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Post by Loop 7 on Nov 1, 2019 11:21:07 GMT -5
Please try R.O.C.K.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 1, 2019 13:33:05 GMT -5
Strongly thinking about it... |
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Post by SticknStones on Nov 1, 2019 14:23:20 GMT -5
Strongly thinking about it... Is this a J.O.K.E. ? is there a link?  |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 1, 2019 14:34:26 GMT -5
Strongly thinking about it... Is this a J.O.K.E. ? is there a link? Roon Optimized Core Kit Not a joke, but also limited to just running Roon Core. I really like mine and can't believe that I wated this long to try a NUC. |
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Post by SticknStones on Nov 1, 2019 14:42:13 GMT -5
Is this a J.O.K.E. ? is there a link? Roon Optimized Core Kit Not a joke, but also limited to just running Roon Core. I really like mine and can't believe that I waited this long to try a NUC. Thanks as google did not bring ROON up but there were some doosies!  |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 1, 2019 14:43:10 GMT -5
Mr. Boomzilla,
Here is my humble suggestion. Stop. Before you take another step or action, figure out exactly what you wish to do.
Do you wish to run a dedicated music server that does nothing else but sit there with your music files and listen to music using one or more players located elsewhere on your network, including the one you use for Internet?
Do you wish to have an all-in-one solution with all your music listening done only with the same PC as you use to cruise the webz?
Do you want a multi-function multimedia server that can also send movies to your video system?
Do you need support for any particular file formats beyond the typical music formats?
Do you use streaming music services from the web? If so which ones?
I think you should define what you really wish to do with a software-based media system and then decide which platform will give you a good solution rather than go backwards and get into hardware and/or software that may or may not serve your needs.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 1, 2019 14:54:14 GMT -5
Again - DYohn is 100% correct. Best of all, answering these questions likely save you a ton of money in the long term. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 1, 2019 15:24:20 GMT -5
Mr. Yohn - Very good questions, thank you. Answers (answering the easiest questions first): 1. The only streaming services I might use from the web are YouTube videos and Amazon Prime content (music and video). My TV has apps for both, so I'm not certain if my music server would need to have any contact with these at all. 2. So far as I know, I don't need any exotic audio CODECs. My library is 100% ripped CDs in wav format. 3. I don't need a video server. My Oppo UDP-205 can handle that independently. 4. I do not plan on using the music server for any general purpose computing. I have other machines for that. However, to access metadata when ripping, the music server will have to access IMDB, etc. unless I choose KeithL 's option of using a separate machine to rip and then simply copying the files to the music server's HDD. 5. Your first question is the hardest, since it is a multi-part query. Yes, my goal is to have a dedicated music server somewhere in the house. If I feed the living room music system via Ethernet, then I've got to use Roon. If I can put the server in the music room and feed the DAC via USB, then I have the choice of using Roon OR jRiver. Or even better, if I can get a SP/DIF coaxial output from the server, AND if the server can be located in the music room, then I can optimize digital connection to the DAC. The living room player will be the ONLY player in the house. If I'm feeding the living room player via Ethernet, then not only must I use Roon, but also the Oppo must be in the system as the Roon End-Point. I need not use the Oppo's DAC unless I want to - The Oppo can take the incoming Ethernet stream from Roon and output it on a SP/DIF coaxial output to any DAC of my choosing. On the other hand, if the server is in the living room, then I can take the USB output from the server and plug it directly into the DAC. Alternately, IF I have a SP/DIF coaxial output on the server, I can plug it directly into the DAC. As to hardware-platform / OS - I'm agnostic. What I want is the platform that will provide the most trouble-free software and most reliable hardware performance at the most reasonable cost. The other consideration is that IF (and ONLY if) the server is to reside in the listening room, it will need to fit on the equipment rack, be as compact as possible, and have all its parts (preferably) in a single box including the optical drive, the ssd operating system drive, and the large data drive (assuming a standard PC configuration). The other (no cost) option is to use either a PC or Apple laptop and just dedicate it to server duty. And Roon HAS fixed their OS-X Catalina incompatibility. But using this option would almost certainly preclude R.O.C.K. compatibility (if it matters). Thanks - Boom |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Nov 1, 2019 15:29:58 GMT -5
You can find links to it pretty easily from the Roon website.... Strongly thinking about it... Is this a J.O.K.E. ? is there a link? |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 1, 2019 15:43:38 GMT -5
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 1, 2019 16:07:05 GMT -5
Boom,
In your new order:
1) Good. No need to worry about streaming then.
2) WAV is probably the least efficient file format, but good.
3) Good.
