How long do Maggies last?

[boomzilla]

Although it isn't unusual to find 50-year-old Klipsch speakers still meeting their factory specs and playing great, the Magneplanar brand speakers all seem to have a comparatively rapid demise. The common problems (from what I read) include:

1. delamination of the tweeter conductors from their mylar backing
2. delamination of the woofer conductors from their mylar backing
3. loss of tension on the woofer and/or tweeter panels
4. drifting of crossover component values
5. intermittent contact between the crossover and the panels
6. physical damage to the mylar panels

The repair of such problems requires specific tensioning tools and equipment (not to mention toxic solvents and glues) that make DIY repairs a very iffy proposition. The weight and size of the panels makes return for factory refurbishing less than cost-efficient. So ultimately, after a certain period of time, virtually all Magnepan products become scrap since they aren't cost-efficient to repair. And although obsolescence isn't unique to Magnepan, it is definitely more likely. With cone speakers, the surrounds can be user-replaced, or else replacement drivers are economical to purchase and ship. With dome drivers, replacements are even more cost-efficient. But Maggies are just not easily user-repairable.

So the owner buys Magneplanars with the understanding that there is a limited service life, after which the residual value becomes virtually zero. My question, specifically, is "how long is that service life?" 10 years? 15? 20? I'd guess closer to the middle of that range provided that the speakers are always used in a humidity-controlled environment and that they are never played at very high volumes. Maybe even less than 10 years if either of those parameters don't occur?

This increases the "per year" cost of ownership for Magneplanar products compared to conventional "driver in a box" type speakers. Obviously the Maggie-faithful consider the cost acceptable for the performance received, and that's a valid choice. But assuming one were to buy new Magnepan speakers today, what is a reasonable interval to keep them before selling? Obviously, one wants to sell before the common problems occur, and before the resale value drops too significantly.

Magnepan owners?

Thanks - Boomzilla

[gfaulk]

Mar 16, 2020 6:06:06 GMT -5 boomzilla said:

Although it isn't unusual to find 50-year-old Klipsch speakers still meeting their factory specs and playing great, the Magneplanar brand speakers all seem to have a comparatively rapid demise. The common problems (from what I read) include:

1. delamination of the tweeter conductors from their mylar backing
2. delamination of the woofer conductors from their mylar backing
3. loss of tension on the woofer and/or tweeter panels
4. drifting of crossover component values
5. intermittent contact between the crossover and the panels
6. physical damage to the mylar panels

The repair of such problems requires specific tensioning tools and equipment (not to mention toxic solvents and glues) that make DIY repairs a very iffy proposition. The weight and size of the panels makes return for factory refurbishing less than cost-efficient. So ultimately, after a certain period of time, virtually all Magnepan products become scrap since they aren't cost-efficient to repair. And although obsolescence isn't unique to Magnepan, it is definitely more likely. With cone speakers, the surrounds can be user-replaced, or else replacement drivers are economical to purchase and ship. With dome drivers, replacements are even more cost-efficient. But Maggies are just not easily user-repairable.

So the owner buys Magneplanars with the understanding that there is a limited service life, after which the residual value becomes virtually zero. My question, specifically, is "how long is that service life?" 10 years? 15? 20? I'd guess closer to the middle of that range provided that the speakers are always used in a humidity-controlled environment and that they are never played at very high volumes. Maybe even less than 10 years if either of those parameters don't occur?

This increases the "per year" cost of ownership for Magneplanar products compared to conventional "driver in a box" type speakers. Obviously the Maggie-faithful consider the cost acceptable for the performance received, and that's a valid choice. But assuming one were to buy new Magnepan speakers today, what is a reasonable interval to keep them before selling? Obviously, one wants to sell before the common problems occur, and before the resale value drops too significantly.

Magnepan owners?

Thanks - Boomzilla

[klinemj]

I don't know, but I love mine for now! When they need replaced, I'll consider Maggies again...the sound is so good.

