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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 8, 2022 0:17:50 GMT -5
Do you use “video remains on” or “low power standby”? If “video remains on”, when was your last cold boot? If it has been a while you may want to consider a cold boot, as this is no different than a computer that needs to be rebooted from time to time. I have it set to LPS because VRO locks it up every time. It will simply sit at "no signal" until I put it back to low power mode. It's been cold booted a few times now. Funny though, it has worked fine all day and I've had it powered up and down a few times. Picky little thing. At this point it might be worth a backup, reset and restore. |
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Post by markc on Aug 8, 2022 6:00:51 GMT -5
I find it quite simple. One sub at the front of the room for BM which acts as a low end extension of the mains, one sub at the back of the room which takes care of the LFE track. Makes sense to me, otherwise you are asking each sub to simultaneously output two completely different signals, eg the BM from all speakers plus the LFE track, all completely separately mixed signals out of the same speaker? How could that one speaker accurately output two completely different large wave signals at the same time? This way, I find for music the full range of sound eminates from the one place and sounds more tight, BM sounds fake if it comes from a different place than the main speakers. It also allows me to take advantage of the unique roll offs on the RS13's, the sub at the front used for BM I have set to "Flat", which rolls off at around 30hz, and the one at the rear for LFE I have set to "Deep" which allows for a response flat from 16 Hz up. So music sounds brilliant at the front, and movies or anything with an LFE track sounds thunderous into the couch and vibrates the windows! Funny how only the most expensive processors also allow for this. Tells me EMO were onto something here. Well it works for me anyway. Except those two subs playing different bass signals will add together or cancel out different wavelengths when working together in your room. It is bad enough trying to balance multiple subs when they are all simultaneously outputting the same signal. I would say it is next to impossible when one is LFE and one is redirected bass. |
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Post by markc on Aug 8, 2022 6:06:23 GMT -5
Since the hubbub about a leaking 'holy grail' firmware release I've been checking here very frequently, to avoid I am not missing out. Will Emotiva send a regular email through the standard mailing list to announce the release of this new, major, firmware? This will avoid me checking on a regular basis for something I had expected to be imminent, but looks more like it will become a Christmas present. (and thus save daily disappointment  ). To save you the consistent disappointment of checking this forum (resulting not so much from from the lack of firmware updates but the seeing of nothing but ongoing / new issues with these processors), you can subscribe to the firmware thread so that you get an email notification when Keith posts there or uploads a new firmware link. Then after the new firmware you will need to keep watching this forum for how to get around it's shortcomings (some of which are already known about as they will not be addressed in the next firmware) |
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Post by pbiancardi on Aug 8, 2022 6:36:23 GMT -5
Can't we just get a release date? I keep checking and firmware is never here.
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Post by thezone on Aug 8, 2022 7:22:56 GMT -5
I find it quite simple. One sub at the front of the room for BM which acts as a low end extension of the mains, one sub at the back of the room which takes care of the LFE track. Makes sense to me, otherwise you are asking each sub to simultaneously output two completely different signals, eg the BM from all speakers plus the LFE track, all completely separately mixed signals out of the same speaker? How could that one speaker accurately output two completely different large wave signals at the same time? This way, I find for music the full range of sound eminates from the one place and sounds more tight, BM sounds fake if it comes from a different place than the main speakers. It also allows me to take advantage of the unique roll offs on the RS13's, the sub at the front used for BM I have set to "Flat", which rolls off at around 30hz, and the one at the rear for LFE I have set to "Deep" which allows for a response flat from 16 Hz up. So music sounds brilliant at the front, and movies or anything with an LFE track sounds thunderous into the couch and vibrates the windows! Funny how only the most expensive processors also allow for this. Tells me EMO were onto something here. Well it works for me anyway. Except those two subs playing different bass signals will add together or cancel out different wavelengths when working together in your room. It is bad enough trying to balance multiple subs when they are all simultaneously outputting the same signal. I would say it is next to impossible when one is LFE and one is redirected bass. Sorry, but I don't agree. When music is playing, (BM only) there is no LFE so the rear sub is silent, when movies or anything with an LFE track is playing the two subs are emitting completely different wave forms, mixed from different signal sources, how can they interfere with one another? On a side note I must apologies for going way off topic! |
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Post by thezone on Aug 8, 2022 7:26:22 GMT -5
