMC-2, so I hope that Emotiva will include a stereo setting in the future firmware version for their new processors family. I don't think it will make a difference to Dirac how the speakers and subwoofers are set up. Only their presence or absence is needed by Dirac and if present then Dirac measures each speaker on its own and as a full range speaker. Whether you set them up as large, small, mono, stereo with whatever crossovers it doesn't matter to Dirac. At least that's the way I understand it. |
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