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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 27, 2020 8:34:29 GMT -5
I have so many friends who much prefer the traditional RCA-unbalanced interconnects. But whenever possible, I prefer to use balanced XLRs even if the internal circuitry of the component is not fully balanced. Why?
1. My experience is that XLR cables are far less prone to picking up hum. With a perpetual "rats-nest" of wiring behind my equipment stand, it is the norm for power cords and signal interconnects to reside in close proximity. Because I have to change components so often as a reviewer, it just isn't feasible to neatly dress all the wires.
2. Even components without internally balanced circuitry do noise-cancelling from their XLR inputs. So you get the benefits of noise cancelling whether or not the component's circuitry is truly balanced.
3. I've found that XLR connectors are more robust than RCA ones. The grounding sleeves on RCA connectors can become loose if frequently used, and the "wiper pin" on the hot tip of the RCA plugs can sometimes lose tension and become intermittent.
4. Locking connectors - most XLR connections have a spring-loaded "lock" that prevents accidental disconnection. RCA connectors are strictly friction-fit, and can be accidentally dislodged when trying to disentangle other wires behind the equipment stand.
5. High quality XLR interconnects are more common (and far less expensive) than high-quality RCA ones. The tiny solder points of RCA connectors are too easy to flex, to break, and to become intermittent. This is true regardless of brand. Yet even a cheap XLR connector from Guitar Center will work for years of frequent connection and disconnection without metal fatigue. Further, the connections of the XLR male or female end are usually stress-relieved by the connector housing, and even if someone yanks on the cable, the soldered connectors are unlikely to be subjected to any stress.
Now obviously, if you connect your system and then don't touch the interconnects again for a year or more, who cares about the above differences? But for my use, I like XLRs.
Boomzilla
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 27, 2020 8:47:24 GMT -5
That was a very insightful and thorough list... The one thing I would add is that locking RCA connectors do actually exist...
(You tighten the shield and the ground sleeve tightens down like a tiny drill chuck.) There are several companies who make them.
The catch is that they are very secure - and most people don't expect RCA cables to lock. It isn't obvious that they lock and, if you try to unplug them without unlocking them, they may rip the jack right out of the unit.
Some people also prefer the idea that, with regular RCA plugs, if they accidentally trip over a wire, it may just pop loose... Rather than break the connector or pull your gear off the rack onto the floor... (Or you landing on your nose if you trip over the wire and it stays firmly in place.)
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 27, 2020 8:52:49 GMT -5
Unless they are Tiff like connectors. If non Tiff, you will rip off the ground sleeve off the connector. Monster Turbine connectors were notorious for such a thing if not removed correctly. I was more of a fan of the screw on from the ferrule barrel to clamp down, but otherwise I check the seat of my connectors from time to time to ensure good contact. I like balanced allot too. But for my Project studio environment more so perhaps for just my music listening where I am not quite as OCD about that matter. Though coincidentally my Balanced connections coincide with my Music listening as my project studio is shared with my music listening as well. Fact of the matter both Unbalanced and Balanced work just fine. Depends on 2 things. What you want, and what is your application, or workflow requirements. Tiffany Connector for reference RCA Unbalanced Female.  |
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Post by repeetavx on Mar 27, 2020 8:58:02 GMT -5
What an excellent post.
Some other points to consider.
"Some people" believe that the composition of the interconnects wire, or the material in the shielding effects the signal and changes the "sound" being transmitted. If either or both of these ideas have any truth to them, then what ever effect the medium is having on the "sound", must be applied identically to both legs of a balanced connection, or it will be cancelled out. In my own experience, even cheap balanced cables have a more consistent "neutral" sound than single ended RCA cables do.
Also, if you believe in "cable lifters" or any other environmental modifying device, their need will be mostly negated, again by the balanced transmission mechanics cancelling out any "funny business".
Having tried many single ended cable brands and styles throughout the years, I can say by experience that most every XLR transmission cable, regardless of brand or cable composition, will give you the same uncolored, neutral, and faithful sound.
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 27, 2020 9:05:26 GMT -5
As the O.P. points out, XLR’s can end up being a catch 22, if the attached components topography is unbalanced.
