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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2019 9:16:59 GMT -5
What about CLAIMS? That's what I was getting at. Not the cost of shipping as much as claims....damages and such during shipping.... Dropping or otherwise damaging gear through rough handling isn’t something that I associate directly with its weight. I personally had a Little Ego damaged in transit and their isn’t many Emotiva products lighter than one of them. Merry Xmas to All Gary |
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Post by roadwar on Dec 24, 2019 10:11:21 GMT -5
Based only on the need for less use of available space by equipment I replaced two XPA-1L amps with a single DR-2. I was concerned with sound quality but I've been very pleased with the perfomance of the DR-2. To me it sounds smoother on the high end and less strained at high volume than the XPA-1Ls. My XPA-1Ls are in storage but I will not sell them.......the Dr-2 is a keeper until and if Emo builds small form factor monoblocks using the high power amp cards and the smps. I would buy such amps today.
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Post by leonski on Dec 24, 2019 14:27:34 GMT -5
What about CLAIMS? That's what I was getting at. Not the cost of shipping as much as claims....damages and such during shipping.... Dropping or otherwise damaging gear through rough handling isn’t something that I associate directly with its weight. I personally had a Little Ego damaged in transit and their isn’t many Emotiva products lighter than one of them. Merry Xmas to All Gary EMO has the claims data. With all due respect, a SINGLE damaged package doesn't mean much. I shipped my Magnepans back to White Bear Lake. When they returned, in a New Box, it had a bad gash in one edge. It didn't penetrate, and the speaker was OK. I'd call it a 'close call'. The rest of the discussion is anecdotal. But I'll generally come down on the side of 'lighter-better'. I've floated the idea of using the Shock Watch System to the sound of chirping Cricketts. The company I worked for used the Shock Watch sensors on certain packages and they were VERY good at indicating potential internal problems. spotsee.io/impact/shockwatch-labelThe FIRST move from the insurance types is to DENY the claim unless it is obvious. And while the stories ARE somewhat anecdotal, they also follow an awful pattern. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2019 14:31:14 GMT -5
Based only on the need for less use of available space by equipment I replaced two XPA-1L amps with a single DR-2. I was concerned with sound quality but I've been very pleased with the perfomance of the DR-2. To me it sounds smoother on the high end and less strained at high volume than the XPA-1Ls. My XPA-1Ls are in storage but I will not sell them.......the Dr-2 is a keeper until and if Emo builds small form factor monoblocks using the high power amp cards and the smps. I would buy such amps today. If I may be so bold as to suggest placing the XPA-1L's close by each of their respective speakers, utilising very short speaker cables and long XLR interconnects. You may find using all of the advantages of monoblocks is worthwhile. FWIW, I'd have to leave the room to play my XPA-1L's at anywhere remotely close to their volume limit and the speakers would have given up long before the amps. Merry Xmas to All Gary |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2019 14:49:35 GMT -5
Dropping or otherwise damaging gear through rough handling isn’t something that I associate directly with its weight. I personally had a Little Ego damaged in transit and their isn’t many Emotiva products lighter than one of them. EMO has the claims data. With all due respect, a SINGLE damaged package doesn't mean much. I shipped my Magnepans back to White Bear Lake. When they returned, in a New Box, it had a bad gash in one edge. It didn't penetrate, and the speaker was OK. I'd call it a 'close call'. The rest of the discussion is anecdotal. But I'll generally come down on the side of 'lighter-better'. I've floated the idea of using the Shock Watch System to the sound of chirping Cricketts. The company I worked for used the Shock Watch sensors on certain packages and they were VERY good at indicating potential internal problems. spotsee.io/impact/shockwatch-labelThe FIRST move from the insurance types is to DENY the claim unless it is obvious. And while the stories ARE somewhat anecdotal, they also follow an awful pattern. FWIW the company I currently work with sends hundreds of packages every week from multiple locations with varying dimensions and weight, both national and international. From the last 5 years statistical evidence the larger a parcel the more likely it is to be damaged, but there is no such correlation between varying weights. UPS's are a prime example, they supply several different lengths of back up based on the number of batteries installed, for example 1 hour, 3 hours and 10 hours which have the same external dimensions. The only difference is their weight and there is no correlation between the shipping damage sustained to the 10 hour compared to the 1 hour versions and the weight difference is far greater than the 15 kgs between an XPA-1 Gen2 and a XPA-1 DR1. For completeness, the transit damage rate is so small (decimal places of a %) that we ignore it, lost in transit is far more common and even that isn't statistically significant. Merry Xmas to All Gary |
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Post by roadwar on Dec 24, 2019 15:59:48 GMT -5
Based only on the need for less use of available space by equipment I replaced two XPA-1L amps with a single DR-2. I was concerned with sound quality but I've been very pleased with the perfomance of the DR-2. To me it sounds smoother on the high end and less strained at high volume than the XPA-1Ls. My XPA-1Ls are in storage but I will not sell them.......the Dr-2 is a keeper until and if Emo builds small form factor monoblocks using the high power amp cards and the smps. I would buy such amps today. If I may be so bold as to suggest placing the XPA-1L's close by each of their respective speakers, utilising very short speaker cables and long XLR interconnects. You may find using all of the advantages of monoblocks is worthwhile. FWIW, I'd have to leave the room to play my XPA-1L's at anywhere remotely close to their volume limit and the speakers would have given up long before the amps. Merry Xmas to All Gary Thanks Gary! Wish I had the space to locate monoblocks at each speaker but just no room in this room. The comparison was done using the same XLR interconnects and speaker cables in each instance. Since I have no experience with the XPA-1, I probably need to minimize my presence in this thread. I'm keeping my XPA-1ls......Hope to have a place for their use again one day.  |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2019 16:55:10 GMT -5
If I may be so bold as to suggest placing the XPA-1L's close by each of their respective speakers, utilising very short speaker cables and long XLR interconnects. You may find using all of the advantages of monoblocks is worthwhile. FWIW, I'd have to leave the room to play my XPA-1L's at anywhere remotely close to their volume limit and the speakers would have given up long before the amps. Thanks Gary! Wish I had the space to locate monoblocks at each speaker but just no room in this room. The comparison was done using the same XLR interconnects and speaker cables in each instance. Since I have no experience with the XPA-1, I probably need to minimize my presence in this thread. I'm keeping my XPA-1ls......Hope to have a place for their use again one day. I have heard that excuse many times and every time I go to the person's house they have plenty of room. The common issue is thinking that the amps have to be placed such that the long side is facing the front with both located in between the speakers. This is not the case, for example they can stand up on their short side next to the speaker, in between or on the outer side, hence taking up very little space across the front. With the bonus that the speaker cables are extremely short. Or located behind the speakers, with similar orientation, short side down, so they aren't visible. I have even placed them below speakers that were on stands. Double win in that case as it aligned the tweeters with the listeners' ears. Thinking out side the box sometimes works  Merry Xmas Gary |
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Post by leonski on Dec 24, 2019 18:08:26 GMT -5
amp position is not all that important.
