Looking for best 3.1 Channel Pre-Pro recommendation

[Deleted]

Hello, 

I am looking for a pre-pro that utilizes a 3.1 channel system. I spend half my time viewing movies and other half listening to audio in 3.1 channels. XLR is a must. I could buy something along the lines of the Marantz AV8805 but that'll be a lot of channels I won't be utilizing. Was checking in to see what others might think. Budget will be under 4 grand. I don't know if there's a product that offers less channels but utilizes the best "chips" in the flagship models that might save me some cash? Or maybe less channels but better fidelity?  I'm looking for excellent sound in 3.1 channel. The unit needs to have XLR outputs and also RCA outputs for subwoofer. Room correction would be really nice. But most of all I'd like something that properly operates my Sony 65A8G OLED. 

Additional Info: I stream from Amazon Music HD. 

Any suggestions are appreciated! Looking to be edumucated! 

[petew]

Sounds like an XMC-1 will fit that bill for about a quarter of your budget

[frenchyfranky]

+1 also think of XMC-1 refurbished

[klinemj]

I agree on the refurb XMC-1, but a question...3.1 music...why? I can understand 3.1 for video and clear dialog in center channel, but I don't get 3.1 audio. (Not dissing you...just don't get it.)

Mark

[junchoon]

Why not 3.1?

Looks like u have never heard NKC’s SACDs

Give them a try, especially Love Is The Thing

[creimes]

Another vote for the XMC-1 but I may be biased but my system sounds the most dynamic, articulate, fuzzy, smooth, organic, revealing, and so and so on well you get the point hahaha

I've owned or tried Marantz, Sherbourn, Yamaha, Denon, Anthem and Emotiva and to my ears in my room the XMC-1 has been the most satisfying to me. Lately since I haven't gotten around to rebuilding my subs I have been listening in Reference Stereo with outstanding results, for me I love hearing the detail and sonics the XMC-1 provides.

Another great option would be the Anthem AVM60

Chad

[ttocs]

I gotta say, while the XMC-1 is a super duper deal and a steal, using the stated budget would be useful for a surprisingly improved sound quality for the LCR with the XMC-2, and still have money left over.

[klinemj]

Apr 15, 2020 19:33:57 GMT -5 junchoon said:

Why not 3.1?

Looks like u have never heard NKC’s SACDs

Give them a try, especially Love Is The Thing

If that's the only reason, it seems like a very rare source material to base a system decision on.

Mark

[Deleted]

Apr 15, 2020 20:09:50 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I gotta say, while the XMC-1 is a super duper deal and a steal, using the stated budget would be useful for a surprisingly improved sound quality for the LCR with the XMC-2, and still have money left over.

Thanks, looked at the XMC 2 and even RMC1 but I don't see unbalanced RCA outputs for subwoofers? 

I'm also leaning away from Emotiva pre-pro after tonight. Up until this point I had little ideal about the Emotiva pre-pros but it seems that they are buggy. I also note by reviewers they seemingly are more gracious or even hopeful of updates but nonetheless in the reviews the equipment is buggy. 

I'm looking for a little more reliability and ease of use than I think the Emotiva pre-pros may offer. This won't be an immediate purchase so I'll keep eyes open and observe what's going on from this point forward concerning the gear in question, however, not having RCA for subwoofers would be a deal breaker for me unless I used some kinda adapter. My current subwoofer doesn't utilize XLR. 

Thank you everyone for your inputs. 

[teaman]

Probably not exactly what you are looking for, but I'll throw this out anyways, since you are only looking for 3.1 and don't need to overpay for all the unused channels.

Like you, I have seen a history of buggy Emotiva processors, and I will probably get attacked for this, but I doubt I will ever own one. I am a huge fan of the Sherbourn processors for both stereo and surround. The sound is dynamic, and there are plenty of options with both XLR and RCA, HDMI and legacy hookups.

