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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 15, 2019 9:29:15 GMT -5
I think that Roon has lost my business. I've been paying by the month while deciding whether to buy a lifetime membership or not.
Apple just came out with a 64-bit OS (OS-X Catalina). Roon immediately lost the ability to see my external USB music drive, instead returning a message "Error loading folder - unauthorized." Roon claims to be working on a fix, but for now their website provides the following advice:
"We are aware of some issues on macOS Catalina related to file access and security. We’re hoping to have a fix live soon, but for the moment we are recommending against updating to Catalina for Roon users who run their Core on macOS."
To which I say Roon obviously doesn't give a s**t about their Apple customers, or this would have been fixed BEFORE the introduction of Catalina. Other software manufacturers used the time before the introduction of Catalina to prepare their products. Roon didn't.
So now I sit without music because Roon "is hoping to have a fix live soon."
Bah Humbug!
Boomzilla
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Post by creimes on Oct 15, 2019 9:47:06 GMT -5
Welcome to the wonderful world of never ending OS and software updates, it's almost like we as society(most of us) are not happy unless there are constant changes and updates, for example new phones and OS every 6 to 12 months haha.
Chad
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 15, 2019 10:32:10 GMT -5
Roon - or any other software company - can only "fix" problems they know about. Obviously Apple did not see fit to provide them an advance of this new OS for beta testing, most likely. Be assured your supposition that Roon does not give a sh** about Apple users is completely wrong.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 15, 2019 10:48:11 GMT -5
I agree with DYohn, Catalina has been challenging on many fronts, for many developers, including Apple. There are many threads on the Apple discussion pages outlining problems like this, I’m participating in two. First, they ‘broke’ HDMI for many people using Mac mini 2018’s and 4K TVs or monitors as displays; if you power off your mini the display won’t reconnect (there are workarounds, but Apple has now recommended mini 2018 users not upgrade to Catalina). Second, the ‘Music App’ that replaces iTunes, wont work with the iOS Remote App, pretty big deal. There are many more, but these two affect me. I’m sure you had to realize that a “.0 release” was one step away from beta, and wouldn’t be perfect, I think many are surprised how .0 Catalina is. The moral of my story, don’t just blame Roon, plenty of responsibility in Cupertino (and I’m admittedly a Fanboy). |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 15, 2019 13:20:18 GMT -5
So what's a reasonable strategy for keeping an OS up to date? Wait six months from the final release date to install? Wait a year?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 15, 2019 13:21:40 GMT -5
I agree with DYohn, Catalina has been challenging on many fronts, for many developers, including Apple. There are many threads on the Apple discussion pages outlining problems like this, I’m participating in two. First, they ‘broke’ HDMI for many people using Mac mini 2018’s and 4K TVs or monitors as displays; if you power off your mini the display won’t reconnect (there are workarounds, but Apple has now recommended mini 2018 users not upgrade to Catalina). Second, the ‘Music App’ that replaces iTunes, wont work with the iOS Remote App, pretty big deal. There are many more, but these two affect me. I’m sure you had to realize that a “.0 release” was one step away from beta, and wouldn’t be perfect, I think many are surprised how .0 Catalina is. The moral of my story, don’t just blame Roon, plenty of responsibility in Cupertino (and I’m admittedly a Fanboy). Yep. Hey boomzilla, since you want to be mad at somebody, be mad at Apple. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 15, 2019 14:08:08 GMT -5
So what's a reasonable strategy for keeping an OS up to date? Wait six months from the final release date to install? Wait a year? My suggestion is to research the update on line before installing, and take advantage of other people's experiences. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 15, 2019 14:09:19 GMT -5
So what's a reasonable strategy for keeping an OS up to date? Wait six months from the final release date to install? Wait a year? Use Windows 10. It's a great software and the cost of the equipment is far less. But seriously since I know you won't go that direction, it does say they are recommending "against updating to Catalina for Roon users who run their CORE on Mac OS" Can you run your core on an Apple product that does not use Catalina? If so, I would try that. Mark |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 15, 2019 14:09:42 GMT -5
I think that far too many people these days have lost track of an important point... The purpose of the computer is to run the software... THE COMPUTER SERVES THE SOFTWARE YOU RUN ON IT... and not the other way around. The whole purpose of a computer is to run software - and together the two become a useful tool.