That being said, they are my “go to” IF I’ve got a noise/hum problem (and only if).
For all of what seems superior in the construction of an XLR connector, I find them to be extraneous and the wire itself usually is nothing to write home about in between compared to a high quality RCA interconnect.
Bill
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Post by cwmcobra on Mar 27, 2020 10:48:19 GMT -5
Excellent list! I would add that there is variation in the friction between the RCA connectors and the jacks that they plug into. Some seem really tight and unless very careful, could be stressed or damaged when either connecting or disconnecting. I suspect there is a much higher probability of an RCA jack needing replacement than that of the XLR jacks. IMHO...
Chuck
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 27, 2020 10:59:58 GMT -5
...there is variation in the friction between the RCA connectors and the jacks that they plug into. Some seem really tight and unless very careful, could be stressed or damaged when either connecting or disconnecting. I suspect there is a much higher probability of an RCA jack needing replacement than that of the XLR jacks...Chuck That's my experience too. I've destroyed one expensive pair of RCA interconnects trying to get them unplugged from a pair of fat jacks. I've also destroyed a pair of older jacks when the grounding shrouds tore loose with the tight interconnects, |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 27, 2020 11:02:30 GMT -5
That was a very insightful and thorough list... Coming from you, KeithL, I consider that very high praise indeed! But, being a simple topic, I was bound to get something right eventually... LOL Stay safe, y'all! Boom |
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Post by quattroll on Mar 28, 2020 16:00:42 GMT -5
I too am on the Balanced Connector bandwagon. I haven't noticed noise in years, and it is probably my balanced connections. I have also damaged a few RCAs on pieces along the way, namely a UPA-1 and another on a XPA-5. It was only a problem until I got some Monoprice XLR to RCA wires, but then I started to get balanced components, like XPA-1L, XPA-100, 200, XDA-2, DC-1, and XMC-1. In fact I sold 3 UPA-1s just to switch to Tiffany connectors.
I am also amazed how seldom I see Tiffany connectors on expensive and highly regarded gear. For a marginal increase in expense, the insurance of not breaking a connector seems like a must.
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Post by donh50 on Mar 29, 2020 10:23:37 GMT -5
A balanced (differential, actually, technically not the same thing) connection should also provide 3 dB increase in SNR, all else equal.
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 29, 2020 10:46:37 GMT -5
That was a very insightful and thorough list... The one thing I would add is that locking RCA connectors do actually exist...
(You tighten the shield and the ground sleeve tightens down like a tiny drill chuck.) There are several companies who make them. The catch is that they are very secure - and most people don't expect RCA cables to lock. It isn't obvious that they lock and, if you try to unplug them without unlocking them, they may rip the jack right out of the unit. Some people also prefer the idea that, with regular RCA plugs, if they accidentally trip over a wire, it may just pop loose... Rather than break the connector or pull your gear off the rack onto the floor... (Or you landing on your nose if you trip over the wire and it stays firmly in place.) I have to call Keith out on the tripping over a cable. If that is happening your setup process is flawed. There is no excuse for that happening with situational awareness of your surroundings, and proper cable management. Cables are a trip hazard when we make them. Don't be that person. No one is saying kick in the OCD, but route your cables away from any walk paths and never induce a trip hazard. Let's be safe out there, okay?! |
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Post by RichGuy on Mar 29, 2020 10:52:46 GMT -5
I definitely prefer balanced all the way and use balanced cables every time I have the option. I also very much prefer Neutrik XLR connectors for their quality and design they are very well made and nicely designed both for using as well as making cables. For wire I always use and prefer Mogami wire, my favorite wire for its quality build and design as well as sound quality.