Sherbourn was bought out by Emotiva in 2012 or 2013 and after the merger, Emotiva took over under one name. I own five of the five of the PT-7020C4 and absolutely love them. My home has full cathedral ceilings so Atmos is not really an option. 7.2 is about as far as I can go. Since you are only concerned with 3.1, for $500 or less you can usually find either that model, the PT-7020A...which offers much of the same features of the PT-7020C4....minus the C4 control module...or the big brother flagship PT-7030 which is said to be even another step up in superiority for sound. There happens to be one on Ebay right now if you want to just check out the layout and such.

www.ebay.com/itm/Sherbourn-PT-7030-7-1-Channel-Home-Theater-Processor-PT7030/223958013499?hash=item3424f0163b:g:yfUAAOSw4O1efPU0

You can easily Google any of the models to quickly find specs and such. Good luck!


Tim

[creimes]

Apr 15, 2020 23:35:44 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Apr 15, 2020 20:09:50 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I gotta say, while the XMC-1 is a super duper deal and a steal, using the stated budget would be useful for a surprisingly improved sound quality for the LCR with the XMC-2, and still have money left over.

Thanks, looked at the XMC 2 and even RMC1 but I don't see unbalanced RCA outputs for subwoofers? 

I'm also leaning away from Emotiva pre-pro after tonight. Up until this point I had little ideal about the Emotiva pre-pros but it seems that they are buggy. I also note by reviewers they seemingly are more gracious or even hopeful of updates but nonetheless in the reviews the equipment is buggy. 

I'm looking for a little more reliability and ease of use than I think the Emotiva pre-pros may offer. This won't be an immediate purchase so I'll keep eyes open and observe what's going on from this point forward concerning the gear in question, however, not having RCA for subwoofers would be a deal breaker for me unless I used some kinda adapter. My current subwoofer doesn't utilize XLR. 

Thank you everyone for your inputs. 

I've owned two XMC-1's now and they have both been rock solid though I don't do 4K, from what I have read Emotiva processors can be buggy but are killer for SQ whereas say a Marantz is less buggy but lacks in SQ compared, Anthem makes a nice unit in the AVM-60 and as far as RCA for subwoofer, Emotiva has adapter cables or Monoprice and others offer them as well for XLR to RCA.

In my room and my ears and my experience I rate the following in order from best to worst for best 2ch SQ using no room correction that I have personally owned, I haven't owned every model of any of those brands so this is my experience but I have read about others here that found for example the Marantz AV8805 got beat by the newer Emotiva line. I think the Anthem AVM60 would go well with your gear

Emotiva XMC-1, Sherbourn PT-7030, Anthem MRX310, Sherbourn PT7020C4, Marantz AV7701

Cheers,
Chad

[boomzilla]

Apr 15, 2020 17:22:57 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I agree on the refurb XMC-1, but a question...3.1 music...why? I can understand 3.1 for video and clear dialog in center channel, but I don't get 3.1 audio. (Not dissing you...just don't get it.) Mark

There is precedent. Paul W. Klipsch did research based on Bell Telephone Labs work that showed that a three-loudspeaker array (front left - center - and right) were the minimum required (in a theater setting) to fool audiences into thinking that they were hearing live performances rather than reproduced ones. The experiment was done using a live orchestra behind a theater curtain playing in one city with a high-quality telephone link to another city. In the receiving city, different numbers of loudspeakers were set up behind the curtain of a similar theater. The audience had to vote on the question of whether the music they were hearing was live or reproduced. The experiment showed that if three or more loudspeakers were used behind the curtain, the audience could not reliably tell whether they were hearing live or reproduced music.

Klipsch consequentially recommended three-speaker arrays for home use, claiming that the experience would provide a more lifelike playback experience. Klipsch also designed two "mixing matrices" to derive a center channel from stereo right and left content. One of the matrices was intended to operate passively, at the loudspeaker end of the system. The center channel, however, had to provide the exact same efficiency as the right and left loudspeakers. The "Belle Klipsch" model was intended to be the center channel with a pair of Klipschorn loudspeakers as left and right. Realizing, however, that not all living rooms would accommodate three very large speakers, Klipsch also provided a "line level" matrix network intended to feed a third power amplifier with its own gain settings. This allowed the "Heresy" speaker to be used as a center channel with any of the other Klipsch models.