Mark

[mgbpuff]

My high school prom date, Maggie, lasted one date. My dog Maggie lasted 16 yrs. I've had my 3.6R Maggies since 2009. I listen to them more than I listen to my Revel Ultra II Salons - that should tell you something about them.

[405x5]

The Maggie’s share the common thread of many high end loudspeakers when you’re talking longevity. After 5 to 8 years (roughly) all the drivers and driver components should be re-evaluated.
I have found from relocating three times during my critical listening period, that dampness/humidity, central A.C. are HUGE factors when talking about the time in between you have before you need to do things, besides your listening habits and how hard you “drive”.

Bill

[strindl]

I've had maggies since I bought my first pair, Tympani 1d's, back in 1978. I've had many others over the years and currently own 1.6's,1.7's, mmg's and a CC3 center channel. The oldest ones I have now are the 1.6's that I purchased in 2001. I've never had any issues with any of my magnepans. I do take some precautions, for example, mine are never in any direct sunlight, and they are always in a controlled environment. I've never had any stored in a non temperature and humidity controlled area, for example. I know that older maggies, those made before Magnepan switched to a better, newer adhesive to make their panels, do have issues with the wires/foil coming loose from the mylar and causing a buzzing noise after time. I'm not certain when that switch occured, but I know it was after my 1.6's were manufactured.

[AudioHTIT]

I’ve had 5 or 6 pairs over the years, most I sold or traded within 5 years, so I can’t say how long they ultimately lasted (though those were made before ~1980). My current pair I purchased new in 2008, and they’re still going strong.

[boomzilla]

So from what I read online, it seems that the newer the Maggie, the more durable the panels are. I suppose this would be expected with improvements regarding materials and construction. So with that concern mostly alleviated, I'm waiting for Magnepan to deliver a pair of LRS panels for review. I have some doubts that the panels will be sufficient for my (rather large) room, but their radiation pattern with reduced ceiling and side-wall reflections should work well.

I'm also curious to hear how my Emotiva PA-1 amps will handle the current-hungry, four-ohm LRS speakers. Up until now, my PA-1s have been "coasting" with easy-to-drive, relatively high-sensitivity speakers. Will the amps do as well with the more demanding Maggies?

Being Magneplanar's latest model, I'm also hoping that the speakers will have a much lower volume threshold than have previous Magnepan speakers. All speakers have a "volume threshold" below which they seem to lose their dynamics. With horn speakers, such as Klipsch, the volume threshold is VERY low, and even at what most would consider "background levels," the speakers still sound alive and dynamic. Most conventional box and cone speakers have much higher volume thresholds (with a few noticeable exceptions such as the Tekton products). And panel speakers, traditionally, have relatively high volume thresholds. Since I consistently listen at lower volumes, Maggies just haven't been my preferred speakers, despite sounding very good at higher levels. If the LRS speakers have overcome the issue of sounding dead at low volumes, then the company may really have something.

I haven't read of any such change in online reviews of the LRS, but most reviewers who review Maggies are aware of the low-volume problems and do their listening at higher levels (at least, that's my theory). I'm hoping that jiggawatt amps will entice the LRS panels to exhibit better dynamics at lower volumes.

Of course, the amps I have on hand may or may not do the trick with the LRS speakers. I've got:

Emotiva PA-1 monoblocks = 270 watts


NuForce DDA-120 = 75 watts


Ashly FTX-2001 = 500 watts



I can also borrow:

Crown DC-300a = 250 watts


Crown PSA-2 = 460 watts


Crown XLS-2502 = 775 watts (2,400 watts bridged as mono blocks)


Any other suggestions as to "amps good with Maggies?"

Thanks.

[audiobill]

My Mcintosh mc-452 sounds glorious with my Maggie 3.6/R speakers, which came out in 2000. My MC275s are superb also.

Remember, Maggie placement about 5' from front wall will give you a 10ms delay, as specified, but over 3' or so is fine.

I like the tweeters on the inside, with speakers about 7' apart. Bass side of panel should measure about 2" closer to your listening position, which means a fair amount of toe-in.

