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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 13, 2020 1:16:18 GMT -5
But I do agree, why does Emotiva have this brick of a remote, when a plastic unit would be better for most consumers and cheaper to make? Most of us love our weapons grade remotes, I have 3, 1 for the ERC-3 1 for XSP-1 and 1 for the XMC-1 they are fabulous. Plastic remotes would be much more expensive at Emotiva level volumes, the tooling cost for a plastic extrusion is massive and requires many units to amortise over. In comparison the alloy used in the Emotiva remotes is an simple extrusion cut to length. Much more suitable for their volume levels. Cheers Gary
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Post by motogp34 on Jan 13, 2020 1:30:02 GMT -5
But I do agree, why does Emotiva have this brick of a remote, when a plastic unit would be better for most consumers and cheaper to make? Most of us love our weapons grade remotes, I have 3, 1 for the ERC-3 1 for XSP-1 and 1 for the XMC-1 they are fabulous. Plastic remotes would be much more expensive at Emotiva level volumes, the tooling cost for a plastic extrusion is massive and requires many units to amortise over. In comparison the alloy used in the Emotiva remotes is an simple extrusion cut to length. Much more suitable for their volume levels. Cheers Gary At least a light up feature would be nice
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jan 13, 2020 8:51:51 GMT -5
almor54 - get in line behind us with an XMC-1. We have a machine that takes > 15 seconds to switch inputs.
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Post by Hair Nick on Jan 13, 2020 9:30:29 GMT -5
Oh man I know I'm about to open a can of worms. Also, I'm speaking as Nick the individual and not from the viewpoint of the company Emotiva.
How much are you guys jumping around from input to input? I could see running into this trying to demo some stuff but in real-world use are you guys jumping from source to source every minute?
I pretty much run everything through 3 sources. The PS4 is my main source, but if I want to watch a 4K Bluray then I switch over to my Xbox One S. I switch over then as it is switching I boot up my XBOX which takes a few seconds to handle plus I then have to go through the process of putting in the disc. I don't even once notice a switching time because of the amount of minutia I have to do in the process.
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 13, 2020 9:44:27 GMT -5
Dumb question, but is your XMC hooked up to your network via cat 5 cable? yes When you open the app on the tab that shows select does your XMC-2 show up there? My RMC-1 shows up on that screen. If you do not see your XMC-2 there they is most likely something not setup on the XMC-2 for your network. But from what I remember on my RMC-1 all I had to do was plug it into the network, I didn't have to do anything in the settings.
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 13, 2020 9:46:23 GMT -5
But I do agree, why does Emotiva have this brick of a remote, when a plastic unit would be better for most consumers and cheaper to make? Most of us love our weapons grade remotes, I have 3, 1 for the ERC-3 1 for XSP-1 and 1 for the XMC-1 they are fabulous. Plastic remotes would be much more expensive at Emotiva level volumes, the tooling cost for a plastic extrusion is massive and requires many units to amortise over. In comparison the alloy used in the Emotiva remotes is an simple extrusion cut to length. Much more suitable for their volume levels. Cheers Gary I would guess that Emotiva would just third party the remotes? It's really not a big deal, but I personally do not like the remote. Just reminds me of a 1980's VCR remote lol.
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 13, 2020 9:48:55 GMT -5
Oh man I know I'm about to open a can of worms. Also, I'm speaking as Nick the individual and not from the viewpoint of the company Emotiva. How much are you guys jumping around from input to input? I could see running into this trying to demo some stuff but in real-world use are you guys jumping from source to source every minute? I pretty much run everything through 3 sources. The PS4 is my main source, but if I want to watch a 4K Bluray then I switch over to my Xbox One S. I switch over then as it is switching I boot up my XBOX which takes a few seconds to handle plus I then have to go through the process of putting in the disc. I don't even once notice a switching time because of the amount of minutia I have to do in the process. I've always wondered the same thing Nick. I have four devices on my RMC-1 but I very rarely switch inputs. I usually turn my unit on to whatever source I am going to use and that is about it. Honestly right now the main time I switch inputs is when the RMC has issues locking on to a HDMI audio signal and I have to switch inputs back and forth to get a lock. I of course should not have to do this.
