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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 20, 2019 18:43:59 GMT -5
I don't know the answer for sure but I think that products that rely on DSP chips are dependent for a certain level of coding from the chip supplier. 16 channels seems to be the max that these chips do without using multiple chips. The programing to use multiple chips is probably challenging. Also I know that some channels are maybe there for bi-amping speakers or for multiple subs or for matrixing. Also Storm uses TI chips, not the ADI chips that Emo uses. I might not be understanding what chips are in charge of decoding but one of nospam’s quotes of big Dan states the main system runs on a TI Sitara AM1808. “The Griffin Lite's internal A5's manage each chips housekeeping. The main system is controlled by a TI Sitara AM1808. This is a nice A9 running our Linux OS.” My understanding is that the TI processor chip is for the basic operating system of the RMC-1 I/0 switching and GUI interfacing (all Emotiva specific functions). One ADI chip is for the immersive proprietary codecs and the other is for Direc. I believe that an additional ADI chip will come with an immersive channel expansion card. Certain commands would have to be passed to the ADI chips by the TI main OS processor. 16 channelAtmos decoding and 11 channel DTS X decoding as provided by ADI / Dolby / Dts either preloaded or to be loaded by Emotiva into the ADI chip. I may be full of it, but in my mind that’s what goes on here. To go beyond 16 will require new code from ADI/Dolby/DTS (DTS X Pro) and which may also require some special bridging software to use more than 1 ADI chip for higher immersive channel count.
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Post by lrobertson on Sept 20, 2019 21:53:50 GMT -5
I thought it was interesting they spoke of arrays on the latest podcast. It could of just been Big Dan’s language for larger layouts but I wonder if their plan to move past 11.1.8 isn’t larger supported discrete layouts but rear and/or side bed channel arrays. Keith seemed knowledgeable about the science behind making arrays work before. Maybe this is their proprietary upmix method they eluded they were still researching. Wouldn’t be such a bad thing if this aided a decoding limit of 20 channels. Not that I wouldn’t prefer a system capable of more discrete playback on the 28 but if it costs 20k+ I’m good.
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Post by cwt on Sept 21, 2019 1:14:03 GMT -5
I agree. I can’t imagine there will be vastly different concepts from the current object audio but at the very least let’s say with the intro of the RMC-2 I would still hope a board swap here or there would allow me to effectively have an RMC-2 with my original 16-28 quad DAC’s and whatever other hardware doesn’t have to be swapped. I can see developments in the mixing with AI and ray traced audio coming but it’s hard to imagine a reason to develop a new codec that does something these object audio codecs already existing can’t. I take it back about not asking for a Trinnov. The RMC-2 codec board (or RMC-3D, XMC-3D, etc)should allow for XYZ inputs to speakers for personalized layouts. One step closer to asking for a Trinnov capability with its associated cost. Easily a feature people would pay more for if needed if the cost could be kept down. With the proviso of Keiths practicality ; I couldn't not neglect to mention Theta Casablanca's dac upgrades so don't give up on main board etc upgrades . That said I found an egregious example of the difference in cost of a dac upgrade for a Proceed vs a Theta www.audioreview.com/product/amplification/a-v-preamplifier/theta-digital/casablanca.html
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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 21, 2019 8:31:50 GMT -5
This Theta example is 16 years old. Proceed was cancelled a long time ago. I don't think a company can exist on making one model and then upgrading it forever unless it charges extremely excessive amounts for the upgrades and is satisfied to sell to one percenters only who can afford it.
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Post by lrobertson on Sept 21, 2019 9:06:17 GMT -5
It sounded like what was being drawn on, but I may have read into it wrong, is thinking of changing out DAC’s to modernize a unit isn’t going to happen which in our case I don’t see a reason we’d really want to with the quality they are. However adapting an old system’s DAC’s to a new OS was possible but the limitations being the DAC’s as the lowest common denominator as to how well it could be upgraded.. I’m more than happy to try to learn here if I got it wrong..
