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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 16, 2020 8:05:56 GMT -5
HI klinemj - Unless I'm mistaken, I think you can force the processor to use all channels even from a stereo signal. I'm not familiar with the Emotiva processors, but I remember being able to do it with my Yamaha AVR. The fly in the ointment is that if your center channel doesn't match your front R & L speakers almost perfectly, you'll hear the center as discreet from the other two speakers and won't have a "blended soundstage" across the front. The ideal setup is to have three identical front speakers. I'll also warn you that when I tried it, it took a day or two for my ears to acclimatize to the new presentation. But once my brain "clicked" to the new presentation, I found it quite pleasant.
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 16, 2020 10:00:47 GMT -5
1955 at least.....3 channel soundstage is nothing new at all. The rendering or how you actually hear it varies greatly with recordings. The XMC is the best unit I’ve ever heard for playing with up front 3 channel rendering. Those differences in non standardized stereo recordings end up rendering themselves uniquely different when played back in various processing modes. DTS has become my overall favorite.
Bill
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 16, 2020 12:17:42 GMT -5
1955 at least.....3 channel soundstage is nothing new at all. The rendering or how you actually hear it varies greatly with recordings. The XMC is the best unit I’ve ever heard for playing with up front 3 channel rendering. Those differences in non standardized stereo recordings end up rendering themselves uniquely different when played back in various processing modes. DTS has become my overall favorite. Bill Bill - I take it you have done it then w/the XMC. Do you use the all channels approach Boomzilla refers to for 3.1 with the XMC-1 or some other setting? And, thanks Boom for the info. Mark
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 12:31:44 GMT -5
Thanks, looked at the XMC 2 and even RMC1 but I don't see unbalanced RCA outputs for subwoofers? I'm also leaning away from Emotiva pre-pro after tonight. Up until this point I had little ideal about the Emotiva pre-pros but it seems that they are buggy. I also note by reviewers they seemingly are more gracious or even hopeful of updates but nonetheless in the reviews the equipment is buggy. I'm looking for a little more reliability and ease of use than I think the Emotiva pre-pros may offer. This won't be an immediate purchase so I'll keep eyes open and observe what's going on from this point forward concerning the gear in question, however, not having RCA for subwoofers would be a deal breaker for me unless I used some kinda adapter. My current subwoofer doesn't utilize XLR. Thank you everyone for your inputs. I really hope their leadership team reads this post and listens. The unit truly does sound amazing, and when it works correctly, I love it. Unfortunately, the stability, and the fact I understand the behavior of why it is happening, is driving me to the point I am beginning to be regretful and angry every time the simple things mess up. Basic operations like audio sync, switching inputs, decoding audio, etc should be table stakes among any company in this game. Especially if you've been doing it a decade. It is extremely disappointing because I want to recommend you reconsider because it is so awesome when it works. But, I currently cannot. I have noted you expressing your frustration. I prefer software as much as hardware to be as transparent as possible as to not lift my focus from the task or what I am doing. I prefer things to run in the background as transparently as possible. I've been through computer tweaks decades ago with various cooling mods etc while overclocking the processors etc. That's when I actually liked working with hardware but as I shifted to software I wanted stable hardware. I've worked with buggy software as a web developer too many times and it can be quite frustrating. I've also noted some requesting the code from Emotiva and there being concern for intellectual property. In the past I've seen software companies that refused to offer "developer licenses" etc go under. The software remained buggy whereas the competition's software became developed by 3rd party developers. Mucho additions, mods, apps, etc became available in the software marketplaces for the product etc. I don't know enough about Emotiva Pre-pros but these are just some of the things or familiarity to past software companies that I'm noting. I doubt any product is going to make me happy if my blood pressure rises for 5 to 10 minutes before I try to use it every time. The product probably wouldn't sound good to me because of the ringing in my ears anyways due to increased blood pressure j/king. As is right now I'm in information gathering mode. Realistically, it'll probably be around this year's Cyber Sales etc when I make a purchase. Once again, thanks to everyone that has participated in this thread and offered advice. And closer to purchasing I'll shoot up a list I'm considering. Hopefully, if a bad decision is about to be made the community may help me avoid that.