With tweeters on the outside, much more parallel to front wall for the 2" requirement.

Bill

[Deleted]

Of course, the answer is a statistical one. I have a friend with a pair of Tympani IIIs he got when they were new in the late '70s. They have never been repaired except by him (I think he replaced the hinges; yes, they do have hinges). That 40+ year life is no doubt way down the right-hand tail of the distribution, but they sound great, especially with a closet door in the room partially open - he's fond of the science of room treatments, and that little change was very evident to me in AB testing. He drives them with a vintage Dynaco amp he rebuilt recently (while legally blind) from his own design to increase power by a few watts. My MMGs have reached 10 years w/o problems, even though I've taken the panels out and screwed them to a wooden frame, then did it again to flip them front-back. Now I'm just waiting for an elbow or the edge of a cat litter box to damage an exposed panel so I can get a new pair.

[jackfish]

I know that storing Magnepan speakers in their boxes can destroy the continuity of the quasi-ribbon drivers due to oxidation. Probably doesn’t help maintain planar driver integrity either.

D-Sonic amplifiers are a good match with Magnepans.



13.3" MacBook Air, 4GB RAM, 256GB SSD, iTunes/BitPerfect
MacBook Air SuperDrive
Western Digital My Book Essential 2TB USB HD
Schiit Bifrost USB DAC and Audioengine D3 DAC
Emotiva USP-1, ERC-1 and two UPA-1s
Pro-Ject Xpression III and AT440MLa
AKAI AT-2600 and Harman Kardon TD4400
Grado SR80i
Wharfedale Diamond 225
Magnestand MMG
Rythmik Audio F12

[strindl]

Magnepan also will repair or rebuild any of their speakers, if it's ever required. I live in Wisconsin which is within driving distance of their Minnesota Factory, if any of mine should need repair. I don't have room to store my audio equipment boxes, so if I shipped them, I'd need to obtain new boxes from Magnepan or an outside shipper. I wouldn't mind taking a drive there though.

[AudioHTIT]

Mar 17, 2020 5:26:37 GMT -5 boomzilla said:

I'm also curious to hear how my Emotiva PA-1 amps will handle the current-hungry, four-ohm LRS speakers. Up until now, my PA-1s have been "coasting" with easy-to-drive, relatively high-sensitivity speakers. Will the amps do as well with the more demanding Maggies?

I’ve tried both a pair of PA-1’s, and a quad (passive bi-amp) with my 20.1’s. Both configurations sounded very good, the bi-amp config seemed to have a touch more detail, but it was barely noticeable and probably not worth the trouble. As I wrote elsewhere, the PA-1’s just don’t have enough power for my Maggies in my room, but they sound good enough to pique my interest in a more powerful Class D amp, maybe a pair of stereo amps for vertical bi-amping. In the mean time my VTL MB-450’s trounce the PA-1’s with the Maggie’s, as much as I’d like to replace the VTL’s, they make it hard.

So the PA-1’s might work in your situation, at least with all but the most dynamic music. 

[strindl]

I've never heard the PA-1 , so I don't know how that one will work with maggies. Currently, my 1.6's are used with an Emotiva XPA-2 gen 1, my 1.7's have an Emotive XPA-2 gen III, the CC3 center has an Adcom GFA-555 II in bridged mode driving it. The MMG's are used as rear surround speakers in an all maggie speaker setup. That system is almost exclusively used for music. The MMG's are hooked though an Adcom GFA-2534, which is a four channel or three channel amp with one pair being able to be bridged. Those two channels driving the MMG's are rated at 60 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 90 watts per channel at 4.

I did try a Crown XLS 1500 with my 1.7's a couple years ago. The power rating is exceptional and the price was ridiculously cheap for what you get power wise. I did not like the sound through the 1.7's with that Crown Amp. It was missing something, there was just no live music sound that I'm used to hearing with Magnepans. I have no explanation for why, but I listened for most of a day with all of my go to music selections that I am very familiar with. I'd be interested in your opinion if you get a chance to try the LRS's with that Crown XLS amp you mentioned you have access to.