Therefore, if the reason you own the computer is to run several specific programs, then it is its job to do so. If the programs you need are running just fine with the version of the operating system that's installed then there is no reason to update either.
Arguing about who is responsible to update their software to work with the other guy's is really moot. It's up to YOU not to update either one until you're sure you can do so and not break something. (And, if either company FORCES you to do so, or updates their side without asking if you want to, then they are to blame when they break it.)
You no more NEED to update your software, or your operating system, than you NEED to trade in your car on this year's model, and you should think about it the same way. It would be nice if both companies come out with updates that actually improve something now and then... And it would be nice if they coordinate their efforts to ensure that they continue to work together... But the final choice is yours...
If you run Roon on your Apple computer and it works just fine now... And Roon will not work on Catalina... Then INSTALLING CATALINA WILL BREAK YOUR ROON COMPUTER... So it would probably be a good idea not to do it.
(And, hopefully, eventually they will get it sorted out... and maybe then it will be a good idea.)
So what's a reasonable strategy for keeping an OS up to date? Wait six months from the final release date to install? Wait a year? |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 15, 2019 14:10:54 GMT -5
Perhaps, if you really like Roon, you should consider switching to a brand of computer that still works properly with it.  (Or simply refuse the update.)
I think that Roon has lost my business. I've been paying by the month while deciding whether to buy a lifetime membership or not. Apple just came out with a 64-bit OS (OS-X Catalina). Roon immediately lost the ability to see my external USB music drive, instead returning a message "Error loading folder - unauthorized." Roon claims to be working on a fix, but for now their website provides the following advice: "We are aware of some issues on macOS Catalina related to file access and security. We’re hoping to have a fix live soon, but for the moment we are recommending against updating to Catalina for Roon users who run their Core on macOS." To which I say Roon obviously doesn't give a s**t about their Apple customers, or this would have been fixed BEFORE the introduction of Catalina. Other software manufacturers used the time before the introduction of Catalina to prepare their products. Roon didn't. So now I sit without music because Roon "is hoping to have a fix live soon." Bah Humbug! Boomzilla |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 15, 2019 16:02:52 GMT -5
I would assume that you can either reject the update, or "roll back" your computer if it has already been installed, unless you have some compelling reason to update to Catalina. (Or at least delay the update until ALL the bugs have been thoroughly exterminated and everything works properly together with the new version.) I would be remiss if I neglected to mention that a nice Windows computer, powerful enough to run Roon well, can be purchased for less than the lifetime Roon subscription you've been considering.
(And Black Friday is coming soon... )
So what's a reasonable strategy for keeping an OS up to date? Wait six months from the final release date to install? Wait a year? Use Windows 10. It's a great software and the cost of the equipment is far less. But seriously since I know you won't go that direction, it does say they are recommending "against updating to Catalina for Roon users who run their CORE on Mac OS" Can you run your core on an Apple product that does not use Catalina? If so, I would try that. Mark |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 15, 2019 16:07:09 GMT -5
Absolutely.
Don't wait for some specific amount of time... Wait until it has been reported to work properly with the programs you need to run... (It doens't matter who updates what when...the important thing is that it all works right together.)
So what's a reasonable strategy for keeping an OS up to date? Wait six months from the final release date to install? Wait a year? My suggestion is to research the update on line before installing, and take advantage of other people's experiences. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 15, 2019 16:36:36 GMT -5
...If the programs you need are running just fine with the version of the operating system that's installed then there is no reason to update either... Sorry, KeithL - I've got to call that statement out. Your claim is ONLY true if the computer is used for the sandboxed programs alone, and the computer never, ever connects to the internet. The reason that Apple and Microsoft update their operating systems continuously is to plug security holes that malware and viri are trying to exploit. Since the vast majority of computer owners utilize their machines for multiple tasks (many of which DO involve the internet), keeping a no-longer-supported operating system is just bad business... Cordially - Boom |
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Post by Loop 7 on Oct 15, 2019 16:58:00 GMT -5
I was getting frustrated with Roon running on a Mac so I migrated to R.O.C.K. and it's down right amazing in my opinion. Roon Optimized Core Kit |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 15, 2019 18:54:59 GMT -5
Linux servers FTW
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 15, 2019 19:11:36 GMT -5
I would assume that you can either reject the update, or "roll back" your computer if it has already been installed, unless you have some compelling reason to update to Catalina. (Or at least delay the update until ALL the bugs have been thoroughly exterminated and everything works properly together with the new version.) I would be remiss if I neglected to mention that a nice Windows computer, powerful enough to run Roon well, can be purchased for less than the lifetime Roon subscription you've been considering.