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Post by cwt on Apr 16, 2020 14:14:53 GMT -5
I've heard of that work, but how would 3.1 from a stereo source be done with a modern processor - like the XMC-1 or other? (I'd like to try it) Mark Rather than Klipsch's matrix solution Boomzilla described for the center channel Mark you could substitute the much more up to date PL2 matrix algorithm of the XMC1 ; or even Neo6 at a pinch
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Post by megash0n on Apr 16, 2020 16:39:42 GMT -5
I really hope their leadership team reads this post and listens. The unit truly does sound amazing, and when it works correctly, I love it. Unfortunately, the stability, and the fact I understand the behavior of why it is happening, is driving me to the point I am beginning to be regretful and angry every time the simple things mess up. Basic operations like audio sync, switching inputs, decoding audio, etc should be table stakes among any company in this game. Especially if you've been doing it a decade. It is extremely disappointing because I want to recommend you reconsider because it is so awesome when it works. But, I currently cannot. I have noted you expressing your frustration. I prefer software as much as hardware to be as transparent as possible as to not lift my focus from the task or what I am doing. I prefer things to run in the background as transparently as possible. I've been through computer tweaks decades ago with various cooling mods etc while overclocking the processors etc. That's when I actually liked working with hardware but as I shifted to software I wanted stable hardware. I've worked with buggy software as a web developer too many times and it can be quite frustrating. I've also noted some requesting the code from Emotiva and there being concern for intellectual property. In the past I've seen software companies that refused to offer "developer licenses" etc go under. The software remained buggy whereas the competition's software became developed by 3rd party developers. Mucho additions, mods, apps, etc became available in the software marketplaces for the product etc. I don't know enough about Emotiva Pre-pros but these are just some of the things or familiarity to past software companies that I'm noting. I doubt any product is going to make me happy if my blood pressure rises for 5 to 10 minutes before I try to use it every time. The product probably wouldn't sound good to me because of the ringing in my ears anyways due to increased blood pressure j/king. As is right now I'm in information gathering mode. Realistically, it'll probably be around this year's Cyber Sales etc when I make a purchase. Once again, thanks to everyone that has participated in this thread and offered advice. And closer to purchasing I'll shoot up a list I'm considering. Hopefully, if a bad decision is about to be made the community may help me avoid that. If we had rock solid stability, even through firmware releases, I couldn't be happier with my purchase. I would trade Dirac for another year to have pristine stability. The processor sounds incredible. As you said though.. When I'm screaming at 930 PM because I have to shut it all down a few times to get the processor working correctly again, and to get the NIC back online, it makes it hard to calm down enough to fall asleep. 😉
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 16, 2020 17:21:03 GMT -5
I have noted you expressing your frustration. I prefer software as much as hardware to be as transparent as possible as to not lift my focus from the task or what I am doing. I prefer things to run in the background as transparently as possible. I've been through computer tweaks decades ago with various cooling mods etc while overclocking the processors etc. That's when I actually liked working with hardware but as I shifted to software I wanted stable hardware. I've worked with buggy software as a web developer too many times and it can be quite frustrating. I've also noted some requesting the code from Emotiva and there being concern for intellectual property. In the past I've seen software companies that refused to offer "developer licenses" etc go under. The software remained buggy whereas the competition's software became developed by 3rd party developers. Mucho additions, mods, apps, etc became available in the software marketplaces for the product etc. I don't know enough about Emotiva Pre-pros but these are just some of the things or familiarity to past software companies that I'm noting. I doubt any product is going to make me happy if my blood pressure rises for 5 to 10 minutes before I try to use it every time. The product probably wouldn't sound good to me because of the ringing in my ears anyways due to increased blood pressure j/king. As is right now I'm in information gathering mode. Realistically, it'll probably be around this year's Cyber Sales etc when I make a purchase. Once again, thanks to everyone that has participated in this thread and offered advice. And closer to purchasing I'll shoot up a list I'm considering. Hopefully, if a bad decision is about to be made the community may help me avoid that. If we had rock solid stability, even through firmware releases, I couldn't be happier with my purchase. I would trade Dirac for another year to have pristine stability. The processor sounds incredible. As you said though.. When I'm screaming at 930 PM because I have to shut it all down a few times to get the processor working correctly again, and to get the NIC back online, it makes it hard to calm down enough to fall asleep. 😉 Note: Many of us here recommending an XMC are recommending an XMC-1. Very, very stable and sounds great. Mark
