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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 15, 2020 22:52:08 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on Jan 16, 2020 1:15:36 GMT -5
Congratulations on another great review!!
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 16, 2020 7:40:45 GMT -5
I guess it's O.K. if you like Chinese Commie stuff made with stolen intellectual technology.  Whoops, sorry - it's from Singapore! |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jan 16, 2020 19:49:09 GMT -5
Hi Boom - the review was very light on details and somewhat misleading. After reading the review one would think that the (multitude) of positive reviews for Denafrips DACs were suspect based on your review of the Ares II. However that is not the case, as those multitude of rave reviews are almost exclusively for their DACS higher up on the ladder, not the Ares II. As you know there are four DACs in the range, starting with the $760 Ares II going all the way up to the $4,439 Terminator. And of course you never mentioned that the Ares does 20/1536KHz and native DSD 1024. Not bad for a DAC that cost less than the $1,000 upgrade in your Oppo 205 (x03-- x05 is $1,000). Yeah, I'm a Denafrips fanboy and will probably buy the Terminator. All should check this link out and be blown away. www.denafrips.com/terminatorRuss |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 16, 2020 23:08:27 GMT -5
Hi Boom - the review was very light on details and somewhat misleading. After reading the review one would think that the (multitude) of positive reviews for Denafrips DACs were suspect based on your review of the Ares II. However that is not the case, as those multitude of rave reviews are almost exclusively for their DACS higher up on the ladder, not the Ares II. As you know there are four DACs in the range, starting with the $760 Ares II going all the way up to the $4,439 Terminator. And of course you never mentioned that the Ares does 20/1536KHz and native DSD 1024. Not bad for a DAC that cost less than the $1,000 upgrade in your Oppo 205 (x03-- x05 is $1,000). Yeah, I'm a Denafrips fanboy and will probably buy the Terminator. All should check this link out and be blown away. www.denafrips.com/terminatorRuss Do you have or listened to a Denafrips dac? My thoughts on the ares II's sound quality are not quite as kind as Bzilla's so I actually think he was being nice here.  I thought it sounded ok, certainly had me enjoying the music but I have heard several dacs, nearly most dacs in recent memory sound better to me (yes a few were cheaper too). |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 17, 2020 5:52:23 GMT -5
Hi Boom - the review was very light on details and somewhat misleading...And of course you never mentioned that the Ares does 20/1536KHz and native DSD 1024. Not bad for a DAC that cost less than the $1,000 upgrade in your Oppo 205 (x03-- x05 is $1,000). It wasn't meant to be. At the time that I wrote the review, however, Denafrips had only published preliminary specs and did not yet have an owners' manual online. Further, they wouldn't answer my emails. ...After reading the review one would think that the (multitude) of positive reviews for Denafrips DACs were suspect based on your review of the Ares II. However that is not the case, as those multitude of rave reviews are almost exclusively for their DACS higher up on the ladder, not the Ares II... Again, at the time that I wrote the review, the Ares was the product getting internet buzz. The Terminator and the Ares II came out at about the same time, and I was more interested in the budget end. I'm happy for you that you're a "Denafrips man," Russ - but given the lack of information from Denafrips, I did the best I could with what I had. Boom |
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Post by routlaw on Jan 17, 2020 17:07:53 GMT -5
I had seriously considered one of the Denafrips DAC's also but decided on the Holo Spring Level 1. Its surprising to hear Alvin did not respond to your emails though as I found him to be very responsive and informative. It appears documentation for many of these products from across the pond are indeed scarce and bare bones. The downloaded Spring DAC manual are nothing short of worthless, however the importer Tim Connor at Kitsune has more than made up for this.
Regarding your review of this component, one of the most important aspects not just within this hobby but also our perceptions at large play a huge role in how we appreciate things… or not. Those perceptions are a moving target too. Meaning what we may or may not like today could very well change over a period of time and often become diametrically opposed to previous notions. Take for instance your comments regarding the Oppo 205 which I remember very well on these forums your utter disdain for how the DAC in the player performed. Was the change due to some break in period, or was it you breaking into the sound of the Oppo? This is not meant to be a disparaging remark about you or your perceptions of the hobby, in fact we can all go through this type of change.