[quattroll]

I tried my new PA-1s with Magnepan .7i s. It didn’t take long for me to abandon the test as I noticed degradation starting at medium volumes. Interesting what you say about the “thresholds” for various speakers. I have noticed that a little bit with these .7s, but generally I think they can play lower volumes nicely.

I have run these speakers with XPA-100s to very good results. In my last posting I talk about switching them out for my XPA-1Ls (not being used now that I have PA-1 “coasting” beautifully with my Sonus Faber Toy Towers. Having listened to the 100s with the .7s for more than two years, I think the 1Ls are better by a margin that I could probably pick out every time.

Since the .7 is the next size up, and the panels are essentially the same for the LRS, the PA-1s might just make it work but not in the higher output region.

Good luck with the amp experiments.

[audiobill]

I understand that Magnepan makes reasonably priced rebuild "kits"

May be worth you, or a handy friend, looking into....

[jmasterj]

I purchased my current pair of MMG's in 2010 they look and sound just as good today as they did when I first got them. For the first few years they were my only pair of speakers then in 2013 I decided I wanted floor standers and bookshelf speakers with my planers so Tekton Mini Lores were added, the next year or so my JBL bookshelf speakers joined the collection since then two pair of Polk SDA's were added so the Maggie's are part of a five pairs rotation at this rate they may go another five to ten years easily. I don't re-box them in between they stay set up on their platforms off the floor in their space in my bedroom until needed. I will replace them if and when the time comes.

[boomzilla]

Mar 17, 2020 8:50:57 GMT -5 jackfish said:

I know that storing Magnepan speakers in their boxes can destroy the continuity of the quasi-ribbon drivers due to oxidation...

Hi jackfish -

Pardon my ignorance, but why would storage in boxes vs. out of the boxes make any difference in oxidation? Isn't the oxygen content and humidity the same both inside and outside of a cardboard box?

Thanks - Boom

[SteveH]

Mar 16, 2020 6:06:06 GMT -5 boomzilla said:

Although it isn't unusual to find 50-year-old Klipsch speakers still meeting their factory specs and playing great, the Magneplanar brand speakers all seem to have a comparatively rapid demise. The common problems (from what I read) include:

1. delamination of the tweeter conductors from their mylar backing
2. delamination of the woofer conductors from their mylar backing
3. loss of tension on the woofer and/or tweeter panels
4. drifting of crossover component values
5. intermittent contact between the crossover and the panels
6. physical damage to the mylar panels

So the owner buys Magneplanars with the understanding that there is a limited service life, after which the residual value becomes virtually zero. My question, specifically, is "how long is that service life?" 10 years? 15? 20? I'd guess closer to the middle of that range provided that the speakers are always used in a humidity-controlled environment and that they are never played at very high volumes. Maybe even less than 10 years if either of those parameters don't occur?

This increases the "per year" cost of ownership for Magneplanar products compared to conventional "driver in a box" type speakers.

I do not have Maggies, but I have Carver Platinums with 60" electrostatic ribbon drivers, it has been 28 years with no electrostatic issues ( I am sure you just jinxed me ).  I did have to replace all eight cone woofers due to the surround material deteriorating.  As far as playing them loud, that is the normal mode of operation for mine.  So far my ribbons have cost me $142/year, plus the one time fee of $500 to replace the eight 12" cone drivers.

[boomzilla]

Mar 18, 2020 4:20:05 GMT -5 SteveH said:

...I have Carver Platinums with 60" electrostatic ribbon drivers, it has been 28 years with no electrostatic issues ( I am sure you just jinxed me )...

Hi SteveH -

NO worries - As I understand it, Carver used a tweeter that is all aluminum - no voice coil bonded to mylar. If my understanding is right, then other than possible dust build-up and/or galvanic corrosion where the copper wiring is attached to the aluminum ribbons, your tweeters should last almost forever.