|
|
Post by overtheair on Aug 31, 2019 0:13:46 GMT -5
I suggest the OP, and indeed anyone asking for feedback on cables, should request that when people provide feedback they also confirm exactly what signal was being sent, and in consequence exactly what bitrate was being sent over the cable. Probably also ask how they confirmed what signal was being sent and reported as received. See the attached chart from CEDIA that spells out exactly what resolution, frame rate, chroma sub-sampling, bit depth and HDR format capabilities drive what data rates. You probably want your HDMI cable to support the full 18 Gbps for 4K, 60Hz, 4:2:2, 12-bit, HDR10, HLG, Dolby Vision.
Just showing a 4K image is not enough because even at 60Hz its possible for a signal to only need as little as 9 Gbps with 4:2:0 sub-sampling at 8-bits. Even with HDR 10 & HLG/10-bits its still only ~11Gbps and even with Dolby Vision/12-bits its still less than 14 Gbps when using 4:2:0.
|
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,434
|
Post by Lsc on Sept 2, 2019 14:11:58 GMT -5
“Must be the cables”
So now I have 1 HDMI 2.1 cable from Amazon and 2 Hdmi 2.0 premium certified cables from amazon.
The HDMI 2.1 cable is feeding the video from the XMC2 to the TV.
The picture from the Sony Blu-ray player is better than its ever been and things seem to lock in a little faster.
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
|
Post by LCSeminole on Sept 2, 2019 14:24:25 GMT -5
“Must be the cables” So now I have 1 HDMI 2.1 cable from Amazon and 2 Hdmi 2.0 premium certified cables from amazon. The HDMI 2.1 cable is feeding the video from the XMC2 to the TV. The picture from the Sony Blu-ray player is better than its ever been and things seem to lock in a little faster. While my Emotiva Z-HDMI cables have given me no reason to change them out, I’m highly curious if HDMI 2.1/8K cables will give a faster input change/ lock-on, or just not have problems with HDMI 2.0b/4K equipment, especially with the 48Gbps bandwidth. Thus I needed to take a break from the Weather Channel and ordered 4 of these. They should be here by next weekend, so I'll update my experience with them at that time. www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=31229&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8c2s8Oyy5AIVh56fCh3VnwHSEAUYASABEgIn5fD_BwE |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 3, 2019 0:21:29 GMT -5
As overtheair suggested I decided to jot down some info as I watched things the first few days with the RMC-1. I documented my three 4K devices: the DirecTV C61K client while watching the free 4K channel 104. The Oppo UDP-203 when watching a demo cut featuring Dolby Vision and Atmos off a USB stick, and while watching a 4K UHD Disk with Dolby Vision and Atmos. I also documented the results of the AppleTV4K DV & HDR tests (more challenging than anything I can stream). I wrote down what the source reported it was sending, what the RMC-1 showed it was receiving, and what my TV reported it got. All my sources are connected to the RMC-1 with 8 ft Monoprice Premium Certified Ultra Slim HDMI cables (8’ MPPCUS), a 4’ MPPCUS connects the RMC to the Sony 85x900F. I’ve reported many times that these cables work well for me (with now both the XMC-1 and RMC-1); along with my viewing, these readings are what I’ve used to come to this conclusion. I didn’t report any audio readings because I didn’t think it relevant, but they were all as expected. I’ve highlighted two tests in red that I believe are the ‘acid tests’ for the cables, that is they probably have the highest bandwidth (though I have no way of proving that), both are 4K Dolby Vision @ 60 Hz. C61K —8’ MPPCUS—> RMC-1 —4’ MPPCUS—> Sony900F C61K: Channel 104 Info Claims 4K HDR RMC-1: Reports 2160@24Hz 4:4:4 HLG 900F: Reports 4K/2160p HDR UDP203 —8’ MPPCUS—> RMC-1 —4’ MPPCUS—> Sony900F
UDP 203: Reports 60p (LG Amaze DV demo, USB Flash Drive)
RMC-1: Reports 2160@60Hz Dolby Vision
900F: Reports 4K/2160p HDR / Dolby Vision (also flashes DV badge)UDP203 —8’ MPPCUS—> RMC-1 —4’ MPPCUS—> Sony900F UDP 203: Reports 24p (The Dark Tower UHD / Atmos) RMC-1: Reports 2160@24Hz Dolby Vision 900F: Reports 4K/2160p HDR Dolby Vision ATV4K —8’ MPPCUS—> RMC-1 —4’ MPPCUS—> Sony900F
ATV4K: 4K@60Hz Dolby Vision (DV Test)
RMC-1: Reports 2160@60Hz Dolby Vision
900F: Reports 4K/2160p HDR Dolby Vision (also flashes DV badge)ATV4K —8’ MPPCUS—> RMC-1 —4’ MPPCUS—> Sony900F ATV4K: 4K@60Hz HDR (HDR Test) RMC-1: Reports 2160@60Hz HDR 900F: Reports 4K/2160p HDR Note: Passes ATV4K “Check HDMI Connection” cable testMonoprice Premium Certified Ultra Slim HDMI Cables |
|
|
|
Post by jagman on Sept 3, 2019 1:33:58 GMT -5