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Post by junchoon on Apr 16, 2020 20:28:41 GMT -5
Why not 3.1? Looks like u have never heard NKC’s SACDs Give them a try, especially Love Is The Thing If that's the only reason, it seems like a very rare source material to base a system decision on. Mark Hi Mark NKC is just an example, there are plenty of other titles. Yes, the MCH LITT is indeed hard to find. Thanks
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Post by cwt on Apr 18, 2020 6:55:20 GMT -5
I'm curious after reading reviews on the McIntosh MX121 Pre-Pro which seemingly is based on a lot of components from the Marantz AV7005 [part of D&M Holdings a Japanese company]. This is exactly the kinda thing I'm looking at as I suspect the most desired "chips" are used in top gear and well I'm wondering whether those particular chips are offered in lower end gear [to save money] without all the added channels beyond 3.1 channels? In other words the Marantz AV7005 begins to spark interest. Note, the reason I'm interested in replacing my Onkyo Pr-Rz5100 besides added fidelity is for room correction. But I note in the McIntosh review the reviewer turned off the EQ room correction commenting that they seldom sound better. Of course, that defeats the main thrust to upgrade. www.soundandvision.com/content/dreaming-not-impossible-dreamI guess I'm interested in knowing the best chips/processors of top tier gear and whether those components are offered in the 4 grand and under price range? Anecdotally most Marantz owners prefer the 8805 over the 7705 due to its completely revised upgraded componentry Shimei. The 7005 being a generation older is encumbered with only hdmi1.4 and only uses audyssey multi xt let alone audyssey xt32[ as unfortunately does the Mcintosh ] rather than the dirac of an XMC1 .. Your theory on quality of chips in lower price components holds a lot of water with Emo . The main processing dsp board is shared between the RMC1;1L and XMC2 :)One factor in economy of scale keeping costs down. Of course leaving aside channels of processing The XMC's are still in stark contrast to Mcintosh price wise Another factor is resale value which wont be good with the Mcintosh imho The XMC1 had a very long gestation and its a fluke of hindsight that Emo didnt happen to upgrade the chassis[ there were plans] rather than develop a new object audio line . Or there would be a very short supply no doubt ..
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 18, 2020 9:27:11 GMT -5
I'm curious after reading reviews on the McIntosh MX121 Pre-Pro which seemingly is based on a lot of components from the Marantz AV7005 [part of D&M Holdings a Japanese company]. This is exactly the kinda thing I'm looking at as I suspect the most desired "chips" are used in top gear and well I'm wondering whether those particular chips are offered in lower end gear [to save money] without all the added channels beyond 3.1 channels? In other words the Marantz AV7005 begins to spark interest. Note, the reason I'm interested in replacing my Onkyo Pr-Rz5100 besides added fidelity is for room correction. But I note in the McIntosh review the reviewer turned off the EQ room correction commenting that they seldom sound better. Of course, that defeats the main thrust to upgrade. www.soundandvision.com/content/dreaming-not-impossible-dreamI guess I'm interested in knowing the best chips/processors of top tier gear and whether those components are offered in the 4 grand and under price range? Anecdotally most Marantz owners prefer the 8805 over the 7705 due to its completely revised upgraded componentry Shimei. The 7005 being a generation older is encumbered with only hdmi1.4 and only uses audyssey multi xt let alone audyssey xt32[ as unfortunately does the Mcintosh ] rather than the dirac of an XMC1 .. Your theory on quality of chips in lower price components holds a lot of water with Emo . The main processing dsp board is shared between the RMC1;1L and XMC2 :)One factor in economy of scale keeping costs down. Of course leaving aside channels of processing The XMC's are still in stark contrast to Mcintosh price wise Another factor is resale value which wont be good with the Mcintosh imho The XMC1 had a very long gestation and its a fluke of hindsight that Emo didnt happen to upgrade the chassis[ there were plans] rather than develop a new object audio line . Or there would be a very short supply no doubt .. I never forget the words of Dan Laufman himself, (years ago now) making it clear at that time that Dolby Atmos was in its “infant stages” and that the XMC1 was never intended to be an Atmos processor. Of course it’s one thing to have a modular, upgradable NON ATMOS processor as opposed to the latter. Entirely different architecture....as different as Science Fiction, so to speak. So EMOTIVA has gone on to be the ultimate place to obtain an Atmos processor, with the XMC being somewhat abandoned, though one should be able to keep it going for quite some time to come. Bill