4) I suggest one of the following schemes: Either rip your CDs using an optical drive in or connected to the music server (which means the server software needs to have this capability) or use a separate PC running iTunes or JRiver or DBPoweramp or whatever you choose to rip to the server storage location. The least efficient method is to rip and then copy, it's a waste of time. Just use a PC to rip to the server as a NAS location. Any server will allow this.
5)Aha. Finally, I believe you have revealed your basic misunderstanding about how a music server system works. First off, you do not need Roon nor JRiver nor anything else to distribute music via your network, DLNA can do this. What a package like Roon or LMS does is increase the reliability and efficiency of using your music files remotely. Let me explain.
The server only serves, meaning all it does is sit there and make the music files available to players.
The players can be hardware (like your Oppo) or software (living on another PC on your network.) Dedicated players like a Pi or a Rendu or the like are simply small computers running player software. Indeed, your Oppo is simply running player software too.
You would then connect the player to your DAC by whatever means the player provides. This is completely independent of what software you use and is a hardware issue. Can you connect the server to a DAC? Yes, as long as it is also running player software. In general the server software itself does not play files to your DAC, it requires a separate player piece that you enable through the user interface.
Controlling the players is done using another bit of software, whether is is Roon or something else. This simply tells the player software what to do, and this is where you interact with the tagged information. Think of this like a remote control.
Does this help?
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Post by brubacca on Nov 1, 2019 20:40:57 GMT -5
Boomzilla,
Wait. Say that again....
Roon fixed the incompatibility that caused this in the first place?
Did you like Roon before it got broken? If you did. Just go back to it on your Mac.
Problem Solved!
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 1, 2019 22:27:57 GMT -5
The server only serves, meaning all it does is sit there and make the music files available to players. My server also brings me martinis...shaken, not stirred...with olives. Mark |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 2, 2019 2:39:42 GMT -5
It does, thanks. But two more factoids to drop in the hat: My storage devices are not NAS. They are, instead, USB, and to share them, whatever computer they're connected to must be running at the time of listening. Therefore, it makes the most sense to do one of two things - connect the storage directly to the computer with the player software or else use the machine with the player software with an internal data drive. Since the player software must also be active to listen, it seems best to "bundle" the player software and data drive into a single package. And although you're completely correct that DLNA could share files throughout the network, the player software normally controls the process. Some players are significantly better at handling Ethernet transfer than others. As I've mentioned before, I've caught jRiver changing music formats on me without notice whenever it feels that the DLNA speed is insufficient to the data flow requirements. When this happens, jRiver does NOT notify the user, and jRiver is (almost always) FAR too conservative in assessing the speed of the Ethernet that it's connected to. Roon, with its R.A.A.T. technology (that is not based on DLNA) has never done that. Therefore, if I opt for data over Ethernet, I must also opt for a non-jRiver player software (be it Roon or another). My casual interchange of the terms "computer" and "server" have apparently caused much of this confusion. I understand the difference now, thanks. Boom |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 2, 2019 2:58:06 GMT -5
Boomzilla, Wait. Say that again.... Roon fixed the incompatibility that caused this in the first place? Did you like Roon before it got broken? If you did. Just go back to it on your Mac. Problem Solved! Hi brubacca - Yes, I liked Roon. The problem came from using the Mac that Roon resided on as a multi-purpose machine. I update my business machines as soon as updates become official. Roon, by their own admission, dropped the ball in preparing for the latest OS-X update. So if I revert to Roon on a dedicated Mac, and don't update OS-X on that machine until Roon catches up, all is well. However, there are numerous reasons that Mac is not a good fit for my Roon use: 1. Unless I buy the unholy-expensive, previous-generation Mac Pro (not MacBook Pro), there is no room in the case for optical drives, multiple hard drives, etc. This means that any Mac I use will be festooned with USB junk that will prevent the machine from being placed on the stand in the listening room. This means no USB, optical, or SP/DIF coaxial audio connections - Ethernet only from the computer room. This is inconvenient. 2. Roon (bless their pointy little head), is far more diligent about keeping their own software Windows-compatible than they are about keeping it Mac-compatible. So options are three - don't update the OS-X software on the Mac music machine, run a Windows version, or run R.O.C.K. that only updates itself after Roon has verified it. 3. Because of reason 1, if I locate the Mac (whatever version) in my computer room, then I've got to maintain another computer, dedicate it to music only, dedicate desk space to it, and add to the great clutter that is already the work-center room for my business. The only other "Free" option I can come up with is to plug up an obsolete MacBook Pro as a Roon host, and never update the OS. I do have one laying around... But doing that still doesn't change the issues of needing a USB external HDD and a USB external optical disc player. So despite my preference for OS-X, I may opt for a desktop PC format instead. And the most elegant option, as klinemj has repeatedly pointed out, is a small, inexpensive (refurb) PC case with room inside for the optical drive and two hard drives. If I ran R.O.C.K. on this device, I could place it on the audio stand and forget it. Alternately, there seems to be something called a "QNAP NAS" that, in a 4-bay model, would allow R.O.C.K., internal SSD, big data drive, optical drive and compact, all-in-one footprint. But I know little to nothing about them. |