(And Black Friday is coming soon... ) Use Windows 10. It's a great software and the cost of the equipment is far less. But seriously since I know you won't go that direction, it does say they are recommending "against updating to Catalina for Roon users who run their CORE on Mac OS" Can you run your core on an Apple product that does not use Catalina? If so, I would try that. Mark Some very nice refurbished Windows 10 PC can be had for $200 +/- $50 from Microcenter. They make very nice Roon Core options. Mark |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 15, 2019 19:18:55 GMT -5
Apple’s QA has taken a hit lately. Look at all the iOS 13 problems
Boom - you’re seeing an Apple problem, not a Roon problem.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 15, 2019 22:49:26 GMT -5
Like Microsoft never broke anything with a Windows upgrade, HA! Why do Apple threads bring out the trolls and whingers. If Emotiva (and others) can’t accept that Apple is a major player in the home theatre market, just state it now and we’ll leave. Otherwise, stay out of threads where someone needs help and you have nothing productive to add beside, “use Windows ... it never breaks”. I repeat ... HA! KeithL , I’m not into making personal comments or quoting biblical things, but there’s something about throwing stones. To Boomzilla ’s question ... “the first week is too soon”, and I’d say the same thing about a major Windows update. That said, I think you made a reasonable evaluation that your music library being on an external disk should not pose a problem, that’s where mine is and I might have done the same thing. In fact I did something similar, thinking my 4K monitor should work after the upgrade, it ‘almost’ does, fortunately for me the workaround while I wait is a $13 USB-C to HDMI adapter. The truth is we’re geeks and we get excited and want to try the latest thing and that’s not always the best thing to do. Fortunately I didn’t upgrade my HT machine and my iTunes remote still works. As DYohn said if you want to blame someone, blame Apple, not Roon, if you like their product encourage them to fix it. Since you did choose to upgrade right away, and I’m guessing you have no rollback option? I think you have to start following the Roon and Apple threads, and hope for an update soon. The only easy option I could see should be having enough space on an internal drive to move your library there (or maybe a subset of it). I can say that my iTunes sync library did upgrade to the Music App correctly and it’s on an external drive, maybe that means the problem is not difficult to solve. The first thread I found Googling the issue indicated Roon is aware of the problem and working on a fix. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Oct 15, 2019 23:07:09 GMT -5
As a general Apple Fan Boy, I have to say that their rollout of iOS 13 and Mac OS Catalina have been far below Apple's normal level of OS Initial Rollout Quality. I'm still waiting to get an answer to the completely screwed up Application Data Incompatibility for the newest versions of the Reminder and other Applications versus older Mac OS releases. They've done a Knife Switch of Data Formats so older and newer software can't coordinate the shared iCloud Data Images. As a Software Engineer and Release Manager I understand that you have to drop support for older platforms eventually. But you should never do it in a manner which is a hard knife edge cutover.
So, Apple's at fault on this one for not providing better support for Application Developers like Roon.
Casey
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 16, 2019 5:25:44 GMT -5
I do have options. I already own the past 15 versions of jRiver, and I also get a free copy of Apple's Music. I can start either of them, let them index my outboard storage drive, and be up and running again.
I've also just about decided (after trying it for six months or so) that I don't really need TIDAL. Yes, they have a few things that I like but I find that I'm seldom using them. I also listen to some (maybe a lot?) of music that TIDAL just doesn't carry, so replacing my storage drives with TIDAL still isn't an option. I understand that many really like TIDAL, but based on my usage, I think I'm not one of them.
Boom
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