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 29, 2020 11:14:45 GMT -5
A balanced (differential, actually, technically not the same thing) connection should also provide 3 dB increase in SNR, all else equal. Absolutely true. Full Differential means just that in that no phase splitters, or summing occurs in the circuit. It is harder to do, and more expensive, but for many happiness happens. Listen to Lonnie Vaughn explain balanced and what it means. One of those YouTube videos. You know. He does a great job explaining why it's a good thing. The world does not come to an end if you don't use balanced, only when the world supply of toilet paper is exhausted. Okay kidding on that last one. Both topologies work. Pure and simple. To me it is a tool box, application, and the tools. Simple! You need balanced go ahead, make it happen. It works a treat. Unbalanced does the job too. Some may swear by, some can't tell the difference, or care. I keep on the connection that gets my workflow at its best. |
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 30, 2020 8:59:42 GMT -5
I’d be MORE interested in hearing stories from those who have had a hum/noise issue and went after and solved the ROOT CAUSE of it instead of swapping interconnects within the system.
Anything that’s powered by the panel and improperly grounded, can be the guilty party, or circuits running off it that get improperly tied into a junction box somewhere along the way...there are many things, particularly in older construction....ungrounded outlets etc.
Bill
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Post by donh50 on Mar 30, 2020 11:06:25 GMT -5
All my outlets were properly grounded and yet I had a ground loop (hum). The issue happens because the safety ("earth") ground is different for different components especially when plugged into different places. This happens fairly often in the consumer world and frequently in the pro world (sound reinforcement). It is not that any one of the grounds is "wrong", just that they are different, which happens when you have subs in the back of the room and electronics stack up front, or mixer at the back the venue and power amps up front by the speaker stack.
Balanced connections take a variety of forms from true differential to several flavors of quasi-differential and not all isolate the ground. At home, switching to XLR for the rear subs solved the problem. In other situations, I've had to lift the ground at one end of the XLR cable (either by unscrewing the wire capture connection, by unsoldering or cutting the wire, or by using a commercial box made for that purpose).
So swapping interconnects is a viable solution much of the time. Not to say you won't find a bad outlet at home, but unless the house is very old that is rare IME. Old theaters can be a mixed bag...
Under no circumstances should a "cheater" plug be used. I have used one for debug but know what to watch out for, and in some cases it does indeed raise the chassis voltage and create a hazardous situation. I always measure to make sure that has not happened in testing. If a cheater plug works, then I move on to figuring out a proper final solution.
FWIWFM - Don
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 30, 2020 14:15:28 GMT -5
I’d be MORE interested in hearing stories from those who have had a hum/noise issue and went after and solved the ROOT CAUSE of it instead of swapping interconnects within the system. Anything that’s powered by the panel and improperly grounded, can be the guilty party, or circuits running off it that get improperly tied into a junction box somewhere along the way...there are many things, particularly in older construction....ungrounded outlets etc. Bill Hi Bill - The most common cause of hum in the system is having equipment grounded to a cable TV box. The cable repair guy told me that is the root cause of hum in 95% plus of the cases he's called on. Says the best solution is to use TOSLINK optical from the cable box to the hi-fi. That way, there IS no common ground. Was he right? I don't know. But he solved my hum issue immediately. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Mar 30, 2020 21:11:07 GMT -5
I like balanced connectors better than RCA because I find when I use them, I tend to sit upright - more balanced - in my proper seating position. This helps left/right balance of the sound and doesn't irritate my nagging back injuries from my youth as a competition water skier.
Mark
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 31, 2020 10:19:11 GMT -5
I like balanced connectors better than RCA because I find when I use them, I tend to sit upright - more balanced - in my proper seating position. This helps left/right balance of the sound and doesn't irritate my nagging back injuries from my youth as a competition water skier. Mark My 66” EP is gathering a lot of dust these days! Bill |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Mar 31, 2020 10:39:13 GMT -5
I like balanced connectors better than RCA because I find when I use them, I tend to sit upright - more balanced - in my proper seating position. This helps left/right balance of the sound and doesn't irritate my nagging back injuries from my youth as a competition water skier. Mark My 66” EP is gathering a lot of dust these days! Bill So are my 72" Connelly jumpers... Mark |
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 31, 2020 12:04:28 GMT -5
My 66” EP is gathering a lot of dust these days! Bill So are my 72" Connelly jumpers... Mark I’ll never forget the first time I REALLY felt it in my lower back doing slalom in a big chop. These days I maintain a lower back regimen with an abdominal crunch roller bar to keep myself from becoming debilitated. So far so good! Bill |
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