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Post by miata57 on May 17, 2020 17:29:32 GMT -5
Hello all,
I decided on purchasing the S12 subwoofer to use with my Magnepan .7s. I am now wondering if I missed out on a better buy, going with the S15 for just a $100 US more. I thought the transient response might be better with the 12".
I don't want my stereo system to sound like a home theater setup with too much bass, although this should be adjustable..
What do you guys think?
Much appreciated
Howie
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Post by jackfish on May 17, 2020 19:01:47 GMT -5
You’re fine with the way you went.
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Post by garbulky on May 17, 2020 19:38:35 GMT -5
I have heard the S15 and they are really good. In my opinion if you can get two of any subwoofer, the s12 or the s15 you'd be doing a lot better than if you didn't. Also getting a massive sub is not going to make your system sound like a system with too much bass. It is a misonomer that the size of the cone is going to give you less tight tuneful bass.
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S12 vs S15
May 18, 2020 10:08:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by MusicHead on May 18, 2020 10:08:07 GMT -5
At the lowered price the S15 is a tremendous value (if you can accommodate its physical size).
I haven't heard either, however, on paper, the difference in spec will not have much weight on music listening.
24Hz vs 20Hz in minimum frequency extension and 500W vs 650W are not going to be audible in most cases.
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Post by boomzilla on May 19, 2020 11:36:28 GMT -5
The Airmotiv S-15 has its limitations... 1. The 15" cone and passive radiator both have a LOT of mass. To get them to stop vibrating after they start takes time. They'll sound muddy on the floor. To get mine even close to "not muddy," I had to put them up on stands and get them away from the walls. 2. I tried to put mine in a corner with the passive radiators facing the corner (thought the corner would act like a horn & give me greater output). When I ran the sweep, I found that the already rough response had become the rocky mountains! So I had to turn them around with the passive radiators facing the listening position. Even then, they aren't anywhere near flat (even with DSP correction). 3. The darned things are HUGE (I'm talking mother-in-law sized) and HEAVY. Even with good lifting technique (bend at the knees, never the back), they're still dangerous for one person to move. Unless you're big, strong, and stupid (I used to be...), get some help moving these. 4. The 15s DO (not even a question) go down solidly to 20 Hz. They do it up on stands away from the walls. They do it on the floor. They do it in the corners. Kinda' like mutts in heat, they just don't care about location. Give them an organ pedal tone and they'll shudder. Touch up the 20 Hz. range with a +3 dB boost from the DSP and they'll rearrange your diaphragm (and you'll definitely find out what in your house rattles at that frequency - LOTS of stuff does...). 5. The intermittent popping of the plate amps on my S-15s has declined but not disappeared over time. YMMV. 6. If I had it to do over again... This is a tough one. The S-15s do have some advantages (especially if you're primarily using them for home theater). But their ragged frequency response and rigid positioning requirements are MAJOR negatives. I think that were I doing this again, I'd opt for smaller and quicker subs, and maybe more of them. But that preference isn't enough to make me sell my S-15s (at least not yet). That's all, folks! |
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Post by jackfish on May 19, 2020 22:49:26 GMT -5
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Post by tropicallutefisk on May 20, 2020 6:31:03 GMT -5
I have had Maggies for 17 years. My first were a pair of 1.6s and my latest are 3.7is. Previously I had M&K and Deftech subs in my system. The M&K was a beast with dual 12" woofers and was awesome for movies. The deftech was dual 8" and quite good as well. However, they both were terrible pairings with my 1.6s and they were only used for movies. They made the maggies sound bloated and muddy. There was more bass but they didn't allow the nice tight bass of the Maggies to shine. A few years back I auditioned a JL Audio 10" sub and was very impressed. It was the first sub I found that blended well with my speakers. So I guess what I am getting at is that size isn't the be all, end all and as long as you are happy with the sound you should not have buyers remorse.
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Post by boomzilla on May 20, 2020 9:23:25 GMT -5
The Airmotiv S-15s would be a particularly bad choice for use with Magnepans.