Can't we just get a release date? I keep checking and firmware is never here. Gives you a chance to check in with the friendly Lounge members and take advantage of the plethora of information available, you never know what you might learn! |
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 8, 2022 7:56:34 GMT -5
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Post by marcl on Aug 8, 2022 8:00:22 GMT -5
Except those two subs playing different bass signals will add together or cancel out different wavelengths when working together in your room. It is bad enough trying to balance multiple subs when they are all simultaneously outputting the same signal. I would say it is next to impossible when one is LFE and one is redirected bass. Sorry, but I don't agree. When music is playing, (BM only) there is no LFE so the rear sub is silent, when movies or anything with an LFE track is playing the two subs are emitting completely different wave forms, mixed from different signal sources, how can they interfere with one another? On a side note I must apologies for going way off topic! Agreed ... BM and LFE are totally separate content. There's also the issue of frequency range and the ability to localize the sound. Though LFE spec says it can go up to 120Hz (and processors roll the LFE channel off 12db/octave above 120Hz), LFE usually has much lower frequency content and often with very high dynamic range, and not so easily localizable. Bass Management content can go up well over 100Hz for small speakers like surrounds and Atmos tops. That bass above 80Hz is more easily localizable and one could argue that it at least should come from the front of the room, if not evenly distributed. A hybrid solution to using two separate subs would be to augment front speakers with a sub driven directly by the L/R front content (i.e. the sub sums the L/R channels from L/R outputs). Cross that sub over at an appropriate frequency to just complement the low end of the front speakers. Then set the fronts to Large, and send BM to the large fronts. Assuming the bass of the front speakers is good down to a lower frequency than the small speakers, you end up with nicely timbre-matched full range bass from all speakers and localized toward the front of the room. And BTW, Dirac will handle any bump in bass where the front speakers and their dedicated sub overlap. A third solution is to use a miniDSP to manage two subs - one front and one rear - balancing their levels and delays so they look like one sub. Then ... feed one input of the miniDSP the LFE-only output of Center Sub, and the other input a combined signal from the L/R fronts. You can put a low pass filter on that input so the L/R signal to the subs is only what is required below the range of the fronts. This combines all the advantages ... You get the more uniform bass for both LFE and BM from having integrated subs front and rear, and you get the well-matched BM for all speakers. |
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 8, 2022 8:21:08 GMT -5
Sorry, but I don't agree. When music is playing, (BM only) there is no LFE so the rear sub is silent, when movies or anything with an LFE track is playing the two subs are emitting completely different wave forms, mixed from different signal sources, how can they interfere with one another? On a side note I must apologies for going way off topic! Agreed ... BM and LFE are totally separate content. There's also the issue of frequency range and the ability to localize the sound. Though LFE spec says it can go up to 120Hz ( and processors roll the LFE channel off 12db/octave above 120Hz), LFE usually has much lower frequency content and often with very high dynamic range, and not so easily localizable. Bass Management content can go up well over 100Hz for small speakers like surrounds and Atmos tops. That bass above 80Hz is more easily localizable and one could argue that it at least should come from the front of the room, if not evenly distributed. A hybrid solution to using two separate subs would be to augment front speakers with a sub driven directly by the L/R front content (i.e. the sub sums the L/R channels from L/R outputs). Cross that sub over at an appropriate frequency to just complement the low end of the front speakers. Then set the fronts to Large, and send BM to the large fronts. Assuming the bass of the front speakers is good down to a lower frequency than the small speakers, you end up with nicely timbre-matched full range bass from all speakers and localized toward the front of the room. And BTW, Dirac will handle any bump in bass where the front speakers and their dedicated sub overlap. A third solution is to use a miniDSP to manage two subs - one front and one rear - balancing their levels and delays so they look like one sub. Then ... feed one input of the miniDSP the LFE-only output of Center Sub, and the other input a combined signal from the L/R fronts. You can put a low pass filter on that input so the L/R signal to the subs is only what is required below the range of the fronts. This combines all the advantages ... You get the more uniform bass for both LFE and BM from having integrated subs front and rear, and you get the well-matched BM for all speakers. Does the RMC roll the LFE channel off 12db/octave above 120Hz? I have noticed that sometimes LFE is separate content, and sometimes it is augmented content. |
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Post by marcl on Aug 8, 2022 8:23:28 GMT -5
