Airmotiv S12 vs Airmotiva S15

[miata57]

Hello

I am not sure which to get.  I do not have experience with high end sub-woofers.  Yes the S15 is bigger has more power and has a great sale price but maybe it is over kill.
It would be great to hear from anyone who has had experience with either of these subs.

I will be hooking them up to an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and some UP-1 monoblocks, and Magnepan .7 the speakers.

I do play music load and like bass.

Is this an obvious decision ? Hence my stupid question

Thanks Guys
Howie

[megash0n]

Apr 14, 2020 19:34:14 GMT -5 miata57 said:

Hello

I am not sure which to get.  I do not have experience with high end sub-woofers.  Yes the S15 is bigger has more power and has a great sale price but maybe it is over kill.
It would be great to hear from anyone who has had experience with either of these subs.

I will be hooking them up to an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and some UP-1 monoblocks, and Magnepan .7 the speakers.

I do play music load and like bass.

Is this an obvious decision ? Hence my stupid question

Thanks Guys
Howie

I don't think you can ever move too much air!

[Lsc]

Apr 14, 2020 19:34:14 GMT -5 miata57 said:

Hello

I am not sure which to get.  I do not have experience with high end sub-woofers.  Yes the S15 is bigger has more power and has a great sale price but maybe it is over kill.
It would be great to hear from anyone who has had experience with either of these subs.

I will be hooking them up to an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and some UP-1 monoblocks, and Magnepan .7 the speakers.

I do play music load and like bass.

Is this an obvious decision ? Hence my stupid question

Thanks Guys
Howie

If you are getting the sub primarily for movies, the 12 will probably be more than sufficient. Based on your info it seems like you have a 2 channel rig. Also the smaller sub may blend better with your Magnepans.

[creimes]

You like it loud with lots of bass then get two S12, you will have a more even in room response with two, I know someone with 8 subs in their room so don't think two is too many as it doesn't mean you will have them at max volume. If you figure just one then S15 all the way but personally I would do either two 10's or two 12's before one 15"

Chad

[boomzilla]

Movies? Get the S-15.

Music? Definitely the S-12 (or even the S-8 or the RS-13).

[garbulky]

There's no such thing as too big imo at least for sizes up to 15 and 18 inches. However, the size would ONLY be a consideration if you couldn't accomodate such a large size or don't like the looks of it. The S15 is an EXCELLENT subwoofer. But if you wanted to buying two S12's would be better than one S15. (And two S15's is better than two S12's).

[vcautokid]

Moving mass folks. The 12 will be superior here. No two ways about it. The 15 will reach down a bit more. But for music where speed and the beat count, my money is on the 12. Maybe for extra bit downstairs it is the 15, but seriously I never really liked the transient response from many 15s. Though a couple of makes knock me on the floor literally in home theater no doubt. With Maggie's especially swing the 12. You will glad you did. If you wanted to take 12s and call me in the morning to thank me you could. If you wanted that bit more reinforcement. 2 12s smoke a 15 all day long. No contest.

[garbulky]

For me the difference is between one sub vs two. Two subs undoubtedly provide a smoother response that is more three dimensional and natural sounding. However a single larger sub can dig down in to the deeper regions better. Ideally you want two large subs. I have no doubt that either the S12 and the S15's in dual configuration would be real knockouts.

[boomzilla]

Although garbulky is right, the S-15s take careful placement to avoid sounding muddy. I had to move mine off the floor (using stands) and away from the walls.

[creimes]

Apr 15, 2020 6:08:32 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Moving mass folks. The 12 will be superior here. No two ways about it. The 15 will reach down a bit more. But for music where speed and the beat count, my money is on the 12. Maybe for extra bit downstairs it is the 15, but seriously I never really liked the transient response from many 15s. Though a couple of makes knock me on the floor literally in home theater no doubt. With Maggie's especially swing the 12. You will glad you did. If you wanted to take 12s and call me in the morning to thank me you could. If you wanted that bit more reinforcement. 2 12s smoke a 15 all day long. No contest.

I have two 18's and they have never failed at sounding good for music, I had two 10's as well at one point and I'll take the two 18's in every aspect, I'm still uncertain why so many think smaller subs are better than larger ones, might as well start telling people to get the little 5" subs that come with HTIB packages, being only 5" they will be faster my two Mach 5 IXL-18 are powered by a Behringer NX6000 amp that easily controls the woofers of my subs and they are very musical

Like mentioned though bigger subs that go lower and have more output take more time to setup properly and room treatments really help out a lot.