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 13, 2020 11:16:50 GMT -5
How much are you guys jumping around from input to input? I could see running into this trying to demo some stuff but in real-world use are you guys jumping from source to source every minute? I've always wondered the same thing Nick. I have four devices on my RMC-1 but I very rarely switch inputs. I usually turn my unit on to whatever source I am going to use and that is about it. Honestly right now the main time I switch inputs is when the RMC has issues locking on to a HDMI audio signal and I have to switch inputs back and forth to get a lock. I of course should not have to do this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't necessarily have to switch inputs for the locking headaches. Those who watch via a cable box, every time they either switch channels, switch between a channel and recorded shows, or when a channel switches to a commercial - all of these require resyncing. Let me know if I'm wrong on this but that's how the MC-700 works. I don't watch TV on my XMC-1 setup so I'm not sure about that platform or the new platform, though. For that setup, I switch inputs as infrequently as you 2.
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Post by tchaik on Jan 13, 2020 11:17:25 GMT -5
Oh man I know I'm about to open a can of worms. Also, I'm speaking as Nick the individual and not from the viewpoint of the company Emotiva. How much are you guys jumping around from input to input? I could see running into this trying to demo some stuff but in real-world use are you guys jumping from source to source every minute? I pretty much run everything through 3 sources. The PS4 is my main source, but if I want to watch a 4K Bluray then I switch over to my Xbox One S. I switch over then as it is switching I boot up my XBOX which takes a few seconds to handle plus I then have to go through the process of putting in the disc. I don't even once notice a switching time because of the amount of minutia I have to do in the process. may not be the best metaphor, but it's kind of like having a tooth that is a little sensitive. you keep going back over and over that tooth to see how sensitive it really is even though under normal circumstances you wouldn't be doing that. like you nick, I would not be changing my sources all that often and certainly not go back and forth quickly as some seem to do. tchaik..........
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 13, 2020 11:24:10 GMT -5
Oh man I know I'm about to open a can of worms. Also, I'm speaking as Nick the individual and not from the viewpoint of the company Emotiva. How much are you guys jumping around from input to input? I could see running into this trying to demo some stuff but in real-world use are you guys jumping from source to source every minute? I pretty much run everything through 3 sources. The PS4 is my main source, but if I want to watch a 4K Bluray then I switch over to my Xbox One S. I switch over then as it is switching I boot up my XBOX which takes a few seconds to handle plus I then have to go through the process of putting in the disc. I don't even once notice a switching time because of the amount of minutia I have to do in the process. Same here Nick, 3 sources, mine are cable box, ATV4K and Sony BDP. I’d be lucky to change sources more than twice in a day and that’s time to reach for the glass of red, adjust the seating position, dim the lights (please siri), close the curtains, etc. it’s not like I’m sitting there transfixed staring at the screen with stop watch in hand. Cheers Gary
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,928
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Post by KeithL on Jan 13, 2020 12:01:08 GMT -5
Yes and no.
Switching between input devices requires "a major renegotiation" - which may require negotiating different video resolutions. Since you are switching between different hardware devices this is always going to be the case. In theory, as long as the same input remains selected, a new HDMI negotiation should not be required, simply because the source is sending a new picture down the same connection.
(If the audio mode changes, then the new audio mode will have to be detected, but that doesn't require a full HDMI negotiation.)
When you have the same physical source connected, merely changing channels, or skipping around on your DVD, does not require "new hardware negotiations". In that situation, it's up to your cable box or DVR to do a good job of handling the output video stream without unnecessary glitches and complications.
At home, right now, I have an RMC-1, and an XFinity X1 cable box.... with the DVR function (which is now cloud based). I watch a lot of network shows, including new ones, medium old ones like Law and Order, and even real oldies, in B&W, like The Three Stooges. And, since I HATE commercials, I always skip them on the DVR. Yet I virtually never lose synch, or sound, when I jump around between FF/STOP/PLAY/REW. I lose sound, and have to press Stop, and then Play, again, maybe once a week, if even that often.... and I can't remember the last time the picture dropped.
(Apparently the XFinity cable box manages to send out a very clean data stream... without too much glitching when you switch modes or jump between Play and Stop.)
I've always wondered the same thing Nick. I have four devices on my RMC-1 but I very rarely switch inputs. I usually turn my unit on to whatever source I am going to use and that is about it. Honestly right now the main time I switch inputs is when the RMC has issues locking on to a HDMI audio signal and I have to switch inputs back and forth to get a lock. I of course should not have to do this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't necessarily have to switch inputs for the locking headaches. Those who watch via a cable box, every time they either switch channels, switch between a channel and recorded shows, or when a channel switches to a commercial - all of these require resyncing. Let me know if I'm wrong on this but that's how the MC-700 works. I don't watch TV on my XMC-1 setup so I'm not sure about that platform or the new platform, though. For that setup, I switch inputs as infrequently as you 2.