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Post by MusicHead on May 22, 2020 7:09:30 GMT -5
I have owned the L12 for a few years and could not be happier. However, the OP seems to have already purchased the S12, so I guess our preferences are a moot point 🙂. |
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Post by pedrocols on May 22, 2020 7:44:29 GMT -5
I have owned the L12 for a few years and could not be happier. However, the OP seems to have already purchased the S12, so I guess our preferences are a moot point 🙂. I am seriously considering the L12. My current subwoofer gets the job done so far with my 1.7s but is like 20 years old. |
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Post by MusicHead on May 23, 2020 8:38:49 GMT -5
I have owned the L12 for a few years and could not be happier. However, the OP seems to have already purchased the S12, so I guess our preferences are a moot point 🙂. I am seriously considering the L12. My current subwoofer gets the job done so far with my 1.7s but is like 20 years old. My personal opinion is that any well executed 12" sealed sub is the ideal trade off for a music system. Better yet, two of them 🙂. Not for quantity, but to smooth the in-room response. Plus, with two sealed subs, if you want you can also get that extra muscles for movies. My single L12 works perfectly in my 17x13 room. I always keep it set for maximum extension and if I really feel the need for more rumble, I just bump up 2-3dB the sub trim in my Fusion 8100 when watching movies. I bet that the S12 is very close in performance, although with the passive radiator it is obviously a different design philosophy. It probably has even higher output. Anyone else wants to chime in about the S12 vs S15? We have taken a little detour, time to come back to the original topic! |
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Post by 405x5 on May 23, 2020 11:10:02 GMT -5
Hello all, I decided on purchasing the S12 subwoofer to use with my Magnepan .7s. I am now wondering if I missed out on a better buy, going with the S15 for just a $100 US more. I thought the transient response might be better with the 12". I don't want my stereo system to sound like a home theater setup with too much bass, although this should be adjustable.. What do you guys think? Much appreciated Howie I would have gone with the 15......but this time of year, that MIATA is the real ticket!  |
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Post by boomzilla on May 23, 2020 12:53:11 GMT -5
...I bet that the S12 is very close in performance, although with the passive radiator it is obviously a different design philosophy. It probably has even higher output... Higher output, yes. Cleaner output, maybe, maybe not. Passive radiators, by design create massive phase problems, They're also typically heavy, and have energy storage problems (meaning that when the audio signal stops, the passive radiator keeps vibrating). The cleanest subwoofer I've heard is a sealed box with two 10" drivers. The drivers are relatively light, and don't store much energy. They can stop (and go) on a dime and sound very "fast." The sealed box is designed in such a way that the drivers extend deeply into the bass, and because of their light mass, good control, and high power-handling, can easily extend into the midrange. A crossover is mandatory with such designs, and the owner uses 100 Hz. with the subs rolled of at 18dB/octave and the satellites at 6dB/octave. The blend is perfect, and one can't tell where the transition occurs even if you're listening for it. But my choice is made, and I'll make the best of it. I'm currently crossing over my Airmotiv S-15s at 50 Hz. and running the satellites full range. |
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Post by pedrocols on May 23, 2020 16:18:17 GMT -5
I am seriously considering the L12. My current subwoofer gets the job done so far with my 1.7s but is like 20 years old. My personal opinion is that any well executed 12" sealed sub is the ideal trade off for a music system. Better yet, two of them 🙂. Not for quantity, but to smooth the in-room response. Plus, with two sealed subs, if you want you can also get that extra muscles for movies. My single L12 works perfectly in my 17x13 room. I always keep it set for maximum extension and if I really feel the need for more rumble, I just bump up 2-3dB the sub trim in my Fusion 8100 when watching movies. I bet that the S12 is very close in performance, although with the passive radiator it is obviously a different design philosophy. It probably has even higher output. Anyone else wants to chime in about the S12 vs S15? We have taken a little detour, time to come back to the original topic! I think it would be great if Emotiva stick with line of subwoofers and continue to improve upon instead of coming out with the flavor of the month every now and then. |
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Post by MusicHead on May 23, 2020 20:13:28 GMT -5
...I bet that the S12 is very close in performance, although with the passive radiator it is obviously a different design philosophy. It probably has even higher output... Higher output, yes. Cleaner output, maybe, maybe not. Passive radiators, by design create massive phase problems, They're also typically heavy, and have energy storage problems (meaning that when the audio signal stops, the passive radiator keeps vibrating). The cleanest subwoofer I've heard is a sealed box with two 10" drivers. The drivers are relatively light, and don't store much energy. They can stop (and go) on a dime and sound very "fast." The sealed box is designed in such a way that the drivers extend deeply into the bass, and because of their light mass, good control, and high power-handling, can easily extend into the midrange. A crossover is mandatory with such designs, and the owner uses 100 Hz. with the subs rolled of at 18dB/octave and the satellites at 6dB/octave. The blend is perfect, and one can't tell where the transition occurs even if you're listening for it. But my choice is made, and I'll make the best of it. I'm currently crossing over my Airmotiv S-15s at 50 Hz. and running the satellites full range. Boom, I do not consider myself a speaker expert (although I know a thing or two, I work with analog and power electronics) but I am with you. That is why after a good deal of searching I settled on the L12. It checks all the boxes of my "ideal" sub and it integrates beautifully with my Ascend mains for music in stereo. Of all of the Emotiva subs the RS13 is the one that impresses me the most at engineering level. Going by the specs is a lot of sub for the money, although it does not come cheap. It'd be nice if Emotiva offered a version of the S13 or RS13 in a sealed configuration. Yes, I know, sometime the argument "sealed for music, ported for HT" is taken a little too far. However, there are differences. As always in audio, YMMV. |
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