But I'll noodle ONE major exception. Amps are aircooled deviced and generally 'like' airflow from bottom (vented?) to top and out.
Standing an amp on end could and maybe will interfere with that natural convection.
Than, depending on actual load on the amp, you could cause a local overheating issue. Some amps are designed with very generous amounts of
heatsink. This would be class 'A' amps designed for long term use. A/b amps run near the 1/3 power level for long time periods are probably worst case.
The heaviest amps in relation to power output can be presumed to have the most robust PS and most abundent heat sinking of the outputs.
People get all wrapped around tha axle of 'must have monoblock'. But that's a potential red herring. A good, solid A/B amp will be FINE. At least as long as
used within its design limits. With the exception of HT receivers which NEVER put out rated power to real speakers and multiples thereof, most people have
way too much power. I found my panels actually play as loud or louder with 4x200 (conventional everything) than they did with my 2x500 'D' amp.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2019 20:29:27 GMT -5
amp position is not all that important. My personal experience is that short speaker cables with long XLR interconnects does reap benefits, particular with driver control facilitated by the higher damper factor at the speaker. The suggestion was in relation to his XPA-1L's which have more than adequate heat sink capacity that works in both orientations. I wouldn't have suggested it otherwise. My monoblocks are Class AB as well as running up to 30 watts in Class A. They produce negligible power increase over the previous XPA-2, XPA-3 and XPA-5 (that I still have) but in their configuration as described above they do sound better to me, more control, not more volume, better sound stage, not louder etc. Commonly a sign of more amps (not watts) and higher damping factors. Watts is after all only 1/3rd of the power formula. Merry Xmas to All Gary |
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Post by leonski on Dec 24, 2019 20:50:17 GMT -5
(amp position is not all that important.
My personal experience is that short speaker cables with long XLR interconnects does reap benefits, particular with driver control facilitated by the higher damper factor at the speaker.)
By 'position' I meant the amps orientation in space. Heat sinks would appear to want to be oriented to maximize convection. Heat traps, with no air exit, can get too warm.
If sufficient balanced connections are available, no reason why NOT to locate one amp behind each of the 3 main speakers, at least (HT SETUP)
I would be inclined to agree with out about the 1L heat sink IF I had data on heat sink and case temp after being run for a time at 1/3 rated power. Some very highly regarded amps will
FAIL this test. I walked into a Pass Labs amp demo where they had shut 'em down. ANd the room was as warm as 90f. Ampss were COOKIN' hot. This was the 4-piece setup with
2 power supplies and 2 'driver' sections.
Glad your monos works well for you. I have one stereo amp per speaker. And very short speaker wires but amps are 'flat' in the feet-down orientation as design intent.
DF is another potential red Herring. Adding in everything in line, AFTER the low output impedance output devices results in a much lower 'real world' number than that advertised.
Do you really need higher than maybe 50 or so?
And while watts is 1/3 of 'the law', another 11/3 is speaker resistance which than defines voltage and current. My panels have a 4 amp mid/high fuse. And my Parasounds are what THEY call out
as 30amp. Yet I have never popped a fuse. When I had another amp on my MG-1 speakers, I COULD pop the 1 1/2 amp fuse, but that was at redline of everything and the room lights flickering in
time to the power draw!
And as for your amps 'A' power? I'd love to see a Kill-A-Watt reading at idle. It should be maybe up to 100 watts per amp. Doing nothing. That would be 30% at idle.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2019 21:20:32 GMT -5
I did the stacking and shelf spacing test a while back, the results are on here somewhere. The end result was 50 mm shelf spacing above power amps (XPA-5, XPA-1L and XPA-100) was about the minimum, anything more than that had no measurable effect on the heat sink temperature. I have tried the XPA-100 on its side and it showed no difference in heat sink temp compared to running it in the normal orientation. Despite having the same case, the heat sink and vent hole orientation in the XPA-100 is not the same as the XPA-1L’s. They both have vents close to the side extremities so there is no room for trapped hot air, it will vent easily.
Merry Xmas to All
Gary
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