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Post by Soup on Nov 2, 2019 4:56:12 GMT -5
By the way - the PC I shared from Amazon is really all you'll need. Some assumptions: 1. You won't be sending data via USB. Doesn't make sense - use a Roon endpoint (can be as simple as a Chromecast or as expensive as a > $1000 device). I use an ultraRendu for one system and a Raspberry Pi (about $50) in my home office. 2. The PC should not be in your listening space. Don't worry about a silent PC. 3. The PC should use wired Ethernet network connectivity. I'm sure WiFi would work, but I prefer the stability of a wired connection. 4. You WILL want to add as much PC memory as you can. Fortunately, this is cheap these days. Lastly, use the KISS method. This really doesn't need to be tricky. 1. I'm locked into Roon instead of jRiver. Why? Because jRiver has a nasty habit of down-rezzing its Ethernet audio output from "native" CD-quality to MP3 - and it doesn't tell you about it. Roon, with it's RAAT technology, has never done that. Have you tried this solution
"Try going to Options --> Media Network --> Add or configure DLNA servers... Here, you can create different profiles for your devices. So you may either keep the "Generic DLNA" profile, or add a new one and call it "Test". Once you have done this, set Audio --> Mode: Original. Hit "OK" to save all your changes.
Now, go back to the main Media Center screen, go to the "Playing Now" section, and look for your "Test". Right-click the "Test". If you have created more than one DLNA profile, there will be an option to "Associate with DLNA Server..." Choose the DLNA profile you have just created (Generic DLNA or Test), and your FLAC files should now get sent without getting converted.The nice thing about this setup is that it lets you create different profiles for your DLNA devices, depending on their capabilities."
Russ
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Post by brubacca on Nov 2, 2019 6:25:40 GMT -5
Boomzilla,
I do know a little about QNAP and other NAS systems. I didn't think that they did optical drives and I'm not sure how you would rip a CD on a QNAP. They are closed system Linux variant with some apps. Roon has a server app.
As stated before in the Roon ROCK OS the one CD I ripped did not impress. Rock creates a folder on your internal storage called CD-Rips. In that folder it creates a folder for the album ripped, but it doesn't follow the typical convention of Artist\Album\Song title. It literally created a folder \CD-Rip Date Time\ with a generic file name of \Title1.flac or some such nonsense. There was no flexibility at all for naming or directory.
I think you use dB Poweramp and they are Vastly different animals.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 2, 2019 8:44:40 GMT -5
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
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Post by DYohn on Nov 2, 2019 9:49:19 GMT -5
It does, thanks. But two more factoids to drop in the hat: My storage devices are not NAS. They are, instead, USB, and to share them, whatever computer they're connected to must be running at the time of listening. Therefore, it makes the most sense to do one of two things - connect the storage directly to the computer with the player software or else use the machine with the player software with an internal data drive. Since the player software must also be active to listen, it seems best to "bundle" the player software and data drive into a single package. And although you're completely correct that DLNA could share files throughout the network, the player software normally controls the process. Some players are significantly better at handling Ethernet transfer than others. As I've mentioned before, I've caught jRiver changing music formats on me without notice whenever it feels that the DLNA speed is insufficient to the data flow requirements. When this happens, jRiver does NOT notify the user, and jRiver is (almost always) FAR too conservative in assessing the speed of the Ethernet that it's connected to. Roon, with its R.A.A.T. technology (that is not based on DLNA) has never done that. Therefore, if I opt for data over Ethernet, I must also opt for a non-jRiver player software (be it Roon or another). My casual interchange of the terms "computer" and "server" have apparently caused much of this confusion. I understand the difference now, thanks. Boom Your server, with USB drives attached or with internal drives or both, will function as a NAS. And yes, it should be running all the time. You start it up and forget it. It's both the player and the server software that allows better sharing through a network than DLNA. This is the entire purpose of using server software rather than relying on Windows or MasOS. |
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Post by simpleman68 on Nov 2, 2019 10:21:27 GMT -5
Hell yes it does, thank you!  I am still new to the streaming world and trying to get up and running. Have all the gear and am an extremely quick learner but need to take the time to play more with the rig. Scott
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