If I ever catch up with the "engineer"...

[Boomzilla]

Dec 15, 2019 8:39:54 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

There is no single engineer responsible for the HDMI connectors. It was designed by committee chaired by a non engineer (most likely).

And I bet that their priorities were:

1. Low cost
2. Compact size
3. Acceptable to manufacturers

And in that order...

Dec 15, 2019 8:39:54 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

There seems to be a lot of bias against engineers in this country as exampled by the internet tv series, Engineering Disasters. Engineering achievements are seldom discussed.

And that's a shame. We NEED more engineers (so much so that we're importing them from foreign countries).

[klinemj]

Dec 15, 2019 8:39:54 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

There seems to be a lot of bias against engineers in this country as exampled by the internet tv series, Engineering Disasters. Engineering achievements are seldom discussed.

YES!!!

Mark

[DYohn]

Dec 14, 2019 20:00:43 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

It isn't the cable quality that I object to. It's the connector. There's just enough play in the design that the HDMI plug can easily come out or tilt to one side or another in its socket, either of which cause a loss of function. Since the HDMI cables aren't the only ones dangling behind the equipment rack, every time that I move the rack (it seems) I partially dislodge the TV cable box to monitor connection. This is followed shortly by an irritated call from the boss, wanting her TV to work right again. The cause is in the connector design. And don't jerk me around saying that you never have the problem. The point is that I do - and it's because of the shoddy design of the HDMI plug and socket. The connector should have been designed with a secure locking mechanism that prevented accidental decoupling or side-to-side skew. But to save two cents or so per connector, the AV industry selected this sucks-eggs design.

Although I might be able to control the connector friction to some extent with the cables you mention, a good cable does nothing at all to address the cheap, sloppy-fit sockets on my Samsung TV. As I said, should I ever encounter the jerk(s) responsible for this connector, you'll probably get to read about me in the paper for having committed gruesome murder(s).

Bah Humbug

I have never had that problem. Been using HDMI since it first appeared.

[DYohn]

And, since *YOU* have a problem and *I* don't, I suspect the problem is operator error, not connector design.

[Boomzilla]

'tis a free country, Mr. Yohn - You're welcome to your opinion, and I to mine.

[klinemj]

Dec 15, 2019 15:28:46 GMT -5 DYohn said:

And, sionce *YOU* have a problem and *I* don't, I suspect the problem is operator error, not connector design.

he's probably not soldering them into place. I do and I use audiophile solder.

Mark

[DYohn]

Dec 15, 2019 16:07:12 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

'tis a free country, Mr. Yohn - You're welcome to your opinion, and I to mine.

You post about more problems than I ever knew existed so my conclusion is logical.

[garbulky]

I know this is silly but I dislike locking gear. Because then it just pulls all the gear off the shelf or yanks on the connector too hard when I accidentally pull on it.

[audiosyndrome]

Boom - I think there would be some agreement that that HDMI connector could be improved upon. That said, like many, many others, I've never had an HDMI cable dislodge. Your problem seems to be that you've done nothing to fix the "ongoing" issue. Did you try a setvice loop? Did you captivate the cable to a point close by? Did you try a longer cable? Etc, etc.. Until you do you should stop blaming the connector.  Boom appears to be the actual problem.

Russ

[Boomzilla]

Dec 17, 2019 13:11:03 GMT -5 audiosyndrome said:

Boom - I think there would be some agreement that that HDMI connector could be improved upon. That said, like many, many others, I've never had an HDMI cable dislodge. Your problem seems to be that you've done nothing to fix the "ongoing" issue. Did you try a setvice loop? Did you captivate the cable to a point close by? Did you try a longer cable? Etc, etc.. Until you do you should stop blaming the connector.  Boom appears to be the actual problem.

Russ

A "service loop" is for tray cabling or in-wall use (you threw me off there with the typo). Capturing the cable is more difficult than you suggest. Why? Because neither the Samsung junction box nor the rolling equipment stand can be fixed in place. The junction box has no mounting ears. Instead, it is a smooth, and rather small box on a short cable that is tight enough that even using thin wire-ties to attach it to a wall would obstruct some of its ports. I've tried longer HDMI cables, but as I said earlier, that becomes a mixed bag due to the congestion of speaker wiring, power cords, Ethernet cords, and interconnects in proximity.

However, your comments do suggest a potential solution - so I thank you for that. It occurs to me that (at least theoretically) the Samsung terminal box could be secured to the wall via the use of industrial-strength self-stick Velcro. By sticking a patch of Velcro on both the wall and one side of the Samsung box, I could create a fixed terminal for the HDMI cables. After doing so, a second strip of the same Velcro could be applied to the opposite side of the terminal box with a matching wrap of the Velcro on each incoming HDMI cable. That way, a "faux service loop" could be created that might anchor the cables to the actual terminal box. The "stress relief loop" created would allow for both flush insertion of the HDMI plugs into their sockets and emergency "break away" capability of the wires from the junction box if needed. I know that this sounds confusing, but if it works, I'll post a photo of the contraption.

Thanks for the inspiration!

Boomzilla

[Boomzilla]

Here's what I've tried. I can see already that the clip mounting strip needs to be wider, but other than that, I think this might work!

[klinemj]

Dec 18, 2019 9:36:47 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Here's what I've tried. I can see already that the clip mounting strip needs to be wider, but other than that, I think this might work!

What is the Samsung box and what does it do?

Mark

[Boomzilla]

On my Samsung (and I don't know if this is unique to my model or generic among all Samsung TVs) there is no HDMI input on the body of the TV at all. Instead, it has a proprietary 6' cable leading to the breakout box shown in the photo. The breakout box has four HDMI inputs (ARC available only on #4). To connect any HDMI source to the TV, the box is required.