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Post by megash0n on Jan 13, 2020 12:13:56 GMT -5
Yes and no.
Switching between input devices requires "a major renegotiation" - which may require negotiating different video resolutions. Since you are switching between different hardware devices this is always going to be the case. In theory, as long as the same input remains selected, a new HDMI negotiation should not be required, simply because the source is sending a new picture down the same connection.
(If the audio mode changes, then the new audio mode will have to be detected, but that doesn't require a full HDMI negotiation.)
When you have the same physical source connected, merely changing channels, or skipping around on your DVD, does not require "new hardware negotiations". In that situation, it's up to your cable box or DVR to do a good job of handling the output video stream without unnecessary glitches and complications.
At home, right now, I have an RMC-1, and an XFinity X1 cable box.... with the DVR function (which is now cloud based). I watch a lot of network shows, including new ones, medium old ones like Law and Order, and even real oldies, in B&W, like The Three Stooges. And, since I HATE commercials, I always skip them on the DVR. Yet I virtually never lose synch, or sound, when I jump around between FF/STOP/PLAY/REW. I lose sound, and have to press Stop, and then Play, again, maybe once a week, if even that often.... and I can't remember the last time the picture dropped.
(Apparently the XFinity cable box manages to send out a very clean data stream... without too much glitching when you switch modes or jump between Play and Stop.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't necessarily have to switch inputs for the locking headaches. Those who watch via a cable box, every time they either switch channels, switch between a channel and recorded shows, or when a channel switches to a commercial - all of these require resyncing. Let me know if I'm wrong on this but that's how the MC-700 works. I don't watch TV on my XMC-1 setup so I'm not sure about that platform or the new platform, though. For that setup, I switch inputs as infrequently as you 2. But does the DSD code come into play each time you change audio, channel, etc? Anytime I switch between Netflix, Hulu, or any app from my XBOX, I get significant delay. It's fine for now, but I hope it will be cleaner down the road.
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 13, 2020 12:16:50 GMT -5
I've always wondered the same thing Nick. I have four devices on my RMC-1 but I very rarely switch inputs. I usually turn my unit on to whatever source I am going to use and that is about it. Honestly right now the main time I switch inputs is when the RMC has issues locking on to a HDMI audio signal and I have to switch inputs back and forth to get a lock. I of course should not have to do this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't necessarily have to switch inputs for the locking headaches. Those who watch via a cable box, every time they either switch channels, switch between a channel and recorded shows, or when a channel switches to a commercial - all of these require resyncing. Let me know if I'm wrong on this but that's how the MC-700 works. I don't watch TV on my XMC-1 setup so I'm not sure about that platform or the new platform, though. For that setup, I switch inputs as infrequently as you 2. It depends on which source you are using. Let's say I was watching a UHD disc, I could switch the sound format from Atmos to say French and then back to Atmos and that would fix the issue. Yesterday my daughter was playing a game on Xbox and I had to switch inputs for the sound to sync.
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,490
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Post by LCSeminole on Jan 13, 2020 12:19:34 GMT -5
Oh man I know I'm about to open a can of worms. Also, I'm speaking as Nick the individual and not from the viewpoint of the company Emotiva. How much are you guys jumping around from input to input? I could see running into this trying to demo some stuff but in real-world use are you guys jumping from source to source every minute? I pretty much run everything through 3 sources. The PS4 is my main source, but if I want to watch a 4K Bluray then I switch over to my Xbox One S. I switch over then as it is switching I boot up my XBOX which takes a few seconds to handle plus I then have to go through the process of putting in the disc. I don't even once notice a switching time because of the amount of minutia I have to do in the process. The only time I'm switching back and forth between sources is when I'm testing out a new firmware, otherwise I might switch sources once an hour if that, and that would be when I'm done with an hour long show on DVR. Then I'm on to a UHD blu-ray movie for the next 2-3 hours or a binge watching on the AppleTV4K for even longer lengths of viewing. 8 to 10secs just doesn't bother me, but I imagine it would if I was having audio or video dropouts, which I don't with v1.5. So I get where you're coming from Nick.
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,490
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Post by LCSeminole on Jan 13, 2020 12:24:54 GMT -5
Yes and no. Switching between input devices requires "a major renegotiation" - which may require negotiating different video resolutions. Since you are switching between different hardware devices this is always going to be the case. In theory, as long as the same input remains selected, a new HDMI negotiation should not be required, simply because the source is sending a new picture down the same connection.
(If the audio mode changes, then the new audio mode will have to be detected, but that doesn't require a full HDMI negotiation.)