Agreed ... BM and LFE are totally separate content. There's also the issue of frequency range and the ability to localize the sound. Though LFE spec says it can go up to 120Hz ( and processors roll the LFE channel off 12db/octave above 120Hz), LFE usually has much lower frequency content and often with very high dynamic range, and not so easily localizable. Bass Management content can go up well over 100Hz for small speakers like surrounds and Atmos tops. That bass above 80Hz is more easily localizable and one could argue that it at least should come from the front of the room, if not evenly distributed. A hybrid solution to using two separate subs would be to augment front speakers with a sub driven directly by the L/R front content (i.e. the sub sums the L/R channels from L/R outputs). Cross that sub over at an appropriate frequency to just complement the low end of the front speakers. Then set the fronts to Large, and send BM to the large fronts. Assuming the bass of the front speakers is good down to a lower frequency than the small speakers, you end up with nicely timbre-matched full range bass from all speakers and localized toward the front of the room. And BTW, Dirac will handle any bump in bass where the front speakers and their dedicated sub overlap. A third solution is to use a miniDSP to manage two subs - one front and one rear - balancing their levels and delays so they look like one sub. Then ... feed one input of the miniDSP the LFE-only output of Center Sub, and the other input a combined signal from the L/R fronts. You can put a low pass filter on that input so the L/R signal to the subs is only what is required below the range of the fronts. This combines all the advantages ... You get the more uniform bass for both LFE and BM from having integrated subs front and rear, and you get the well-matched BM for all speakers. Does the RMC roll the LFE channel off 12db/octave above 120Hz? Yes, RMC and XMC roll off the LFE. I believe it's standard for all processors to do this. |
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 8, 2022 8:32:40 GMT -5
Does the RMC roll the LFE channel off 12db/octave above 120Hz? Yes, RMC and XMC roll off the LFE. I believe it's standard for all processors to do this. I have noticed that sometimes LFE is separate content, and sometimes it is augmented content. It would be a shame if the LFE channel is introducing another 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz with augmented content. Since LFE content is already limited to 120Hz, there is no need for additional filtering. When BM content is sent to the RMC LFE channel, is it also low passed at 120Hz? |
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Post by marcl on Aug 8, 2022 9:00:36 GMT -5
Yes, RMC and XMC roll off the LFE. I believe it's standard for all processors to do this. I have noticed that sometimes LFE is separate content, and sometimes it is augmented content. It would be a shame if the LFE channel is introducing another 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz with augmented content. Since LFE content is already limited to 120Hz, there is no need for additional filtering. When BM content is sent to the RMC LFE channel, is it also low passed at 120Hz? I'm not sure what you mean by the 90 degree phase shift. When I look at the phase response of my LFE channel as measured in REW it's uniform up to 270Hz. But yes, I don't know why processors roll off the LFE. If I measure my subs using a full range channel they respond to over 200Hz. Measured on the LFE channel they roll off. BM content is not sent to the "LFE channel". BM content is sent to the output that is intended to play BM. So in the way most processors work, BM and LFE are sent to whatever subwoofer outputs are configured. BM and LFE content are mixed to that output. The LFE has had the LPF applied before the mixing, as the BM content has had the individual small speaker content LPF's applied at their configured crossover points before the mixing. |
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 8, 2022 9:57:54 GMT -5
I have noticed that sometimes LFE is separate content, and sometimes it is augmented content. It would be a shame if the LFE channel is introducing another 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz with augmented content. Since LFE content is already limited to 120Hz, there is no need for additional filtering. When BM content is sent to the RMC LFE channel, is it also low passed at 120Hz? I'm not sure what you mean by the 90 degree phase shift. When I look at the phase response of my LFE channel as measured in REW it's uniform up to 270Hz. But yes, I don't know why processors roll off the LFE. If I measure my subs using a full range channel they respond to over 200Hz. Measured on the LFE channel they roll off. BM content is not sent to the "LFE channel". BM content is sent to the output that is intended to play BM. So in the way most processors work, BM and LFE are sent to whatever subwoofer outputs are configured. BM and LFE content are mixed to that output. The LFE has had the LPF applied before the mixing, as the BM content has had the individual small speaker content LPF's applied at their configured crossover points before the mixing. A 12db/octave filter is a 2 pole filter. A BW 120Hz 12db/octave filter has a 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz. Phase will not be uniform to 270 Hz - I assume you mean 'uniform' to mean there is no phase difference. I'm assuming the filter is BW. A 12db/octave LP filter that has no phase difference at 270Hz has a knee that is well above 270Hz; probably a decade higher. I understand now that when BM content is combined with the LFE content, at a Sub channel, that the LFE 120Hz filter is applied only to the LFE pre-mix. But, the LFE channel is still introducing a 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz with augmented content; assuming a BW12 filter. Probably not very important in the Sub(s) alone if the BM x-over frequency is an octave or more lower than 120Hz. Probably still important if the augmented LFE content in the Sub is phase shifted with frequency from the same/augmented content in other channels. If the LFE LPF has no or little phase shift at any relevant frequency, as your REW measurements show, than the situation is moot. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Aug 8, 2022 10:28:29 GMT -5