I wouldn't give up on R2R Ladder DAC's based upon your first time out with one.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 17, 2020 22:26:05 GMT -5
Hi routlaw - The Denafrips Ares wasn't my first ride around the block with a R2R DAC. I'd previously owned the Schiit Gungnir Multibit (aka the "Gumby"). Not only did it not ring my bell, but garbulky heard it (expecting great things) and was equally unimpressed. At one time, the Schiit Yggdrasil was my "dream DAC," but after hearing the Gumby and the Ares, I'm thinking I might look around at other options. Not only did I savage the Oppo UDP-205 when it came out, but also I foamed at the mouth about the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 when it came out. So what's changed? Did I just "get used to them?" I don't think so. I've made the comment before, and I stick by it even more now: "DACs are more sensitive to associated equipment than just about any other component." The same DC-1 DAC that suuuuuucked in my system sounds heavenly in garbulky's. So what's changed in MY system since I first got (and hated) the sound of the Oppo? The answer is absolutely everything! Different preamp, different power amps, different speakers, different wiring, different power conditioner, etc. etc. etc. So to summarize - R2R DACs have sounded less than impressive now in multiple different systems. The Delta-Sigma DAC in the Oppo can sound bright and screechy in some of my systems, but judicious use of a calibrated microphone and some variable-Q DSP equalization can make the Oppo sound pretty good (and on up) in most all systems. The R2R DACs' problems can't be cured with EQ. So I'd probably not buy another R2R DAC unless I could audition it extensively first. |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 18, 2020 1:36:55 GMT -5
Just a small comment. I was actually quite impressed with the gungnir Multibit albeit a bit later. Thanks to you I got to spend several weeks with it and I thought it was one of the best dacs I’ve heard right up there near the top. However It didn’t beat the best unit I’ve heard which was considerably cheaper the dc1 though it tied it overall. Keep in mind it sounded different and excelled and lacked in different areas. but if you had to rate it was more or less equally good. That plus the lack of remote stopped me from making it a must buy. It’s like a remote made it a deal breaker to use for my purposes.
Though the Aries sounded good, I wouldn’t put it in my top level of dacs like the gungnir which I thought was close to bring the best id heard.
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Post by routlaw on Jan 18, 2020 11:49:37 GMT -5
@ Boomzilla: sorry had forgotten you mentioned those other DACs you’ve had in the past. While I don’t have any experience with any of the Schiit products I do feel very confident with the other R2R Ladder DACs or at least the Holo Spring brand. In my system it has a very organic natural sound.
Contrary to your experiences with all DACs I have not run across the issues you describe with this level of system dependency. Yes they will all sound different in one way or the other but nothing as detrimental as you describe. Or perhaps I’ve become a charter member of the good enough society of audio-philia-nervosa. Worth mentioning in my system I’ve gone to extreme lengths with AC purification. Perhaps this makes the difference.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 18, 2020 16:19:14 GMT -5
I think I've possibly exaggerated some of the differences I'm hearing. NONE of the DACs mentioned sounded bad (despite the fact that I initially thought that both the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 and the Oppo UDP-205 did). I think that I'm just picky. I want my digital to sound as liquid, live, and exciting as my very best phono system ever did, but without any of the phono system's shortcomings. In other words, my expectations for digital are really, REALLY high. Most DACs don't fill that bill. Many (most) DACs have one or two areas of strength and one or two of weakness. But as I said, I want it ALL.
My audio amigo, Russell, has been doing some DAC comparisons himself. Although he's currently using a (slightly modified) Black Ice tube DAC, he says that he can get NOTICEABLY better sound out of an older Aurilac streamer/DAC that he has. But he says that the Aurilac isn't at its best without a hot-rod power supply that Aurilac has loaned him. From what I'm hearing in Russell's latest setup, I think he's onto something (again). His system consistently images better than any other I've heard.