“Must be the cables” So now I have 1 HDMI 2.1 cable from Amazon and 2 Hdmi 2.0 premium certified cables from amazon. The HDMI 2.1 cable is feeding the video from the XMC2 to the TV. The picture from the Sony Blu-ray player is better than its ever been and things seem to lock in a little faster. While my Emotiva Z-HDMI cables have given me no reason to change them out, I’m highly curious if HDMI 2.1/8K cables will give a faster input change/ lock-on, or just not have problems with HDMI 2.0b/4K equipment, especially with the 48Gbps bandwidth. Thus I needed to take a break from the Weather Channel and ordered 4 of these. They should be here by next weekend, so I'll update my experience with them at that time. www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=31229&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8c2s8Oyy5AIVh56fCh3VnwHSEAUYASABEgIn5fD_BwEHow stiff is the cable? Is it reasonably pliable? I want to get the 1.5ft version but I've run into probs with their old high end cables because they are so stiff that they put pressure on the HDMI ports. TIA. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
|
Post by LCSeminole on Sept 3, 2019 19:37:42 GMT -5
While my Emotiva Z-HDMI cables have given me no reason to change them out, I’m highly curious if HDMI 2.1/8K cables will give a faster input change/ lock-on, or just not have problems with HDMI 2.0b/4K equipment, especially with the 48Gbps bandwidth. Thus I needed to take a break from the Weather Channel and ordered 4 of these. They should be here by next weekend, so I'll update my experience with them at that time. www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=31229&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8c2s8Oyy5AIVh56fCh3VnwHSEAUYASABEgIn5fD_BwEHow stiff is the cable? Is it reasonably pliable? I want to get the 1.5ft version but I've run into probs with their old high end cables because they are so stiff that they put pressure on the HDMI ports. TIA. I should know on Friday when they’re due to be delivered. |
|
Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
|
Post by Lonnie on Sept 4, 2019 7:53:40 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone.
8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable?
I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were.
Lonnie
|
|
|
|
Post by davidl81 on Sept 4, 2019 8:02:57 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie I already have to go active for my projector to get 4K HDR. My cable was $75ish. I'm installing my RMC this weekend swapping out the AV8802A and I am hoping that the active cable still works. Also even when 8k TV's come out it will be years before any actual source material is out on the market. By then cable prices will drop. I even bet right now a majority of people with 4k HDR tv's are not using the correct cables, and most likely their source material is not sending 4K HDR 4:4:4, but they don't know any better. |
|
|
|
Post by lrobertson on Sept 4, 2019 8:03:13 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie I’d like to buy once cry once. 70-200 seems like a large gap. I’ll go out on a limb and say I’d prefer 70. 8k TVs are a thing and jvc already has their faux 8k so if I spend a lot I mine as well have it geared toward 8k. Sounds like for my long runs anyway I need active just for 4k. |
|
|
|
Post by graphic on Sept 4, 2019 8:51:04 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie I spent weeks, maybe turning into months, trying to get 4k cables working with a projector, and almost as long sorting out short ones for sources. That was more than two years ago already, and there are more choices now that work. Don’t recall the prices, but it was more than I paid for the custom RGB cable to my old Barco CRT projector, nearly 20 years ago. 4k was enough of an adventure I doubt I would tackle 8k, even if I thought I wanted it. My eyes have enough to see with 4k. |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Sept 4, 2019 9:39:49 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie Time and tech marches forward, 8K is the next step weather you/we like it / want it or not! Other companies will be building and selling them as there will always be a market for “the next best thing” ! Over time prices will drop just like most electronics and they will become the norm. Have you tried to purchase a 1080 TV lately? They were the norm not so bery long ago. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 4, 2019 10:37:54 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie I use 8’ and 4’ lengths, if I needed or wanted 8K I’d be willing to spend that on cables to get good (or any) performance. I’d be willing to swap my 4’ to the TV now if someone made one (not 6’). But I have no plans for 8K and don’t expect to consider it for at least 5 years. What interests me about 8K are the 100” and larger micro-LEDs being shown (not the resolution), but they’ll have to get much less expensive, and I’m very happy with my Sony 4K. Now, if implementing HDMI 2.1 (in the new SSPs) promised faster and more effective switching with existing sources, I might be interested in upgrading, even without needing the 48G speed. Maybe some part of eARC would be compelling as well, though as far as I know Sony has no plans of adding it to my TV. |