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 11:57:41 GMT -5
If we had rock solid stability, even through firmware releases, I couldn't be happier with my purchase. I would trade Dirac for another year to have pristine stability. The processor sounds incredible. As you said though.. When I'm screaming at 930 PM because I have to shut it all down a few times to get the processor working correctly again, and to get the NIC back online, it makes it hard to calm down enough to fall asleep. 😉 Note: Many of us here recommending an XMC are recommending an XMC-1. Very, very stable and sounds great. Mark Thank you, Mark, I can't help but notice this as a pattern of repetitive behavior conveyed by members. Seemingly, Emotiva has a great reputation [built in the past] and credibility many on this board continually point to. Since I am not a user of Emotiva's "older" technology from Emotiva's Class A amps [on which Emotiva built credibility] to XMC 1 rather than 2 or RMC XPA Gen 3 or DR etc I am nobody to challenge the historicity or alter past perception. I can only observe the talk of the lack of stability, Dirac, Class D etc appearing as nothing more than "hopeful development" and marketing on that technology . I'm stopping here because while writing realize there's little chance of me purchasing an Emotiva product now. While the Emotiva company enjoys credibility [not disputing] - at the moment the product line doesn't appeal for me to lend any more.
And to note, I first began taking issue with Emotiva products when learning "made in America" doesn't necessarily mean what I ignorantly assumed. This disappointment was only compounded in a somewhat unrelated area ~ this board and the board's moderation/censorship. By no means do I wish to push the envelope in communicating my frustration in uncivil ways or for that matter in civil discussion after having threads locked and posts deleted. To me various threads in the green room etc are in some ways related, that is, the political, especially when parts are sourced from undesirable locations and the board takes upon the censorship I'd expect if living there.
Having said that I respectfully yield back while thanking everyone that has made my time here a pleasant one.
If anyone wishes to respond to me personally please all means message but I am withdrawing from the community board and wish to refrain from public posting.
Enjoy, William
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 18, 2020 12:59:46 GMT -5
Note: Many of us here recommending an XMC are recommending an XMC-1. Very, very stable and sounds great. Mark Thank you, Mark, I can't help but notice this as a pattern of repetitive behavior conveyed by members. Seemingly, Emotiva has a great reputation [built in the past] and credibility many on this board continually point to. Since I am not a user of Emotiva's "older" technology from Emotiva's Class A amps [on which Emotiva built credibility] to XMC 1 rather than 2 or RMC XPA Gen 3 or DR etc I am nobody to challenge the historicity or alter past perception. I can only observe the talk of the lack of stability, Dirac, Class D etc appearing as nothing more than "hopeful development" and marketing on that technology . I'm stopping here because while writing realize there's little chance of me purchasing an Emotiva product now. While the Emotiva company enjoys credibility [not disputing] - at the moment the product line doesn't appeal for me to lend any more.
And to note, I first began taking issue with Emotiva products when learning "made in America" doesn't necessarily mean what I ignorantly assumed. This disappointment was only compounded in a somewhat unrelated area ~ this board and the board's moderation/censorship. By no means do I wish to push the envelope in communicating my frustration in uncivil ways or for that matter in civil discussion after having threads locked and posts deleted. To me various threads in the green room etc are in some ways related, that is, the political, especially when parts are sourced from undesirable locations and the board takes upon the censorship I'd expect if living there.
Having said that I respectfully yield back while thanking everyone that has made my time here a pleasant one.
If anyone wishes to respond to me personally please all means message but I am withdrawing from the community board and wish to refrain from public posting.