Does AC purification make a difference? I can't say that it doesn't. The best preamp I've owned so far (the Audio-gd HE-1) has its own AC regenerator in the preamp itself. Is that the secret to it's sound? Maybe...
Boom
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Post by routlaw on Jan 20, 2020 19:24:33 GMT -5
I think I've possibly exaggerated some of the differences I'm hearing. NONE of the DACs mentioned sounded bad (despite the fact that I initially thought that both the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 and the Oppo UDP-205 did). I think that I'm just picky. I want my digital to sound as liquid, live, and exciting as my very best phono system ever did, but without any of the phono system's shortcomings. In other words, my expectations for digital are really, REALLY high. Most DACs don't fill that bill. Many (most) DACs have one or two areas of strength and one or two of weakness. But as I said, I want it ALL. My audio amigo, Russell, has been doing some DAC comparisons himself. Although he's currently using a (slightly modified) Black Ice tube DAC, he says that he can get NOTICEABLY better sound out of an older Aurilac streamer/DAC that he has. But he says that the Aurilac isn't at its best without a hot-rod power supply that Aurilac has loaned him. From what I'm hearing in Russell's latest setup, I think he's onto something (again). His system consistently images better than any other I've heard. Does AC purification make a difference? I can't say that it doesn't. The best preamp I've owned so far (the Audio-gd HE-1) has its own AC regenerator in the preamp itself. Is that the secret to it's sound? Maybe... Boom Understood its easy to do, exaggerate in this hobby, one way or the other. FWIW, still to this day anyone who has heard my system seems to prefer the vinyl over the digital with few if any exceptions. By all accounts the digital setup should be considerably better than the vinyl, however my main phono pre-amp is tube based while the digital is all solid state. Perhaps its the tube electronics that make all the difference rather than analog vs digital. I'm not convinced either if the vast majority of digital recordings are all they could be. This certainly plays into our perceptions, misplaced as they might be to blame the equipment such as the DAC's, CD player etc. By any measure there is an order of magnitude more musical work being recorded and produced than in any other time in history. It seems highly unlikely the majority of the recording engineers, producers and mastering engineers are actually up to the task of producing truly great recordings regardless of the genre of music. This is a harsh criticism granted, but something which needs to be considered. Effectively you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear or put another way the best DAC in the world (if there is one) will not make a mediocre recording sound great, liquid and alive. Also worth considering regarding R2R Ladder DAC's, given the complexity and cost of building and designing these things compared to Sigma-Delta chips (or is that Delta-Sigma) its my suspicion the price of admission to obtain the maximum capabilities and performance from this type of technology ramps up precipitously. Case in point, as Emotiva, Oppo and many others have proven you can make a superb Sigma-Delta DAC for $500±, no one is going to do that implementing R2R Ladder technology, not even close. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 20, 2020 20:49:47 GMT -5
My friend, Russell's system is such that he can play a phonograph record and a CD, and you can't tell the difference. I know this is a hard statement to swallow, but I've heard it. And Russell has "cost no object" equipment available in both phono & digital. The funny thing is that the majority of Russell's system is NOT expensive. He'd rather use a classic audio component, modify it slightly, and run that rather than to spend multiple thousands of dollars on current models.
That said, a number of audio companies visit Russell routinely to hear their components (the multi-thousand dollar ones) in his system. Those manufacturers also frequently rent Russell's equipment to take to audio shows for the demonstration of their own items.
Last time I visited him, Russell was using a Windows laptop running JRiver, a Black Ice tube DAC, a passive, unbalanced preamp, his usual Crown PSA-2 power amplifier for the speakers, his usual Dahlquist DQ LP1 crossover and Eagle 7a power amplifier for the subs. His two subs are dual Crown sub boxes with two RTR 10" drivers each. His speakers (at the time of my visit) were stacked & inverted Dahlquist DQ-10s.
Doesn't sound like much money or much "audiophile high-end" does it? But what he can do with that rig is jaw dropping. Literally. Next time I'm over there, I'll take photos. But the photos can't convey the sound.
Boomzilla
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Whoops, sorry - it's from Singapore! 