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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 21, 2019 9:13:38 GMT -5
The other thread was started by a non RMC-1 owner, who still doesn't have one. It was started so early that you have to go 10 pages in to find the 1st actual owners (maybe a slight exaggeration, but you get the drift). Then you don't really know that people are owners or not unless they show an RMC-1 in their signature and many people don't fill out signatures. Then you have RMC-1 owners who don't understand immersive sound, how it is designed, what limitations this version or that version has as to number of channels served, the recommended speaker locations, and what upmixers actually do and on and on. So you and I and many others comment trying to create some understanding from what we have learned here and elsewhere, but really none of us are privy to the inner industry workings. Emotiva plays it close to the chest, stumbles on what it does release, and gives us little info on what is entailed for future promised add ons like expansion boards to become viable. Its all very confusing because we are dealing with a company that professes to be transparent but which in fact is very guarded. Still, very few if any companies engage as extensively in talking to consumers as does Emotiva. Right now I am not confident that Emotiva can pull off everything they promised with this product, and I think those promises, given the DSPs they chose to base the product on, were committed to before the tools to fully unleash the full power of these DSP was available, especially multiple DSPs strapped together. I don't know the details of Emotiva engineering and I don't expect to know them, but I think the path they need to navigate yet could be revealed to us a little more.
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Post by cwt on Sept 21, 2019 14:06:13 GMT -5
This Theta example is 16 years old. Proceed was cancelled a long time ago. I don't think a company can exist on making one model and then upgrading it forever unless it charges extremely excessive amounts for the upgrades and is satisfied to sell to one percenters only who can afford it. Yeah ; I was guessing it was a Proceed AVP he switched too . In hindsight that never got hdmi decoding even so a false economy . Just illustrates that a decoding board with a few fly lead iec type connectors like an Emo has is another level of practicality to replace compared to a dac board with all the analogue stages ;ics ; analogue volume control and capacitors .. Now that would not be cheap The architecture of the RMC1 reminded me of the well laid out pcb's of a Krell Foundation which got upgrades to its processing board but Emo upgrades are much better value ; especially compared to D&M Holdings products
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 21, 2019 16:25:06 GMT -5
I have simple request, other than fixing bugs and adding speed. I want RMC to show active speakers for the current format on the info window. Not active as Lonnie miunderstood it with showing on and off as sound is played through a channel. Rather which speakers are active for the format. Like most other manufacturers do..
Also in the future.. Please please add a GUI. Everything gets so much simpler for the user.. Even a half bad GUI is better than a text based setup. Also adding a help text explaining the option your on, like OPPO has, is good IMO.
I’d also like a little more ”let’s see what we can do” rather than ”it can’t be done because of xxxx” type of communication. It seems most user requests, big or small, have been answered with the latter..
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Post by jsmart10779 on Sept 25, 2019 0:23:57 GMT -5
Im having a few problems with my RMC 1...i wonder if anyone else is having these same problems because I’m getting nowhere with emotiva or at least no where with the one rep...he rather give me a refund rather than give me a new unit which is not what i want...i want the RMC 1 to just work the way it should work. . The main issue is sometimes when switching inputs regardless of the input (HDMI, Fiber optic or Coaxial Digital) and getting “please wait” on the tv screen like it always does when switching inputs, but sometimes for minutes at a time? When the “please wait” is displayed there’s no sound....almost like the unit is frozen. Sometimes it goes back to the input u were switching out of and other times i have to turn off from the main power switch in the back because the the buttons on the RMC 1 r frozen too. The second issue and this issue only happened a few times, when controlling the volume the volume comes up on the tv screen and that gets frozen on the screee and obviously the sound goes off and u can’t do anything until the unit gets out of that glitch and then back to normal. And the 3rd issue was after the latest firmware update the sound started to sound very harsh. Almost like a blown out speaker sound....and it sounded different on each input....that was fixed after hours of troubleshooting with and without the Rep when the rep sent me a low frequency firmware update of some sort (which he put on the email that he wasn’t to confident it would fix my low frequency issue) thank god he spoke to his co worker because it fixed the low frequency issue. Now after multiple calls and emails with that rep it’s still the same issue with the “please wait” freezing. The rep seems to think it’s not the RMC 1....i changed every cable, it happens with my cable box input, bluray, Sonos, bluesound... i even plugged the power conditioner into an outlet on a different circuit, i plugged the RMC 1 into a different circuit to bypass the power conditioner and still the same problem. But He still thinks there’s nothing wrong with this RMC 1. Please tell me someone is having or had a similar issue and how it was repaired.