[klinemj]

That's odd. Is this the thing the HDMI connectors keep coming out of? Where was it prior to being stuck to the wall?

Also, I notice one is labelled AVR and the others are Cox and Oppo. Why are the Cox and Oppo not running into the AVR then one line out from the AVR to the Samsung breakout box and on to the TV? Just not running the Cox and Oppo through the AVR and using the TV's speakers? If so, what is going into the AVR as a source?

Mark

[Boomzilla]

Dec 18, 2019 22:17:03 GMT -5 klinemj said:

That's odd. Is this the thing the HDMI connectors keep coming out of? Where was it prior to being stuck to the wall?

Also, I notice one is labelled AVR and the others are Cox and Oppo. Why are the Cox and Oppo not running into the AVR then one line out from the AVR to the Samsung breakout box and on to the TV? Just not running the Cox and Oppo through the AVR and using the TV's speakers? If so, what is going into the AVR as a source?

Mark

Hi klinemj -

Yes - this is the problem HDMI box. It was laying on the floor prior to being stuck to the wall.

I don't use the AVR as a system hub because I don't think that its HDMI protocols are as recent as those on the Oppo and the TV.

When watching TV from the cable box, the TV speakers (only) are active (my wife prefers it this way)
When watching a movie from the Oppo, the video/audio output from the Oppo is routed directly to the TV and the speakers there are turned down to zero. The "audio only" HDMI from the Oppo feeds the AVR and all audio is processed by the AVR's DACs.
When listening to music, I have two choices:
Either the Oppo's DACs do the conversion & send analog audio to the AVR in "direct" mode
Or the Oppo's "audio only" HDMI output sends audio to the AVR where the AVR's DACs do the conversion

If I want to watch something like YouTube on the TV with good sound, the ARC is enabled on the TV and the Oppo and then the main sound system is active using TV sound. This could also be accomplished via TOSLINK optical from either the Cox box or the TV itself.

The only reason the AVR's main output is connected to the TV at all is to do setup functions on the AVR.

OTOH - I just checked:

The Oppo was released Feb. 2017
The Samsung was bought somewhere around the same time
The AVR was released May 2016 (but says it does 4K pass-through)

So the Oppo is a year newer.

[klinemj]

Got it...so with this little HDMI box laying on the floor, when you move the stand with all your gear - an HDMI connector comes loose. With it on the wall with the new service loop approach, you've solved the issue.

Makes sense. It also makes sense why so many of us have not experienced the problem you noted. With my system, if I move my rack, all HDMI connectors move in unison because all gear and all HDMI connectors are on the rack.

Mark

[DYohn]

Again I say, operator error. This is not a standard setup the way things are designed to interoperate. To each his own, but you are bringing problems on yourself by trying to outsmart the equipment.

[KeithL]

I'm sure that's the case.

On the one hand I've never had any trouble with connectors on HDMI cables breaking or coming loose at home... or at Emo.

But, on the other hand, on general principles, I would have much preferred a more secure connector - and also one that locked.

I would have preferred a connector with screw-in locks like on older serial and VGA cables.

They were a nuisance to move around - but they were totally secure once you installed them.

 

Another option would have been something with a lock tab - like XLR or Ethernet cables.

I also think that, with HDMI 2.1, they should have gone to a fiber-optic connection rather than sticking with copper.

(Since you're going to need fiber to go more than a few feet with 8k anyway.)

However, for an even more unforgiveable choice, look at USB...

Here you have a connection that's used for things like disc drives - where you can actually corrupt data if the connection falls out while you're copying something...

Yet the connectors often fit quite loosely, don't lock, and are incredibly easy to knock or pull out.

Dec 15, 2019 9:11:23 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Dec 15, 2019 8:39:54 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

There is no single engineer responsible for the HDMI connectors. It was designed by committee chaired by a non engineer (most likely).

And I bet that their priorities were:

1. Low cost
2. Compact size
3. Acceptable to manufacturers

And in that order...

Dec 15, 2019 8:39:54 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

There seems to be a lot of bias against engineers in this country as exampled by the internet tv series, Engineering Disasters. Engineering achievements are seldom discussed.

And that's a shame. We NEED more engineers (so much so that we're importing them from foreign countries).

[Deleted]

My first impression of HDMI was "really, you kidding?" terrible design, especially at the frequencies being passed.
When engineering puts locks on circuit bd ribbon cables, I/O voltage lines that almost never move, but can't put a lock on a 'hanging' HDMI is dumb.
I like Gary Cook's suggestion (slick) or as Keith mentioned VGA with thumb screws, there's the answer- HDMI with one thumb screw (Hey Keith, you just got an Emo marketing idea, pay me with lifetime supply of cables )
As a service tech, loose connections were a problem interfacing two pieces of equipment and usually do the customer.

Boom, you have to admit your situation is different than most- moving pieces around frequently, so you need to think outside the norm to save yourself frustration.
I see a couple possible solutions: 1) make a case to houz your box that holds the wires when closed. 2) Buy a big bag of tie wraps with screw holes. 3) make a board to mount your box that clamps/tie wraps the cables.
I had intermittent 'pink screen' with the UMC-200, so EVER-SO-SLIGHTLY bent the female jack (with flat blade) to tighten the connection.
Last and most expensive is a dedicated reviewing system, separate from your family system. lol

btw, good luck, hope you find a solution.

[Boomzilla]

Thank @texzick - I think my velcro gizmo may do the trick. If I have further trouble, I'll take up your suggestions and see if one of them works. I appreciate your input!

Merry Christmas to you and yours - Boom