According to the accepted psychoacoustic theory we humans cannot localize sounds below 80-100 Hz. And, assuming that the producers follow standard practices when producing content, content placed in the LFE should be limited to the range below this. However, in practice, there are a whole bunch of factors that complicate this. For one thing, bass management filters are not absolute, so higher frequencies will make their way to the subwoofer that way. Even if you have an 80 Hz crossover, at 24 dB/octave, a sound in another channel at 320 Hz will only be down about 45 dB in the subwoofer. If that sound happens to be loud, and your sub has good high frequency response, that will be well about the background noise level... (And, if you have that sub jacked up by 10-15 dB as well it could well be audible.) However the main thing that I've seen that tends to make localization issues is EXTRANEOUS NOISE. Some subwoofers may make a bit of noise on their own due to cabinet vibration, port chuffing, or just plain distortion of other sorts. And, on top of that, most ROOMS are far from silent when it comes to vibration. You get noises from the floor and walls vibrating... as well as physical vibration in the floor... You get rattling from things on shelves, pipes in the wall, and especially drop ceilings and blinds... (And there's not much you can do to silence a drop ceiling or a window against low frequency vibrations.) Paneled walls tend to buzz... and large windows tend to rattle or boom... And all of these things tend to telegraph the location of the subwoofer. In short, the "rules" about what frequencies can be localized do work, but ONLY IF YOU CAN TOTALLY RULE OUT THESE OTHER CUES. And, if you cannot do so, then a symmetrical arrangement of subwoofers tends to sound much more natural. (And, if you are stuck with a LOT of these other cues, then you're better off with one sub centered at front or back.) Sorry, but I don't agree. When music is playing, (BM only) there is no LFE so the rear sub is silent, when movies or anything with an LFE track is playing the two subs are emitting completely different wave forms, mixed from different signal sources, how can they interfere with one another? On a side note I must apologies for going way off topic! Agreed ... BM and LFE are totally separate content. There's also the issue of frequency range and the ability to localize the sound. Though LFE spec says it can go up to 120Hz (and processors roll the LFE channel off 12db/octave above 120Hz), LFE usually has much lower frequency content and often with very high dynamic range, and not so easily localizable. Bass Management content can go up well over 100Hz for small speakers like surrounds and Atmos tops. That bass above 80Hz is more easily localizable and one could argue that it at least should come from the front of the room, if not evenly distributed. A hybrid solution to using two separate subs would be to augment front speakers with a sub driven directly by the L/R front content (i.e. the sub sums the L/R channels from L/R outputs). Cross that sub over at an appropriate frequency to just complement the low end of the front speakers. Then set the fronts to Large, and send BM to the large fronts. Assuming the bass of the front speakers is good down to a lower frequency than the small speakers, you end up with nicely timbre-matched full range bass from all speakers and localized toward the front of the room. And BTW, Dirac will handle any bump in bass where the front speakers and their dedicated sub overlap. A third solution is to use a miniDSP to manage two subs - one front and one rear - balancing their levels and delays so they look like one sub. Then ... feed one input of the miniDSP the LFE-only output of Center Sub, and the other input a combined signal from the L/R fronts. You can put a low pass filter on that input so the L/R signal to the subs is only what is required below the range of the fronts. This combines all the advantages ... You get the more uniform bass for both LFE and BM from having integrated subs front and rear, and you get the well-matched BM for all speakers. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Aug 8, 2022 10:34:52 GMT -5
There are two opposing trains of thought about that... One is that having two identical subs makes it easier to adjust and balance things. The other is that, by having two different subs, the dips and peaks in each will also tend to be different, and so ADD to a smoother overall response. This is true both if the subs themselves are different and because they're located at different spots in the room. I would personally say that it depends on the degree of localization you have with YOUR subs and room. If you have a situation where the locations of one or more of your subs can be easily localized then they pretty well need to be similar and arranged symmetrically. But, if your subs are individually IMPOSSIBLE to localize, then different subs, at symmetrically different locations in the room, can offer a significant advantage. (However, if you have one sub, which already works well, and absolutely CANNOT be localized, and you can find a good location for it, then "you're done"... And, at that point, there's no real benefit to adding more, and complicating things.) I find it quite simple. One sub at the front of the room for BM which acts as a low end extension of the mains, one sub at the back of the room which takes care of the LFE track. Makes sense to me, otherwise you are asking each sub to simultaneously output two completely different signals, eg the BM from all speakers plus the LFE track, all completely separately mixed signals out of the same speaker? How could that