When you have the same physical source connected, merely changing channels, or skipping around on your DVD, does not require "new hardware negotiations". In that situation, it's up to your cable box or DVR to do a good job of handling the output video stream without unnecessary glitches and complications. At home, right now, I have an RMC-1, and an XFinity X1 cable box.... with the DVR function (which is now cloud based). I watch a lot of network shows, including new ones, medium old ones like Law and Order, and even real oldies, in B&W, like The Three Stooges. And, since I HATE commercials, I always skip them on the DVR. Yet I virtually never lose synch, or sound, when I jump around between FF/STOP/PLAY/REW. I lose sound, and have to press Stop, and then Play, again, maybe once a week, if even that often.... and I can't remember the last time the picture dropped.
(Apparently the XFinity cable box manages to send out a very clean data stream... without too much glitching when you switch modes or jump between Play and Stop.)
But does the DSD code come into play each time you change audio, channel, etc? Anytime I switch between Netflix, Hulu, or any app from my XBOX, I get significant delay. It's fine for now, but I hope it will be cleaner down the road. When I'm switching between NetFlix/Prime/Hulu/Disney+/AppleTV+/ESPN+, I only get delay when exiting out of said APP and entering the next. Are you saying you lose audio/video synch when doing this? My AppleTV4K is seamless when doing this.
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Post by megash0n on Jan 13, 2020 12:27:57 GMT -5
But does the DSD code come into play each time you change audio, channel, etc? Anytime I switch between Netflix, Hulu, or any app from my XBOX, I get significant delay. It's fine for now, but I hope it will be cleaner down the road. When I'm switching between NetFlix/Prime/Hulu/Disney+/AppleTV+/ESPN+, I only get delay when exiting out of said APP and entering the next. Are you saying you lose audio/video synch when doing this? My AppleTV4K is seamless when doing this. I would say I get a delay. Seems to be a resync, but I could be wrong. I can't tell you off the top of my head that if changing shows inside the same app, without exiting the app, causes any issue. I've only owned the RMC for maybe two weeks.
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 13, 2020 15:33:47 GMT -5
Yet I virtually never lose sync, or sound, when I jump around between FF/STOP/PLAY/REW. I lose sound, and have to press Stop, and then Play, again, maybe once a week, if even that often.... and I can't remember the last time the picture dropped. This means it is resync'ing both audio and video when you do change within the source, but apparently it's not a "major" but more of a "minor" one? That behavior you describe is consistent with my MC and I'll test the XMC-1 later.
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klinemj
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Posts: 14,740
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Post by klinemj on Jan 13, 2020 15:49:48 GMT -5
How much are you guys jumping around from input to input? I could see running into this trying to demo some stuff but in real-world use are you guys jumping from source to source every minute? Ironically, I had the exact same question pop into my brain today before I read your post! Mark
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jan 13, 2020 16:39:21 GMT -5
Oh man I know I'm about to open a can of worms. Also, I'm speaking as Nick the individual and not from the viewpoint of the company Emotiva. How much are you guys jumping around from input to input? I could see running into this trying to demo some stuff but in real-world use are you guys jumping from source to source every minute? I pretty much run everything through 3 sources. The PS4 is my main source, but if I want to watch a 4K Bluray then I switch over to my Xbox One S. I switch over then as it is switching I boot up my XBOX which takes a few seconds to handle plus I then have to go through the process of putting in the disc. I don't even once notice a switching time because of the amount of minutia I have to do in the process. I switch around quite a bit between DirecTV 4k, AppleTV, and Roku - I'm doing a lot more streaming these days, and will flip between a game on ESPN on ATV to an NHL game on Roku and a comedy on DirecTV. I also will turn on the USB input to listen to Roon music from my UltraRendu while watching video from another input. I also use a Chromcast, an Oppo UDP-203 (but mostly stream these days), and an Xbox One I almost never use. I have my machine set to turn onto DirecTV (HDMI6). About 10% of the time, it won't handshake and I need to flip the circuit breaker to make things work. I'll also have this problem if I flip from 4k to 1080i on DirecTV (which I do a lot, especially if I'm watching 4k sports on DirecTV and don't want to watch the commercials). To summarize, I watch a ton of sports on a variety of inputs (DirecTV, Verizon FiOS, Apple TV 4k, and Roku 4k).
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jan 13, 2020 19:44:45 GMT -5
FYI. I was just reading a reviews the NAD m17. The reviewer said the NAD went to black screen anytime resolution changed. For example, Apple TV caused chaos when switching from 4K to 1080i.
Guess the grass isn’t always greener. 😎
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