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Post by davidl81 on Sept 25, 2019 6:47:26 GMT -5
Im having a few problems with my RMC 1...i wonder if anyone else is having these same problems because I’m getting nowhere with emotiva or at least no where with the one rep...he rather give me a refund rather than give me a new unit which is not what i want...i want the RMC 1 to just work the way it should work. . The main issue is sometimes when switching inputs regardless of the input (HDMI, Fiber optic or Coaxial Digital) and getting “please wait” on the tv screen like it always does when switching inputs, but sometimes for minutes at a time? When the “please wait” is displayed there’s no sound....almost like the unit is frozen. Sometimes it goes back to the input u were switching out of and other times i have to turn off from the main power switch in the back because the the buttons on the RMC 1 r frozen too. The second issue and this issue only happened a few times, when controlling the volume the volume comes up on the tv screen and that gets frozen on the screee and obviously the sound goes off and u can’t do anything until the unit gets out of that glitch and then back to normal. And the 3rd issue was after the latest firmware update the sound started to sound very harsh. Almost like a blown out speaker sound....and it sounded different on each input....that was fixed after hours of troubleshooting with and without the Rep when the rep sent me a low frequency firmware update of some sort (which he put on the email that he wasn’t to confident it would fix my low frequency issue) thank god he spoke to his co worker because it fixed the low frequency issue. Now after multiple calls and emails with that rep it’s still the same issue with the “please wait” freezing. The rep seems to think it’s not the RMC 1....i changed every cable, it happens with my cable box input, bluray, Sonos, bluesound... i even plugged the power conditioner into an outlet on a different circuit, i plugged the RMC 1 into a different circuit to bypass the power conditioner and still the same problem. But He still thinks there’s nothing wrong with this RMC 1. Please tell me someone is having or had a similar issue and how it was repaired. Are you running firmware 1.5?
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 27, 2019 15:18:01 GMT -5
Im having a few problems with my RMC 1...i wonder if anyone else is having these same problems because I’m getting nowhere with emotiva or at least no where with the one rep...he rather give me a refund rather than give me a new unit which is not what i want...i want the RMC 1 to just work the way it should work. . The main issue is sometimes when switching inputs regardless of the input (HDMI, Fiber optic or Coaxial Digital) and getting “please wait” on the tv screen like it always does when switching inputs, but sometimes for minutes at a time? When the “please wait” is displayed there’s no sound....almost like the unit is frozen. Sometimes it goes back to the input u were switching out of and other times i have to turn off from the main power switch in the back because the the buttons on the RMC 1 r frozen too. The second issue and this issue only happened a few times, when controlling the volume the volume comes up on the tv screen and that gets frozen on the screee and obviously the sound goes off and u can’t do anything until the unit gets out of that glitch and then back to normal. And the 3rd issue was after the latest firmware update the sound started to sound very harsh. Almost like a blown out speaker sound....and it sounded different on each input....that was fixed after hours of troubleshooting with and without the Rep when the rep sent me a low frequency firmware update of some sort (which he put on the email that he wasn’t to confident it would fix my low frequency issue) thank god he spoke to his co worker because it fixed the low frequency issue. Now after multiple calls and emails with that rep it’s still the same issue with the “please wait” freezing. The rep seems to think it’s not the RMC 1....i changed every cable, it happens with my cable box input, bluray, Sonos, bluesound... i even plugged the power conditioner into an outlet on a different circuit, i plugged the RMC 1 into a different circuit to bypass the power conditioner and still the same problem. But He still thinks there’s nothing wrong with this RMC 1. Please tell me someone is having or had a similar issue and how it was repaired. Are you running firmware 1.5? These problems didn’t happen on any of the three latest firmwares.