Enjoy, William
We all have to make our own calls as to whether we stay or leave a forum or brand. That said - regarding the XMC-1 and older products vs. the new ones...my experience has been that the processors tend to be most finicky when newer and they eventually get the FW under control. The UMC-1 was an initial disaster, and I waited until it was "tamed" to buy one...it was great then for what it was. The XMC-1 had a lot of initial problems, and again - I waited. It's been great. The RMC-1/RMC-1L/XMC-2 are taking a long trajectory - but will likely end up the same...fine and stable. At that point, I'll likely get an XMC-2. Regarding "made in America", I think they've been pretty transparent on what is and is not made here. When I look broadly across multiple industries, there are very few products which are 100% made in America. Check out the % US content in various automobiles...some "American" brands/models have more foreign content than "non-American" brands. Still, your call on what forums you follow and what products you buy. Mark (PS - I don't understand your Class D comment. They make a Class D amp, and those who own them seem very happy. The PA-1 seems like a great amp...I've love to see them make a multi-channel version for Atmos systems.)
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Post by megash0n on Apr 18, 2020 13:08:44 GMT -5
Thank you, Mark, I can't help but notice this as a pattern of repetitive behavior conveyed by members. Seemingly, Emotiva has a great reputation [built in the past] and credibility many on this board continually point to. Since I am not a user of Emotiva's "older" technology from Emotiva's Class A amps [on which Emotiva built credibility] to XMC 1 rather than 2 or RMC XPA Gen 3 or DR etc I am nobody to challenge the historicity or alter past perception. I can only observe the talk of the lack of stability, Dirac, Class D etc appearing as nothing more than "hopeful development" and marketing on that technology . I'm stopping here because while writing realize there's little chance of me purchasing an Emotiva product now. While the Emotiva company enjoys credibility [not disputing] - at the moment the product line doesn't appeal for me to lend any more.
And to note, I first began taking issue with Emotiva products when learning "made in America" doesn't necessarily mean what I ignorantly assumed. This disappointment was only compounded in a somewhat unrelated area ~ this board and the board's moderation/censorship. By no means do I wish to push the envelope in communicating my frustration in uncivil ways or for that matter in civil discussion after having threads locked and posts deleted. To me various threads in the green room etc are in some ways related, that is, the political, especially when parts are sourced from undesirable locations and the board takes upon the censorship I'd expect if living there.
Having said that I respectfully yield back while thanking everyone that has made my time here a pleasant one.
If anyone wishes to respond to me personally please all means message but I am withdrawing from the community board and wish to refrain from public posting.
Enjoy, William
We all have to make our own calls as to whether we stay or leave a forum or brand. That said - regarding the XMC-1 and older products vs. the new ones...my experience has been that the processors tend to be most finicky when newer and they eventually get the FW under control. The UMC-1 was an initial disaster, and I waited until it was "tamed" to buy one...it was great then for what it was. The XMC-1 had a lot of initial problems, and again - I waited. It's been great. The RMC-1/RMC-1L/XMC-2 are taking a long trajectory - but will likely end up the same...fine and stable. At that point, I'll likely get an XMC-2. Regarding "made in America", I think they've been pretty transparent on what is and is not made here. When I look broadly across multiple industries, there are very few products which are 100% made in America. Check out the % US content in various automobiles...some "American" brands/models have more foreign content than "non-American" brands. Still, your call on what forums you follow and what products you buy. Mark (PS - I don't understand your Class D comment. They make a Class D amp, and those who own them seem very happy. The PA-1 seems like a great amp...I've love to see them make a multi-channel version for Atmos systems.) I think something that gets missed when discussing stability is that the 3 product lines you speak of all took roughly 3 years, after market delivery, to stabilize enough to claim stability. The new platform is halfway there and hasn't delivered on much on initial promises. I don't say this to be condemning. I just want to point out the consistency.
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Post by sahmen on Apr 18, 2020 15:01:16 GMT -5
If this rig is going to be dedicated to music listening, then what happened to the 2-channel reference stereo option? I have nothing against listening to music in 3-channel or multichannel mode, as those have their uses, but for music, I personally wouldn't ever exclude a 2-channel reference stereo option, as in my opinion, nothing can beat it, if set up right. And talking about setting it up right, I think 4 grand can go a long way. toward accomplishing just that, especially if you include an a**-Kicking DAC in the budget. I personally would even consider that DAC to be of the utmost importance since it would be the boss in charge for 2-channel reference stereo listening.
