DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 2, 2019 13:47:27 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 2, 2019 19:49:53 GMT -5
Enough. Since I have more Macs laying around than PCs, and since Roon has fixed their Mac problems, I'm going to take the cheap solution & just use an obsolete MacBook Pro (in the computer room - sending data over RAAT Ethernet - with external USB HDD - with external USB Optical Drive) and just move on. Since the machine is too old to update the OS anymore, there won't be any future changes. But the machine DOES have a 512 GB SSD in it AND 8 GB RAM. It need not be used for any other purpose, so about the only software on it will be Roon and dB Poweramp.
It won't be as elegant as a NUC running R.O.C.K. - but it's a LOT cheaper.
Boom
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 2, 2019 20:22:51 GMT -5
Glad it got fixed...2.5 weeks...not bad at all.
Mark
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Post by brubacca on Nov 2, 2019 21:57:28 GMT -5
Enough. Since I have more Macs laying around than PCs, and since Roon has fixed their Mac problems, I'm going to take the cheap solution & just use an obsolete MacBook Pro (in the computer room - sending data over RAAT Ethernet - with external USB HDD - with external USB Optical Drive) and just move on. Since the machine is too old to update the OS anymore, there won't be any future changes. But the machine DOES have a 512 GB SSD in it AND 8 GB RAM. It need not be used for any other purpose, so about the only software on it will be Roon and dB Poweramp. It won't be as elegant as a NUC running R.O.C.K. - but it's a LOT cheaper. Boom Hell yeah.... Now that you are saving some money there... can we interest you in a turntable 🤣 |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 6, 2019 15:45:34 GMT -5
Well - Ain't that just a steamer in the punchbowl? Roon won't run on my 17" MacBook Pro despite its 8 GB RAM upgrade and its SSD upgrade! The Roon guy says it doesn't meet their minimum hardware requirements that they list as:
Recommended Hardware:
Intel Core i3, Ivy Bridge+ (my MBP has a 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo)
4GB RAM (my MBP has 8GB RAM)
SSD boot drive (my MBP has a OWC Mercury Electra 3GB SSD buffer on a 1 TB drive)
1440 x 900 Resolution (my MBP will do 1344 x 840)
Supported Platforms for Roon Core or Roon Remote - OS-X 10.8+ (10.14 recommended) (my MPB runs OS-X El Capitan 10.11.6)
What's happening is that half the time, the MBP won't recognize the Oppo as a zone at all. The other half of the time, the zone is recognized, but after about 3 to 5 minutes of music playing, Roon loses contact with the Oppo, and everything stops.
The Roon admin says it's because my MBP isn't fast enough. Disappointing. So I need a plan B.
My current "business" MBP has:
2.3 GHz Quad-Core Intel i7
16 GB RAM
500 GB SSD drive
>1440 x 900 Resolution
OS-X 10.15.1 Catalina
I'll have to transfer the Roon install to the business machine. (now this assumes that the Roon admin knows what he's talking about, and I'm not yet convinced of that...).
Boom
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Post by SteveH on Nov 6, 2019 16:16:45 GMT -5
Well - Ain't that just a steamer in the punchbowl? Roon won't run on my 17" MacBook Pro despite its 8 GB RAM upgrade and its SSD upgrade! The Roon guy says it doesn't meet their minimum hardware requirements that they list as: Recommended Hardware:
Intel Core i3, Ivy Bridge+ (my MBP has a 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo)4GB RAM (my MBP has 8GB RAM)SSD boot drive (my MBP has a OWC Mercury Electra 3GB SSD buffer on a 1 TB drive)1440 x 900 Resolution (my MBP will do 1344 x 840)Supported Platforms for Roon Core or Roon Remote - OS-X 10.8+ (10.14 recommended) (my MPB runs OS-X El Capitan 10.11.6)What's happening is that half the time, the MBP won't recognize the Oppo as a zone at all. The other half of the time, the zone is recognized, but after about 3 to 5 minutes of music playing, Roon loses contact with the Oppo, and everything stops. The Roon admin says it's because my MBP isn't fast enough. Disappointing. So I need a plan B. My current "business" MBP has: 2.3 GHz Quad-Core Intel i7 16 GB RAM 500 GB SSD drive >1440 x 900 Resolution OS-X 10.15.1 Catalina I'll have to transfer the Roon install to the business machine. (now this assumes that the Roon admin knows what he's talking about, and I'm not yet convinced of that...). Boom This is copied from the Roon support website: We strongly recommend 4GB of RAM and an SSD for the Roon databases. Your music files can be on spinning disks, but ideally the Roon database should be on an SSD. This one optimization can provide the single biggest improvement to Roon’s performance and user experience. What will happen if Roon Server runs on a slower CPU (such as Atom or Celeron)? Roon Server uses a lot more CPU than any other audio software. You can read about why we have a Core and why it requires so much more CPU than other software. While Roon Server will work fine on these slower CPUs, consequences of running on them potentially include: Stuttering or dropouts in audio playback Slow response for searching Slow loading of artist, album, composer, and work pages Longer startup and connection times for remotes Slower audio analysis for normalization/crossfading/other Slower import of new music Overall, the experience will not be as good as it can be. You can fix this by running on a better suited CPU, such as an Intel Core i3 or i5. What will happen if the Roon database runs on a spinning disk (non-SSD)? Roon database performance is impacted most by the media the Roon database is run on. We don't run Roon databases on spinning disks, and neither should you. Will it work? Yes. Will you have the best Roon experience: NO. Everything will be noticeably sluggish if you run on a spinning disk. |
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Post by brubacca on Nov 6, 2019 17:15:13 GMT -5
Boom,
3GB SSD buffer on a regular deive is not the same as having a SSD drive for the Roon Library.