The Bell Labs experiment has never been duplicated and has never been disproved. So yes, a three speaker array DOES actually work (and work well) for stereo sources.

[megash0n]

Apr 15, 2020 23:35:44 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Apr 15, 2020 20:09:50 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I gotta say, while the XMC-1 is a super duper deal and a steal, using the stated budget would be useful for a surprisingly improved sound quality for the LCR with the XMC-2, and still have money left over.

Thanks, looked at the XMC 2 and even RMC1 but I don't see unbalanced RCA outputs for subwoofers? 

I'm also leaning away from Emotiva pre-pro after tonight. Up until this point I had little ideal about the Emotiva pre-pros but it seems that they are buggy. I also note by reviewers they seemingly are more gracious or even hopeful of updates but nonetheless in the reviews the equipment is buggy. 

I'm looking for a little more reliability and ease of use than I think the Emotiva pre-pros may offer. This won't be an immediate purchase so I'll keep eyes open and observe what's going on from this point forward concerning the gear in question, however, not having RCA for subwoofers would be a deal breaker for me unless I used some kinda adapter. My current subwoofer doesn't utilize XLR. 

Thank you everyone for your inputs. 

I really hope their leadership team reads this post and listens. The unit truly does sound amazing, and when it works correctly, I love it. Unfortunately, the stability, and the fact I understand the behavior of why it is happening, is driving me to the point I am beginning to be regretful and angry every time the simple things mess up. Basic operations like audio sync, switching inputs, decoding audio, etc should be table stakes among any company in this game. Especially if you've been doing it a decade. It is extremely disappointing because I want to recommend you reconsider because it is so awesome when it works. But, I currently cannot.

[cawgijoe]

Apr 16, 2020 5:57:44 GMT -5 megash0n said:

Apr 15, 2020 23:35:44 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Thanks, looked at the XMC 2 and even RMC1 but I don't see unbalanced RCA outputs for subwoofers? 

I'm also leaning away from Emotiva pre-pro after tonight. Up until this point I had little ideal about the Emotiva pre-pros but it seems that they are buggy. I also note by reviewers they seemingly are more gracious or even hopeful of updates but nonetheless in the reviews the equipment is buggy. 

I'm looking for a little more reliability and ease of use than I think the Emotiva pre-pros may offer. This won't be an immediate purchase so I'll keep eyes open and observe what's going on from this point forward concerning the gear in question, however, not having RCA for subwoofers would be a deal breaker for me unless I used some kinda adapter. My current subwoofer doesn't utilize XLR. 

Thank you everyone for your inputs. 

I really hope their leadership team reads this post and listens. The unit truly does sound amazing, and when it works correctly, I love it. Unfortunately, the stability, and the fact I understand the behavior of why it is happening, is driving me to the point I am beginning to be regretful and angry every time the simple things mess up. Basic operations like audio sync, switching inputs, decoding audio, etc should be table stakes among any company in this game. Especially if you've been doing it a decade. It is extremely disappointing because I want to recommend you reconsider because it is so awesome when it works. But, I currently cannot.

My experience as an owner of the XMC-1 for five years and now as an owner of the XMC-2 has been different than some here. My XMC-1 was rock solid. My XMC-2 has been less so, but for the most part, solid. In the time that I've owned it, I've had to use the rear power switch once due to a "stuck" firmware update. Problem was corrected flipping the switch.

Currently my only issue is audio sync and I'm managing it without rebooting. This is using Directv. Yes, I agree that this needs to be fixed and I should not have to flip channels or button press between preset 1 and 2 on the remote to gain sync. I am hopeful that it will be via firmware update. In the meantime it has not stopped me from enjoying this unit.