Chad

I sold these but have two of the same drivers that when I get time to I am building new boxes, just gotta get off my ass buttocks

[vcautokid]

Hey Creimes it works for you. That is what counts. Who cares about anybody else? Your system, your room, your content, your taste. Our hobby is all about different solutions for different applications. Just keeping it fun and keeping it real. Everyone's mileage as always will vary.

[creimes]

Apr 15, 2020 11:45:59 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Hey Creimes it works for you. That is what counts. Who cares about anybody else? Your system, your room, your content, your taste. Our hobby is all about different solutions for different applications. Just keeping it fun and keeping it real. Everyone's mileage as always will vary.

I'm just going by first hand experience from myself and others I know, my one buddy here likes it loud and has two 12" klipsch subs and it sounds like garbage as they run at max when he has it turned up and the bass is sloppy and distorted so being smaller and so called faster doesn't mean anything in the end, my 18's barely move to have output I need which in the end equates to a much better sounding low end, I apologize if I sound brash but it bugs me to see people told to go with smaller subs haha, and yes not everyone needs larger displacement but when someone mentions they like bass and like it loud there is no replacement for displacement

Chad

[vcautokid]

Everything sounds like crap when an amplifier is out of control and a driver exceeds V-Max. Not just a Klipsch. All Subwoofers have their limits like anything else. It is all relative. I have an SVS-13 Ultra and I would get evicted before I ever found out what the limit is. Even my bedroom has the PB-1000 too. But that is why there is Subwoofers that go from 8 inches to the sky is the limit. I had better luck with smaller subwoofers and the big ones sounded good in the right place. Key! The right place and right conditions. It is not axiom necessarily that bigger is better and so on all the time. Keith could bore the Schiit out of you infinitely. I love Keith but his theory-itis is well, but mostly where I go, 12s do it for me. I have a buddy with 4 twelves that knock it out of the park in his room. He has about 15 kilowatts to play with. Reference levels are a joke to him. A bunch of Emotiva stuff and some vintage stuff that is really the business too. So I can do well with bigger or smaller, but with my lifestyle, bigger will never be better. In his? Maybe.

[annjones13]

I still have a Sunfire True sub 10” that is fun to watch. It has huge X mas and a powerful amp. It doesn’t get used much (bedroom system), but amazing for its size
Ann

[boomzilla]

I've a friend who swears that NO sub with a larger-than 10" driver will ever work well for home audio (not to say that big subs aren't appropriate for movies). Personally, I'm not convinced. As cone size increases, it's true (all other things being equal) that the moving mass is also going to increase. But one can tightly control moving mass with a low-inductance voice coil combined with a high current power amplifier. This has been discussed on the Lounge many times before.

The majority of commercial subs are designed for home theater use. They use the smallest possible boxes to economize, they use the cheapest amps possible to economize, they are ported to deliver a very peaked response curve for "slam" during movie explosions, and they are terrible choices for music.

Passive radiator designs are bad for energy storage and for phase shifting, ported designs also have energy storage issues, for the most part. But both designs CAN provide good bass, depending on the designer's skill and intent. Sealed box designs have less issues to overcome, but the drivers aren't cheap to make.

And keep in mind that a flat frequency curve makes any sub far easier to cross over to its main speakers without audible glitches.

Mr. DYohn's website does a good job of going into the details of subs. I enjoyed reading it.

[DYohn]

"No sub larger than 10" indicates lack of understanding about the physics of subwoofers and audio. It is simply wrong, as wrong as people who state "facts" such as ported subs are no good for music, or that large drivers are "slow." The bottom line is it has very little to do with the driver's diaphragm size and everything to do with system alignment and overall motor design.

My 2-channel system employed one of my DIY systems using an 18" Aurasound subwoofer for many years. Everyone who heard it was awed by the musicality of the system. YMMV.

[ttocs]

Apr 17, 2020 12:56:43 GMT -5 DYohn said:

My 2-channel system employed one of my DIY systems using an 18" Aurasound subwoofer for many years. Everyone who heard it was awed by the musicality of the system. YMMV.

I'm curious at what frequency you integrated them to the mains?
And were the mains used as Large or Small?
Scott

[DYohn]

Apr 17, 2020 15:55:09 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Apr 17, 2020 12:56:43 GMT -5 DYohn said:

My 2-channel system employed one of my DIY systems using an 18" Aurasound subwoofer for many years. Everyone who heard it was awed by the musicality of the system. YMMV.

I'm curious at what frequency you integrated them to the mains?
And were the mains used as Large or Small?
Scott

In my 2-channel system the mains were run full-range and the Xover on the subwoofer amp adjusted to fill the bottom octave as they rolled off in my room. With my Devore Orangutans that was about 48Hz.