one speaker accurately output two completely different large wave signals at the same time? This way, I find for music the full range of sound eminates from the one place and sounds more tight, BM sounds fake if it comes from a different place than the main speakers. It also allows me to take advantage of the unique roll offs on the RS13's, the sub at the front used for BM I have set to "Flat", which rolls off at around 30hz, and the one at the rear for LFE I have set to "Deep" which allows for a response flat from 16 Hz up. So music sounds brilliant at the front, and movies or anything with an LFE track sounds thunderous into the couch and vibrates the windows! Funny how only the most expensive processors also allow for this. Tells me EMO were onto something here. Well it works for me anyway. Except those two subs playing different bass signals will add together or cancel out different wavelengths when working together in your room. It is bad enough trying to balance multiple subs when they are all simultaneously outputting the same signal. I would say it is next to impossible when one is LFE and one is redirected bass. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 8, 2022 10:44:05 GMT -5
You also need to keep in mind that SPEAKERS and CABINETS introduce mechanical phase shift. The subwoofer driver and cabinet comprise a mechanical tuned filter... and often a quite complex one... whose characteristics you do not know in detail. And, if the subwoofer has its own non-defeatable crossover, that adds electronic phase shift as well. There's not much point in obsessing about the phase shift specifically in the bass management circuitry... Because there's a good chance that there is FAR more phase shift in the subwoofer itself... And, if you're going to bother to make detailed measurements there, then you need to measure it all together. I'm not sure what you mean by the 90 degree phase shift. When I look at the phase response of my LFE channel as measured in REW it's uniform up to 270Hz. But yes, I don't know why processors roll off the LFE. If I measure my subs using a full range channel they respond to over 200Hz. Measured on the LFE channel they roll off. BM content is not sent to the "LFE channel". BM content is sent to the output that is intended to play BM. So in the way most processors work, BM and LFE are sent to whatever subwoofer outputs are configured. BM and LFE content are mixed to that output. The LFE has had the LPF applied before the mixing, as the BM content has had the individual small speaker content LPF's applied at their configured crossover points before the mixing. A 12db/octave filter is a 2 pole filter. A BW 120Hz 12db/octave filter has a 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz. Phase will not be uniform to 270 Hz - I assume you mean 'uniform' to mean there is no phase difference. I'm assuming the filter is BW. A 12db/octave LP filter that has no phase difference at 270Hz has a knee that is well above 270Hz; probably a decade higher. I understand know that when BM content is combined with the LFE content, at a Sub channel, that the LFE 120Hz filter is applied only to the LFE pre-mix. But, the LFE channel is still introducing a 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz with augmented content; assuming a BW12 filter. Probably not very important in the Sub(s) alone if the BM x-over frequency is an octave or more lower than 120Hz. Probably still important if the augmented LFE content in the Sub is phase shifted with frequency from the same/augmented content in other channels. If the LFE LPF has no or little phase shift at any relevant frequency, as your REW measurements show, than the situation is moot. |
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 8, 2022 10:53:07 GMT -5
You also need to keep in mind that SPEAKERS and CABINETS introduce mechanical phase shift. The subwoofer driver and cabinet comprise a mechanical tuned filter... and often a quite complex one... whose characteristics you do not know in detail. And, if the subwoofer has its own non-defeatable crossover, that adds electronic phase shift as well. There's not much point in obsessing about the phase shift specifically in the bass management circuitry... Because there's a good chance that there is FAR more phase shift in the subwoofer itself... And, if you're going to bother to make detailed measurements there, then you need to measure it all together. A 12db/octave filter is a 2 pole filter. A BW 120Hz 12db/octave filter has a 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz. Phase will not be uniform to 270 Hz - I assume you mean 'uniform' to mean there is no phase difference. I'm assuming the filter is BW. A 12db/octave LP filter that has no phase difference at 270Hz has a knee that is well above 270Hz; probably a decade higher. I understand know that when BM content is combined with the LFE content, at a Sub channel, that the LFE 120Hz filter is applied only to the LFE pre-mix. But, the LFE channel is still introducing a 90 degree phase shift at 120Hz with augmented content; assuming a BW12 filter. Probably not very important in the Sub(s) alone if the BM x-over frequency is an octave or more lower than 120Hz. Probably still important if the augmented LFE content in the Sub is phase shifted with frequency from the same/augmented content in other channels. If the LFE LPF has no or little phase shift at any relevant frequency, as your REW measurements show, than the situation is moot. Is there a LPF in the LFE circuit in the RMC? What kind of filter is it? What frequency is it set at? How many poles? What is the phase shift at 120Hz? Please. |
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Post by pepar on Aug 8, 2022 13:15:02 GMT -5
"Port chuffing" ... I learned a new term. It seems to have more than one usage.