Of course I also want Dirac which is coming.

No regrets in trading in for the XMC-2.

To caveat all this, my system is fairly simple. I don't use a computer or have a projector. My Samsung 4K tv is late 2015 and plays well with the XMC-2.

I also would only recommend an Emotiva processor to someone who is willing to be patient as the company works through these issues. If you don't, stay away.

[tropicallutefisk]

I have a Marantz 8802a as a pre pro which I purchased mostly because I had such good luck with a previous Marantz pre pro. The positive thing about it is the stability and ease of use. Its perfect in that regard and had to be. My wife is non techie when it comes to AV equipment, and she gets very frustrated and angry if she cannot easily and effortlessly watch TV. Reliability and ease of use is also of utmost importance because I travel for work somewhat routinely and if something goes awry when I am out of town I will hear about it till I get home and fix it. She cares not one bit about sound quality or listening to music through my system. So, given these parameters, I'm quite happy with the Marantz.

Where I fault the Marantz is on sound quality. When used for home theater I am sufficiently pleased. However, for 2 channel, I find it very lacking. It sounds thin and weak. To overcome this, I added a Schiit Freya preamp. It was probably the best $900 spent on my system. I have never heard an Emo prepro, but it sounds like they have amazing sound quality and may even make a separate 2 channel pre amp unnecessary. So I guess it comes down to what is most important to you. The only other prepro I heard and was tempted to try was an Anthem. I steered away only because it lacked a balanced analog input for 2 channel music.

[cawgijoe]

Apr 15, 2020 13:58:42 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Hello, 

I am looking for a pre-pro that utilizes a 3.1 channel system. I spend half my time viewing movies and other half listening to audio in 3.1 channels. XLR is a must. I could buy something along the lines of the Marantz AV8805 but that'll be a lot of channels I won't be utilizing. Was checking in to see what others might think. Budget will be under 4 grand. I don't know if there's a product that offers less channels but utilizes the best "chips" in the flagship models that might save me some cash? Or maybe less channels but better fidelity?  I'm looking for excellent sound in 3.1 channel. The unit needs to have XLR outputs and also RCA outputs for subwoofer. Room correction would be really nice. But most of all I'd like something that properly operates my Sony 65A8G OLED. 

Additional Info: I stream from Amazon Music HD. 

Any suggestions are appreciated! Looking to be edumucated! 

I do have a Sherbourn PT-7030 in mint condition that I'm using in the bedroom that i could be talked out of if interested. My wife thinks the form factor of the unit if too big for the bedroom and wants me to buy a smaller preamp.
I've ignored her so far!

[cwmcobra]

Another vote for the Sherbourn PT-7030. I also own one that will eventually (when I finish my home theater) be replaced by a processor with latest immersive audio capability. I don't use it much, but when I do, it sounds like a gem and I've not had any issues with it. For the price that they can be had for and the intended use stated, you'd be hard pressed to find a better value. And after paying 10-15% of your budget for one, you'd have plenty of cash left over to supplement or upgrade in other areas. I'd think seriously about talking cawgijoe out of his!!

My $0.02...

Enjoy the never ending path to audio nirvana!

[405x5]

Apr 15, 2020 23:35:44 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Apr 15, 2020 20:09:50 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I gotta say, while the XMC-1 is a super duper deal and a steal, using the stated budget would be useful for a surprisingly improved sound quality for the LCR with the XMC-2, and still have money left over.

Thanks, looked at the XMC 2 and even RMC1 but I don't see unbalanced RCA outputs for subwoofers? 

I'm also leaning away from Emotiva pre-pro after tonight. Up until this point I had little ideal about the Emotiva pre-pros but it seems that they are buggy. I also note by reviewers they seemingly are more gracious or even hopeful of updates but nonetheless in the reviews the equipment is buggy. 

