KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,901
|
Post by KeithL on May 15, 2020 12:33:49 GMT -5
I'm with you.... right up until that last part. It is almost never a good idea to use a Fast Blow fuse where a Slow Blow fuse has been specified.
Unless the device you have shipped with a Fast Blow fuse then you should NEVER use one with an amplifier (or anything else that includes a power supply). (If you do, there is a very good chance that the Fast Blow fuse will blow... EVEN IF NOTHING IS WRONG.)
Most power supplies draw a significant surge of current for a split second when they first power on. This is known as "inrush current" (and even devices that include "inrush limiters" tend to draw some inrush current - although perhaps less than otherwise).
Because Fast Blow fuses are NOT designed with this in mind they will tend to blow when that inrush current hits them. So, if you put a Fast Blow fuse in a device that is designed to use a Slow Blow fuse, it may well blow, even if nothing is wrong.
However, even if a Fast Blow fuse doesn't blow right away, there is a good chance that it will blow eventually, for two reasons.... First, the inrush current will vary, depending on where you are in the power cycle when the switch turns on, so sometimes there is more than at other times. Second, Fast Blow fuses aren't designed to tolerate even brief current surges, so they may eventually actually fatigue and blow at a lower value. (These are the reasons why Slow Blow fuses are specified in the first place.)
The only time you should EVER substitute a Fast Blow fuse for a Slow Blow fuse is if you are performing certain sorts of diagnostics.... (And, yes, in certain situations Fast Blow fuses ARE appropriate, and, in those situations, they will be specified.)
Uh-oh... If the fuse blew and you weren’t overdriving the plate amp it could be a problem with the amp itself. Try a fast-blow fuse first. If it pops instantly, let Emotiva know. Yeah that was Keith's thought. Basically if the fuse blows again it's most likely something bad in the amp. He was not sure if they could just ship me a new amp or if I would have to send the entire sub to Emotiva (Which be a huge PIA to ship). Hopefully they can just send me the amp if needed since it should be a fairly simple swap out.
|
|
|
Post by davidl81 on May 15, 2020 15:29:01 GMT -5
I'm with you.... right up until that last part. It is almost never a good idea to use a Fast Blow fuse where a Slow Blow fuse has been specified.
Unless the device you have shipped with a Fast Blow fuse then you should NEVER use one with an amplifier (or anything else that includes a power supply). (If you do, there is a very good chance that the Fast Blow fuse will blow... EVEN IF NOTHING IS WRONG.)
Most power supplies draw a significant surge of current for a split second when they first power on. This is known as "inrush current" (and even devices that include "inrush limiters" tend to draw some inrush current - although perhaps less than otherwise).
Because Fast Blow fuses are NOT designed with this in mind they will tend to blow when that inrush current hits them. So, if you put a Fast Blow fuse in a device that is designed to use a Slow Blow fuse, it may well blow, even if nothing is wrong.
However, even if a Fast Blow fuse doesn't blow right away, there is a good chance that it will blow eventually, for two reasons.... First, the inrush current will vary, depending on where you are in the power cycle when the switch turns on, so sometimes there is more than at other times. Second, Fast Blow fuses aren't designed to tolerate even brief current surges, so they may eventually actually fatigue and blow at a lower value. (These are the reasons why Slow Blow fuses are specified in the first place.)
The only time you should EVER substitute a Fast Blow fuse for a Slow Blow fuse is if you are performing certain sorts of diagnostics.... (And, yes, in certain situations Fast Blow fuses ARE appropriate, and, in those situations, they will be specified.)
Yeah that was Keith's thought. Basically if the fuse blows again it's most likely something bad in the amp. He was not sure if they could just ship me a new amp or if I would have to send the entire sub to Emotiva (Which be a huge PIA to ship). Hopefully they can just send me the amp if needed since it should be a fairly simple swap out. Keith, Ok, just so I CYA, are you saying the correct fuse to install in the S15 is the 250V 7A slow burn fuse? I called the other day and you guys were not sure on the fuse. I have both so installing either is no problem. I just put in the fast burn and it worked fine, but if Emotiva recommends slow burn I will change it out ASAP.
|
|
|
Post by jbones on May 21, 2020 21:02:19 GMT -5
Hey Boom
Long time lurker, first time poster. I’ve been following your thread for quite some time and I really enjoy your reviews. I just set up a new 5.1 system consisting of Emotiva T1+ towers for L+R, C1+ center, B1+ surrounds, and an S-15 sub. All are paired with a Denon AVR-x3500h. I’d like to upgrade to separates at a future point, but this is what the budget allows for. Got an amazing deal on the 5.1 setup thanks to the 30% back in Emobucks and the fantastic closeout on the sub! I am bi-amping the L+R with the built-in feature on the Denon and it does help with low end quite a bit and provides a bit more detail in the mids and highs as well. Sorry for the background rant. My question revolves around the S-15 sub. I am hearing that same muddiness you experienced with the passive woofer. I believe you said you pulled them out from the wall and placed them on stands to get the most out of them. I am somewhat limited on what I can do with mine due to space, however, I can pull it away from the wall a little and place it on a stand like you did. Could you tell me a bit more detail about what worked for you so I can try it? How far from the wall? How tall are the stands and what are they made out of? Any chance you can provide a picture?
Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on May 24, 2020 6:08:07 GMT -5
Hi jbones - The stands I use were chosen because they're available (and paid for). They were / are Sanus "Euro" stands that are now discontinued. The stands place the subs about 12 to 14 inches away from the floor. Mine have rollers on them. Although the rollers aren't ideal for bass response, they do allow me to roll the subs about to try different positions, and allow me to roll the subs back against the wall when not in use. If you're going to get stands, I recommend some heavy-duty ones (or build your own) - the subs are heavy. I find that the farther from the wall I can put the subs, the less they boom. In my room, the biggest practical distance is about 12 to 24 inches away from the back wall. You'll find that without floor or wall reinforcement, the gain on the sub plate amp needs to be set higher to achieve the same blend with your main speakers. You may also find that lowering the crossover frequency on your AVR will remove some of the boom. The subs aren't at their best when crossed over at 80 Hz. on up. I cross mine over lower than many would, and let the subs literally handle the bottom octave only. My subs run from 20 to about 50 Hz. Their actual frequency response is from about 25 to 45 Hz. This works with most speakers on the market (and should also work fine with your T1s). You might have to run the filter as high as 60 Hz, but I'd try not to go any higher. You could also try to make the sub cabinets less resonant, but they're already fairly well built, and I don't honestly think it's worth the trouble. Since you have only one sub, getting it off the floor and putting it on rollers will certainly give you a lot more flexibility in sub placement. Your greatest improvement will come from finding the right location in the room for your sub. You'll need a LONG subwoofer signal cord and power cord, or you could buy one of Emotiva's wireless transmitters (an expensive, but definitely better solution). The main expense to you will be time - you'll want to try the sub in a variety of different positions to find its best performance. Boomzilla
|
|
|
Post by jbones on May 28, 2020 9:47:22 GMT -5
Thanks Boom!
Unfortunately, I am very limited in placement of the sub, and due to the sheer size of it, I only have room for one. Probably could have went with 2 S12s had I realized just how big this thing is. (But I have a hard time thinking about that after having heard how low this beast can go!) I can either place the sub on the left or or right side of my media stand and between the L+R mains. I tried both sides and did not hear an appreciable difference in sound, unfortunately. I did pull it away from the wall about 12 inches and that helped. I will have to look into stand options or build my own as you suggested. Audyssey actually set my L+R mains crossover at 40 Hz which really surprised me. I felt that was too low and manually set them to 50 Hz. The sub does seem to blend well at this level. I also feel like I’ll need some corner bass traps as a couple of seats on one side of the room get an excess of boominess as compared to my main listening position. Have you any experience with these and any recommendations on relatively affordable brands?
Thanks again for your help and suggestions!
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on May 28, 2020 12:06:07 GMT -5
Again - If you have time and inclination, you can build your own bass traps, and considering the price of the commercial ones, that may be the best option...
If you'd prefer to buy some, I've had good luck with ATS products, but lots of folks like GLK as well.
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on May 28, 2020 14:11:37 GMT -5
Thanks Boom! Unfortunately, I am very limited in placement of the sub, and due to the sheer size of it, I only have room for one. Probably could have went with 2 S12s had I realized just how big this thing is. (But I have a hard time thinking about that after having heard how low this beast can go!) I can either place the sub on the left or or right side of my media stand and between the L+R mains. I tried both sides and did not hear an appreciable difference in sound, unfortunately. I did pull it away from the wall about 12 inches and that helped. I will have to look into stand options or build my own as you suggested. Audyssey actually set my L+R mains crossover at 40 Hz which really surprised me. I felt that was too low and manually set them to 50 Hz. The sub does seem to blend well at this level. I also feel like I’ll need some corner bass traps as a couple of seats on one side of the room get an excess of boominess as compared to my main listening position. Have you any experience with these and any recommendations on relatively affordable brands? Thanks again for your help and suggestions! Bass traps are not very effective in correcting for for bass. I believe there is only one (very expensive unit) that can actually treat bass waves. However bass traps will improve the sound. I recommend any type of room treatment.
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on May 28, 2020 14:22:38 GMT -5
If you want to listen to what bass traps might do to improve the acoustics try rolling a couple of old blankets into cylinders. Tie them with string or thin rope and stand them up in the corners. Use 4 if you need more height and stack one on top of the other.
Cheers Gary
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,213
|
Post by novisnick on May 28, 2020 14:57:16 GMT -5
If you want to listen to what bass traps might do to improve the acoustics try rolling a couple of old blankets into cylinders. Tie them with string or thin rope and stand them up in the corners. Use 4 if you need more height and stack one on top of the other. Cheers Gary I’ve had friends throw a rug ot laundry on the floor in front of the two speakers as well. Doing both, your suggestions and this will give a great idea as to the sound difference traps and treatments would make. Good luck and have fun! 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on May 28, 2020 15:27:53 GMT -5
And I thought Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry" was about something other than room treatment!?!
|
|
|
Post by jbones on May 29, 2020 10:00:29 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I will give your suggestions a try. Though, I’ll have to wait until the lady isn’t around to try the laundry method!
|
|