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 27, 2019 15:25:22 GMT -5
Im having a few problems with my RMC 1...i wonder if anyone else is having these same problems because I’m getting nowhere with emotiva or at least no where with the one rep...he rather give me a refund rather than give me a new unit which is not what i want...i want the RMC 1 to just work the way it should work. . The main issue is sometimes when switching inputs regardless of the input (HDMI, Fiber optic or Coaxial Digital) and getting “please wait” on the tv screen like it always does when switching inputs, but sometimes for minutes at a time? When the “please wait” is displayed there’s no sound....almost like the unit is frozen. Sometimes it goes back to the input u were switching out of and other times i have to turn off from the main power switch in the back because the the buttons on the RMC 1 r frozen too. The second issue and this issue only happened a few times, when controlling the volume the volume comes up on the tv screen and that gets frozen on the screee and obviously the sound goes off and u can’t do anything until the unit gets out of that glitch and then back to normal. And the 3rd issue was after the latest firmware update the sound started to sound very harsh. Almost like a blown out speaker sound....and it sounded different on each input....that was fixed after hours of troubleshooting with and without the Rep when the rep sent me a low frequency firmware update of some sort (which he put on the email that he wasn’t to confident it would fix my low frequency issue) thank god he spoke to his co worker because it fixed the low frequency issue. Now after multiple calls and emails with that rep it’s still the same issue with the “please wait” freezing. The rep seems to think it’s not the RMC 1....i changed every cable, it happens with my cable box input, bluray, Sonos, bluesound... i even plugged the power conditioner into an outlet on a different circuit, i plugged the RMC 1 into a different circuit to bypass the power conditioner and still the same problem. But He still thinks there’s nothing wrong with this RMC 1. Please tell me someone is having or had a similar issue and how it was repaired. Try disconnect each source and try them one by one.. Does the problems disappear? To answer your question, no this is certainly not normal and have not read anyone else these issues.. Please wait for several seconds is/has been normal, but not freezing and certainly not for minutes..
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Post by lrobertson on Feb 1, 2020 13:41:50 GMT -5
I’d like to see 7.2.7 (Dts:x pro and hopefully eventually Auromatic with center vog) or at least 7.3.6 layout support with all three processors. I have a 20 x 40ft great room and having experienced 7.2.4 with the a1 rear speakers bouncing off the ceiling I realize I would much rather have direct radiating in ceiling speakers to match my C1 front heights. I hear Emotiva has some in development and the length of my room would benefit from more overheads.
With this new talk of Emotiva moving towards arm processing over dsp I sure hope they would find a way to move those of us who hope to push well past 16 channels into the new system while not taking a loss on the RMC-1 unit if the processing internals go obsolete. I still have a dedicated listening room I’d like to go crazy on.
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Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,344
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Post by Lsc on Feb 1, 2020 13:54:00 GMT -5
I’d like to see 7.2.7 (Dts:x pro and hopefully eventually Auromatic with center vog) or at least 7.3.6 layout support with all three processors. I have a 20 x 40ft great room and having experienced 7.2.4 with the a1 rear speakers bouncing off the ceiling I realize I would much rather have direct radiating in ceiling speakers to match my C1 front heights. I hear Emotiva has some in development and the length of my room would benefit from more overheads. With this new talk of Emotiva moving towards arm processing over dsp I sure hope they would find a way to move those of us who hope to push well past 16 channels into the new system while not taking a loss on the RMC-1 unit if the processing internals go obsolete. I still have a dedicated listening room I’d like to go crazy on. Don’t you think this processing change is something that would be implemented in 5 years or so?