|
|
|
Post by tchaik on Sept 4, 2019 11:01:09 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie I believe 8K will go the way of 3D. a niche market if at all. tchaik...... |
|
|
|
Post by tslack on Sept 4, 2019 11:26:37 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie I believe 8K will go the way of 3D. a niche market if at all. tchaik...... No way. As long as the video standard is backward compatible (i.e. upsampling), marketing will keep pushing consumers forward, as always. And the early adopters and engineers will pay the price. BTW, the Monoprice 8K cables are not expensive. The 1.5/3/6 foot lengths are on sale now for $5.86/$7.90/$9.00. Mine are working fine with 4K and are not too stiff (2" turning radius). Edit: Ahh, expensive active cables - got it. |
|
|
|
Post by cwt on Sept 4, 2019 13:32:41 GMT -5
I would put it way down the list especially when 2.1 features that are popular like E-ARC are available with 2.0a . Current 4k bd's are a mixture of 2k upscaled dcp's and true 4k ; camera technology is yonks away from 8k ; something to consider also - "It has been said that 35mm film has a native resolution of 4k and 16mm film around 1080p." Its a bit technical but Modulation Transfer Function at high spatial frequencies is a determinant of whether fine detail is visible on say a 1080p disc eg MTF holds true especially with any possible future 8k disc player let alone any streaming.. We have the important factors already - HDR and WCG ; that's whats important  Imagine too trying to incorporate 8k passthrough for a pre pro that has all the fancy gaming features as well then consider 2 hdmi out devices like exist now with the avr/pr pro just handling the audio ; with E-ARC the display can handle switching .. |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Sept 4, 2019 15:50:00 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie I would only need one 5 metre active cable as the sources and processors are within .75 metre cable reach of each other. One cable at $70 to $200 isn’t a large % of the other costs associated with moving to 8K. Compared to the cost of the TV, sources and processor the cable isn’t remotely close to being a deal breaker. My issue with 8K would be fitting a screen large enough to make it worthwhile. Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by multicore on Sept 4, 2019 16:07:41 GMT -5
I currently do not have any interest in 8K for the following reasons:
a) I still am not satisfied with my 4K implementation including cables
b) I have no desire to be an early adopter again as was the case for 4K (I will certainly wait a couple of years for price to drop and kinks to be worked out)
c) 8K may never take off, for the most part, it is a way for CE companies to keep us on the treadmill (marketing hype)
d) I don't see content being available for quite some time
e) discs are dying and streaming just means more compression (no broadcast reception where I live)
f) the reality for most humans is that you cannot see the difference from 12 feet, even on a 75" display
g) I agree with cwt that improving HDR/DV and WCG offers much more with respect to picture quality than 8K does
Just my humble opinions
|
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,434
|
Post by Lsc on Sept 4, 2019 16:21:21 GMT -5
So here is a question for everyone. 8K/ 48 gig can only be sent down a maximum 6 foot long cable passively. Beyond 6 feet you have to go to active cables. How many of you are willing to invest 70.00 to 200.00 a cable? I'm just curious because going to 8K may sound wonderful, but the jump in cost is huge. So the responses here will give me an idea of whether or not 8K will take off or die on the vine as it were. Lonnie I don’t plan on going 8k anytime soon. I just got around to getting the 4K right with the LG OLED and the XMC2. So hopefully by the time I’m ready to go 8k - circa 2023-2024, I can buy a $12 cable. 8k May take a while before it goes mainstream |
|
|
|
Post by ewiles on Sept 4, 2019 16:46:13 GMT -5
For 8K to be visibly/noticeably better than 4K it requires a massive TV. See the chart on optimal viewing distance here. www.petra.com/blog/2019/04/16/be-the-expert-8k-tv/I've heard that most 8K TV's are going to start at 77" and go up from there. I don't know about you guys but 77" is too large for my living room. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 4, 2019 17:37:13 GMT -5
For 8K to be visibly/noticeably better than 4K it requires a massive TV. See the chart on optimal viewing distance here. www.petra.com/blog/2019/04/16/be-the-expert-8k-tv/I've heard that most 8K TV's are going to start at 77" and go up from there. I don't know about you guys but 77" is too large for my living room. Exactly! 8K needs to be big, this 100” is about right, though I could go a little bigger, but in no hurry.  |
|