When it comes to the pre pro required for such a configuration, I think either the XMC-1 or the Sherbourn PT 7030 would do a pretty great job in covering any 3.1 or multi-channel music listening needs, and since both can be had for $1000 or less (actually far less for the PT 7030), that would leave plenty of Mullah left for the Kick-a** DAC for 2-channel reference stereo when needed. I know I would need that most of the time, if it were me setting up such a system, but mileages may vary, as they always do. By the way, I have had the XMC-1 for almost 5-years (until I swapped it recently for an XMC-2), and a PT 7030 for a little longer, and I wouldn't count them among any Emo pre pros with a buggy record, as they have both been "A" calibre rock-solid in flawless, glitchless, performance
My 0.2 cents
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 18, 2020 15:21:39 GMT -5
If this rig is going to be dedicated to music listening, then what happened to the 2-channel reference stereo option? I have nothing against listening to music in 3-channel or multichannel mode, as those have their uses, but for music, I personally wouldn't ever exclude a 2-channel reference stereo option, as in my opinion, nothing can beat it, if set up right. And talking about setting it up right, I think 4 grand can go a long way. toward accomplishing just that, especially if you include an a**-Kicking DAC in the budget. I personally would even consider that DAC to be of the utmost importance since it would be the boss in charge for 2-channel reference stereo listening. When it comes to the pre pro required for such a configuration, I think either the XMC-1 or the Sherbourn PT 7030 would do a pretty great job in covering any 3.1 or multi-channel music listening needs, and since both can be had for $1000 or less (actually far less for the PT 7030), that would leave plenty of Mullah left for the Kick-a** DAC for 2-channel reference stereo when needed. I know I would need that most of the time, if it were me setting up such a system, but mileages may vary, as they always do. By the way, I have had the XMC-1 for almost 5-years (until I swapped it recently for an XMC-2), and a PT 7030 for a little longer, and I wouldn't count them among any Emo pre pros with a buggy record, as they have both been "A" calibre rock-solid in flawless, glitchless, performance My 0.2 cents Oh well....the OP has bailed out of the forum. Too bad! ( I thought he was a breath of fresh air.) Bill
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Post by audiosyndrome on Apr 18, 2020 15:42:28 GMT -5
If that's the only reason, it seems like a very rare source material to base a system decision on. Mark Hi Mark NKC is just an example, there are plenty of other titles. Yes, the MCH LITT is indeed hard to find. Thanks Probably close to one hundred or more RCA Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence three channel (classical) SACDs. Russ
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Post by creimes on Apr 18, 2020 16:02:57 GMT -5
If this rig is going to be dedicated to music listening, then what happened to the 2-channel reference stereo option? I have nothing against listening to music in 3-channel or multichannel mode, as those have their uses, but for music, I personally wouldn't ever exclude a 2-channel reference stereo option, as in my opinion, nothing can beat it, if set up right. And talking about setting it up right, I think 4 grand can go a long way. toward accomplishing just that, especially if you include an a**-Kicking DAC in the budget. I personally would even consider that DAC to be of the utmost importance since it would be the boss in charge for 2-channel reference stereo listening. When it comes to the pre pro required for such a configuration, I think either the XMC-1 or the Sherbourn PT 7030 would do a pretty great job in covering any 3.1 or multi-channel music listening needs, and since both can be had for $1000 or less (actually far less for the PT 7030), that would leave plenty of Mullah left for the Kick-a** DAC for 2-channel reference stereo when needed. I know I would need that most of the time, if it were me setting up such a system, but mileages may vary, as they always do. By the way, I have had the XMC-1 for almost 5-years (until I swapped it recently for an XMC-2), and a PT 7030 for a little longer, and I wouldn't count them among any Emo pre pros with a buggy record, as they have both been "A" calibre rock-solid in flawless, glitchless, performance My 0.2 cents Oh well....the OP has bailed out of the forum. Too bad! ( I thought he was a breath of fresh air.) Bill Seems to me he owned a few Emotiva amps and wasn't happy and has moved on, I guess there is always going to be something better ?? I wouldn't know myself as my meager income only allows me to spend so much but hey maybe that's a good thing since I'm very happy with how my system sounds and I have no desire for 4K which seems to keep me in a more stable platform from what I can see. To each our own when it comes to this hobby or whatever one calls it Chad