I'm looking for a little more reliability and ease of use than I think the Emotiva pre-pros may offer. This won't be an immediate purchase so I'll keep eyes open and observe what's going on from this point forward concerning the gear in question, however, not having RCA for subwoofers would be a deal breaker for me unless I used some kinda adapter. My current subwoofer doesn't utilize XLR. 

Thank you everyone for your inputs. 

I’ll tell you what....after 5 1/2 years of rock solid running with the XMC1, my biggest problem With it, has been the naysayers on the web, and who are relentlessly beating up on the thing.

Bill

[klinemj]

Apr 15, 2020 23:35:44 GMT -5 @shimei said:

Apr 15, 2020 20:09:50 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I gotta say, while the XMC-1 is a super duper deal and a steal, using the stated budget would be useful for a surprisingly improved sound quality for the LCR with the XMC-2, and still have money left over.

Thanks, looked at the XMC 2 and even RMC1 but I don't see unbalanced RCA outputs for subwoofers? 

I'm also leaning away from Emotiva pre-pro after tonight. Up until this point I had little ideal about the Emotiva pre-pros but it seems that they are buggy. I also note by reviewers they seemingly are more gracious or even hopeful of updates but nonetheless in the reviews the equipment is buggy. 

I'm looking for a little more reliability and ease of use than I think the Emotiva pre-pros may offer. This won't be an immediate purchase so I'll keep eyes open and observe what's going on from this point forward concerning the gear in question, however, not having RCA for subwoofers would be a deal breaker for me unless I used some kinda adapter. My current subwoofer doesn't utilize XLR. 

Thank you everyone for your inputs. 

The new processors have had their share of issues, but the XMC-1 was very stable prior to 4K. I've not read the latest on how it is with the 4K board, but I have the original XMC-1 and it's outstanding with audio and very stable. If you want/need 4K, you could get a refurb. And, if you find the HDMI inputs and 4K are not stable with your TV/video...you could bypass the XMC-1 for video. All you lose is the onscreen display and I find that - other than for setup procedures - I don't use that anyway.

Mark

[klinemj]

Apr 16, 2020 4:50:39 GMT -5 boomzilla said:

Apr 15, 2020 17:22:57 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I agree on the refurb XMC-1, but a question...3.1 music...why? I can understand 3.1 for video and clear dialog in center channel, but I don't get 3.1 audio. (Not dissing you...just don't get it.) Mark

There is precedent. Paul W. Klipsch did research based on Bell Telephone Labs work that showed that a three-loudspeaker array (front left - center - and right) were the minimum required (in a theater setting) to fool audiences into thinking that they were hearing live performances rather than reproduced ones. The experiment was done using a live orchestra behind a theater curtain playing in one city with a high-quality telephone link to another city. In the receiving city, different numbers of loudspeakers were set up behind the curtain of a similar theater. The audience had to vote on the question of whether the music they were hearing was live or reproduced. The experiment showed that if three or more loudspeakers were used behind the curtain, the audience could not reliably tell whether they were hearing live or reproduced music.

Klipsch consequentially recommended three-speaker arrays for home use, claiming that the experience would provide a more lifelike playback experience. Klipsch also designed two "mixing matrices" to derive a center channel from stereo right and left content. One of the matrices was intended to operate passively, at the loudspeaker end of the system. The center channel, however, had to provide the exact same efficiency as the right and left loudspeakers. The "Belle Klipsch" model was intended to be the center channel with a pair of Klipschorn loudspeakers as left and right. Realizing, however, that not all living rooms would accommodate three very large speakers, Klipsch also provided a "line level" matrix network intended to feed a third power amplifier with its own gain settings. This allowed the "Heresy" speaker to be used as a center channel with any of the other Klipsch models.

The Bell Labs experiment has never been duplicated and has never been disproved. So yes, a three speaker array DOES actually work (and work well) for stereo sources.

I've heard of that work, but how would 3.1 from a stereo source be done with a modern processor - like the XMC-1 or other? (I'd like to try it)

Mark