I ran Roon on a Celeron in my NAS with 2GB of RAM for a bit. It ran fine with a USB3.0 SSD drive attached for roon Database.
I doubt that MAC has USB3.0.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 6, 2019 17:47:03 GMT -5
Academic. I'm installing Roon instead on a newer MBP that exceeds Roon requirements. We'll see how that works.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 6, 2019 18:08:02 GMT -5
Aaaaaand... The "your computer is too slow" theory is bunk. EXACTLY the same thing is happening on the faster computer. Either the Oppo is not seen by Roon or when it is, Roon will operate properly for the first few minutes, and then crash.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 6, 2019 21:17:42 GMT -5
You have more than a fair share of computer-related issues. Are you doing the computer and the Oppo hardwired or using WiFi?
Mark
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 6, 2019 22:30:06 GMT -5
Here's my setup. All connections are gigabit Ethernet except for the connection between the AirPort Express and the iPad:  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 7, 2019 10:23:23 GMT -5
After power cycling EVERYTHING, problem still persists. So I began looking at settings. When I turned off "play internet radio between selections," things quit crashing. Whether or not this happy state will persist remains to be seen. But for now, all is well.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 7, 2019 11:23:16 GMT -5
Your symptoms indicate: 1) slow CORE machine; 2) LAN issues; 3) Player is not fully Roon Ready compliant
What is "play internet radio between selections" and where is this function located?
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Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 7, 2019 13:54:47 GMT -5
I like DYohn's thinking - the first thing I thought of with the Oppo not being seen was, "something's wrong on his network".
I'm 99% sure this isn't the problem, but are the Oppo and the Mac running Roon Server on the same network/subnet? What are the IP addresses of the Oppo and the Mac?
Failing that - is your Oppo on the most current version of their firmware? Remember that the Roon Ready capabilities were added late in the game - fairly close to when Oppo decided to stop selling DVD players.
I'd also suggest exploring other Roon Ready endpoints like AppleTV, Chromecast, almost any AirPlay device - do you have any of those you can test with?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 7, 2019 14:33:16 GMT -5
I'm not well-versed in Apple technology, but isn't the Airport Express only capable of 10/100 hardwired and wireless 802.11 a/b/g/n?
The Roon site says "Poor quality or underpowered routers can play a major role when it comes to networking difficulties. 802.11n was superseded by 802.11ac five years ago, so at this point, 802.11n routers should be considered obsolete. Furthermore, the performance difference between early 802.11ac routers and current models can be substantial due to differences in CPU/RAM allotments. ISP-provided routers are often underpowered and poorly behaved. Finally, we strongly recommend against using Apple network devices such as the Apple Airport Extreme and Airport Express (note: it’s fine to use the Airport Express as an Airplay device). To ensure the best performance, we recommend against using these devices."
And, I see you have a cable modem/router feeding the Airport Express hardwired through switches. Are they gigabit switches? What does a hard-wired computer show as the speed using speedtest.net directly off the ISP device?
And, how many other devices are hitting your network via wifi and hardwired, and what are they?
Mark
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 7, 2019 15:03:46 GMT -5
Most of this is off in the weeds...
The current computer and Roon operated perfectly not long ago (with the same network & hardware).
The AirPort Express is NOT in the signal chain. It is used to control the Roon Core via iPad with Roon Remote. Roon's website specifically says this is OK.
However - The "computer's not fast enough" may have some validity. Despite the fact that this computer worked with Roon just fine previously (with Mojave OS), the computer NOW runs Catalina OS - a much more resource-intensive system. Further, I did some sleuthing in the background apps, and discovered that Malware Bytes Pro had volunteered itself to do an hourly scan of the whole computer! Those two factoids alone may be where my processor cycles are being siphoned off...
Things that have NOT changed since Roon worked fine on this computer include:
The Routers
The Switches
The Wiring
The Oppo
The other network devices
So I'll do some more investigation into the processor loading & see what (if anything) is still sucking clock cycles. Thanks again!
Boom
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DYohn
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Posts: 18,491
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Post by DYohn on Nov 7, 2019 15:09:44 GMT -5
What is "play internet radio between selections" and where is this function located?
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Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 7, 2019 15:29:53 GMT -5
"Play Internet Radio Between Selections" - new one to me too.
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 7, 2019 15:56:20 GMT -5
Settings - Setup - Enable Roon Radio Notifications (perhaps I've misunderstood the function of this switch?)
And so far, "streamlining" the Catalina OS by suppressing background activity seems to be working. Not a single crash in the past hour.
So I'm about to conclude that IF one is running OS-X Catalina, one needs one heck of a powerful Mac with LOTS of CPU speed to support both the OS and the Roon - and the majority of the power is needed not for Roon but instead for Catalina.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 7, 2019 16:42:37 GMT -5
Roon Radio <> Internet Radio.
Roon Radio is like Pandora, but it runs on your own music collection. In addition, it can look for "hits" on Tidal/Qobuz if you use those services. It's pretty great, actually.
PS - you can still use that cheap Windows 10 PC to run your Roon Server ::wink::
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