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Aug 8, 2022 13:40:58 GMT -5
According to the accepted psychoacoustic theory we humans cannot localize sounds below 80-100 Hz. And, assuming that the producers follow standard practices when producing content, content placed in the LFE should be limited to the range below this. However, in practice, there are a whole bunch of factors that complicate this. For one thing, bass management filters are not absolute, so higher frequencies will make their way to the subwoofer that way. Even if you have an 80 Hz crossover, at 24 dB/octave, a sound in another channel at 320 Hz will only be down about 45 dB in the subwoofer. If that sound happens to be loud, and your sub has good high frequency response, that will be well about the background noise level... (And, if you have that sub jacked up by 10-15 dB as well it could well be audible.) However the main thing that I've seen that tends to make localization issues is EXTRANEOUS NOISE. Some subwoofers may make a bit of noise on their own due to cabinet vibration, port chuffing, or just plain distortion of other sorts. And, on top of that, most ROOMS are far from silent when it comes to vibration. You get noises from the floor and walls vibrating... as well as physical vibration in the floor... You get rattling from things on shelves, pipes in the wall, and especially drop ceilings and blinds... (And there's not much you can do to silence a drop ceiling or a window against low frequency vibrations.) Paneled walls tend to buzz... and large windows tend to rattle or boom... And all of these things tend to telegraph the location of the subwoofer. In short, the "rules" about what frequencies can be localized do work, but ONLY IF YOU CAN TOTALLY RULE OUT THESE OTHER CUES. And, if you cannot do so, then a symmetrical arrangement of subwoofers tends to sound much more natural. (And, if you are stuck with a LOT of these other cues, then you're better off with one sub centered at front or back.) Agreed ... BM and LFE are totally separate content. There's also the issue of frequency range and the ability to localize the sound. Though LFE spec says it can go up to 120Hz (and processors roll the LFE channel off 12db/octave above 120Hz), LFE usually has much lower frequency content and often with very high dynamic range, and not so easily localizable. Bass Management content can go up well over 100Hz for small speakers like surrounds and Atmos tops. That bass above 80Hz is more easily localizable and one could argue that it at least should come from the front of the room, if not evenly distributed. A hybrid solution to using two separate subs would be to augment front speakers with a sub driven directly by the L/R front content (i.e. the sub sums the L/R channels from L/R outputs). Cross that sub over at an appropriate frequency to just complement the low end of the front speakers. Then set the fronts to Large, and send BM to the large fronts. Assuming the bass of the front speakers is good down to a lower frequency than the small speakers, you end up with nicely timbre-matched full range bass from all speakers and localized toward the front of the room. And BTW, Dirac will handle any bump in bass where the front speakers and their dedicated sub overlap. A third solution is to use a miniDSP to manage two subs - one front and one rear - balancing their levels and delays so they look like one sub. Then ... feed one input of the miniDSP the LFE-only output of Center Sub, and the other input a combined signal from the L/R fronts. You can put a low pass filter on that input so the L/R signal to the subs is only what is required below the range of the fronts. This combines all the advantages ... You get the more uniform bass for both LFE and BM from having integrated subs front and rear, and you get the well-matched BM for all speakers. For these reasons, I could always identify the Velodyne HGS-15 subwoofer. The dual Rythmik E22s solved that problem. There is not need for a butt kicker.  - Rich |
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 8, 2022 15:53:36 GMT -5
"Port chuffing" ... I learned a new term. It seems to have more than one usage. One may also consider 'Starboard chuffing'. And, be especially cautious when being confronted with 'Stern chuffing'. |
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