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Post by klinemj on Apr 18, 2020 16:46:13 GMT -5
I think something that gets missed when discussing stability is that the 3 product lines you speak of all took roughly 3 years, after market delivery, to stabilize enough to claim stability. The new platform is halfway there and hasn't delivered on much on initial promises. I don't say this to be condemning. I just want to point out the consistency. Post-launch, the UMC-1 took less than ~6 months to be as stable as it got...that's about when I bought it post-launch. Some people still didn't like it, but it worked perfect for me. The XMC-1 took less time from launch to be stable, but I think I waited a bit longer just due to me being busy. It has worked perfectly for me ever since. The RMC-1/RMC-1L/XMC-2 have taken longest to get stable. For many it is, and for some - it's still not...and none have DIRAC and the RMC-1 still doesn't have the expansion modules. At this point, the only reason I am waiting on the XMC-2 is because it does not have DIRAC yet. My #1 rule is to never buy anything on promises from anyone for something I feel is important. Right now, for me - it's stable enough, but I will wait for DIRAC to be out and stable. Mark
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Post by megash0n on Apr 18, 2020 17:04:36 GMT -5
I think something that gets missed when discussing stability is that the 3 product lines you speak of all took roughly 3 years, after market delivery, to stabilize enough to claim stability. The new platform is halfway there and hasn't delivered on much on initial promises. I don't say this to be condemning. I just want to point out the consistency. Post-launch, the UMC-1 took less than ~6 months to be as stable as it got...that's about when I bought it post-launch. Some people still didn't like it, but it worked perfect for me. The XMC-1 took less time from launch to be stable, but I think I waited a bit longer just due to me being busy. It has worked perfectly for me ever since. The RMC-1/RMC-1L/XMC-2 have taken longest to get stable. For many it is, and for some - it's still not...and none have DIRAC and the RMC-1 still doesn't have the expansion modules. At this point, the only reason I am waiting on the XMC-2 is because it does not have DIRAC yet. My #1 rule is to never buy anything on promises from anyone for something I feel is important. Right now, for me - it's stable enough, but I will wait for DIRAC to be out and stable. Mark That's good advice. I think we all have a different experience at times, which is of some concern. I have read of many owners of the last two platforms quote something closer to 3 years, but this is all just other people's words. It doesn't make it correct. I've wanted to buy the last two platforms, and followed them somewhat thru development. I just always seemed to be in a business startup or otherwise broke at the time to buy. I do hope things get buttoned up so we can move past the issues and long development cycles.
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 18, 2020 18:25:23 GMT -5
Post-launch, the UMC-1 took less than ~6 months to be as stable as it got...that's about when I bought it post-launch. Some people still didn't like it, but it worked perfect for me. The XMC-1 took less time from launch to be stable, but I think I waited a bit longer just due to me being busy. It has worked perfectly for me ever since. The RMC-1/RMC-1L/XMC-2 have taken longest to get stable. For many it is, and for some - it's still not...and none have DIRAC and the RMC-1 still doesn't have the expansion modules. At this point, the only reason I am waiting on the XMC-2 is because it does not have DIRAC yet. My #1 rule is to never buy anything on promises from anyone for something I feel is important. Right now, for me - it's stable enough, but I will wait for DIRAC to be out and stable. Mark That's good advice. I think we all have a different experience at times, which is of some concern. I have read of many owners of the last two platforms quote something closer to 3 years, but this is all just other people's words. It doesn't make it correct. I've wanted to buy the last two platforms, and followed them somewhat thru development. I just always seemed to be in a business startup or otherwise broke at the time to buy. I do hope things get buttoned up so we can move past the issues and long development cycles. This thread has taken a turn that takes me back to thoughts of audio nirvana, when most of us aspired towards achieving the most life like audio reproduction in the home. That has long now taken a back seat in lieu of waiting for all the newest gear to be able to talk to each other. That will be the new nirvana, if they can EVER pull it off. Bill
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