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Post by lrobertson on Feb 1, 2020 14:48:06 GMT -5
I’d like to see 7.2.7 (Dts:x pro and hopefully eventually Auromatic with center vog) or at least 7.3.6 layout support with all three processors. I have a 20 x 40ft great room and having experienced 7.2.4 with the a1 rear speakers bouncing off the ceiling I realize I would much rather have direct radiating in ceiling speakers to match my C1 front heights. I hear Emotiva has some in development and the length of my room would benefit from more overheads. With this new talk of Emotiva moving towards arm processing over dsp I sure hope they would find a way to move those of us who hope to push well past 16 channels into the new system while not taking a loss on the RMC-1 unit if the processing internals go obsolete. I still have a dedicated listening room I’d like to go crazy on. Don’t you think this processing change is something that would be implemented in 5 years or so? It would seem strange to use all their money and R&D dialing in this system which is said to be superior sound quality wise but 1000x more difficult with the plans to abandon it for a easier system later with less sq... Unless they plan on abandoning the 28 channel support for say a 32 later on and stick to the 11.5.8 ceiling with this one. At some point it would seem they would be too heavily invested in having this system work but I guess you could be right and we just lose future support with this processing board. In my book 11.5.8 is 8 channels light from delivering on a true 28 channel where the LFE can be handled externally. As of right now Keith made it sound like they would do their best to keep up with what Dolby was making available which is soon to be 13.1.10 so I am curious to know what their plan is in this regard. In less than 5 years I imagine 17.1.10 will also be available from Dolby.
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Post by ottaone on Feb 8, 2020 9:06:07 GMT -5
Any mention of HDMI 2.1? I saw Keith’s reference to HDMI 3.0 as an example but any official mention of 2.1?
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Post by junchoon on Feb 8, 2020 18:23:04 GMT -5
The only “feature” to add on is
Stability
Looks like it won’t happens this year though. Not sure about next year too
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Post by lrobertson on Feb 8, 2020 18:33:45 GMT -5
The only “feature” to add on is Stability Looks like it won’t happens this year though. Not sure about next year too It’s not so unstable I wouldn’t want the channel expansions. I’ll be upgrading the channel count the day they are offered.
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hi
Minor Hero
Posts: 48
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Post by hi on Mar 2, 2020 2:40:12 GMT -5
Some of the speakers in my home cinema are active speakers with AES/EBU in.
I would love AES/EBU out expansion boards which were free assignable, for example: Out 1 = Stereo, Sub 1, Center, 24bit, 96khz, Out2 = Mono, Front Left, 24bit, 96khz Out3 = Mono, Front Right, 24bit, 96khz Out4 = None
And I also would love, when all RMC-1 outputs were free assignable or, when Front Wide also could be configured as Hight / Top speakers.
Michel
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sylex
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 9
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Post by sylex on Mar 11, 2020 11:56:35 GMT -5
On Bass-Management, the manual said "The Center Sub output may be configured as either LFE, Mono, or None. The Left/Right Subs may be configured as either Mono, Dual Mono, Height Speakers, or None."
I had a XMC-1. I have 2 Subs and some Buttkickers/EarthQuake. With XMC-1 Stereo was possible on Subs. With RMC-1 LFE could be separate. But I need 2 Stereo Subs outputs who receive LFE + Bass-Management from Left and Right Small Speakers separately and 1 output who receive only LFE for my ButtKickers/EarthQuake.
On Left/Right Subs, more options are needed : - Pure Mono (only Bass-Management, from all Small speakers) - Dual Pure Mono - Stereo (LFE + Specific Bass-Management) - Pure Stereo (only Specific Bass-Management / no LFE) - Front/Rear (LFE + Specific Bass-Management [Front / Rear] Rear could have 180° phase) - Pure Front/Rear (only Specific BM / no LFE)
And we need to adjust balance between LFE and BM levels…
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