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Post by geebo on May 22, 2020 19:57:50 GMT -5
I will try to remember to check the display on mine tonight when playing a DSD file. I double checked seems still 24bit 48khz Will do a factory reset and see Thanks When I play a DSD file the display shows 2.8224MHz 1bit. When I have the Oppo convert DSD to PCM it shows 88.2kHz 24bits. And when I play a regular CD file I get 44.1kHz 24bits. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 22, 2020 20:47:38 GMT -5
... I just used today my outside Patio Zone 2 and the static annoying noise is present. So are you saying you’re getting this static using the Zone 2 analog L/R outputs, driving an external Zone amp and speakers. I had this problem prior to FW1.10, but no longer hear it, so I believed it was fixed. Or, are you driving your Zone amp with one of the digital outputs, like Optical? |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on May 22, 2020 20:52:12 GMT -5
If set to Auto, it selects the 4K option...and the Green Screen If set to the 4K option....it sticks and I get the Green Screen I've set it to 1080p (or 1080i) and it is rock solid (HDMI lock is very quick) In your example, the highest output from the Tivo is 720p. I probably will just leave it at 1080. I wanted 4K so I could see the Netflix 4K titles, but I can use the Native app on the TV or the Roku. I have Verizon Fios and am getting 1080i feeds. FYI - Tried a totally different new cable this morning and got the same result...it's not the cables. Again - On the bright side, this is a Major improvement. Setting it to 1080 previously didn't make a difference, I would get a black screen with a NO Signal message. Thanks for the suggestions! . . . . . couple more things, In addition to having selected 1080i, also select all of the other resolutions above 1080i except Auto. When I select everything except Auto, then each channel plays its own resolution, and Netflix can still play in 4K. And as an experiment turn off the Bolt's HDR. Is your Bolt TiVo Experience 4 or 3? Just curious. |
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Post by thompson12 on May 22, 2020 21:06:00 GMT -5
Just got my XMC-2 hooked up, programmed all the inputs, no levels or distances yet. Sound stage separstion sounds better already without any setup. My brand new fresh built?  XMC-2 came with firmware 1.8 so i did the update to 1.10, I thought the XMC-1 update was easy this thing is even easier Edir: oops was looking to post this in the trade in upgrade thread yah well Mitch |
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Post by bitzerjdb on May 22, 2020 21:37:01 GMT -5
If set to Auto, it selects the 4K option...and the Green Screen If set to the 4K option....it sticks and I get the Green Screen I've set it to 1080p (or 1080i) and it is rock solid (HDMI lock is very quick) In your example, the highest output from the Tivo is 720p. I probably will just leave it at 1080. I wanted 4K so I could see the Netflix 4K titles, but I can use the Native app on the TV or the Roku. I have Verizon Fios and am getting 1080i feeds. FYI - Tried a totally different new cable this morning and got the same result...it's not the cables. Again - On the bright side, this is a Major improvement. Setting it to 1080 previously didn't make a difference, I would get a black screen with a NO Signal message. Thanks for the suggestions! . . . . . couple more things, In addition to having selected 1080i, also select all of the other resolutions above 1080i except Auto. When I select everything except Auto, then each channel plays its own resolution, and Netflix can still play in 4K. And as an experiment turn off the Bolt's HDR. Is your Bolt TiVo Experience 4 or 3? Just curious. Tried HDR and no difference. Will try selecting multiple resolutions tomorrow Not sure where to check on Tivo Experience, the HD Menu software is b-hydra-mira-4-9.... The version is 21.9.7.v7... Will also look for what the RMC sees on the front display in the morning. Thanks! |
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Post by cwt on May 23, 2020 1:47:22 GMT -5
I double checked seems still 24bit 48khz When I play a DSD file the display shows 2.8224MHz 1bit. When I have the Oppo convert DSD to PCM it shows 88.2kHz 24bits. And when I play a regular CD file I get 44.1kHz 24bits. Thats spot on geebo 24/88.2khz for an oppo converting dsd to lpcm . If anyone has a sony sacd player they would put out 24/176 ;kudos to Emo for bit rate sampling depth readout. Junchoons problem is getting a readout for lpcm on an analogue input [as Hsamwel mentioned previously]. If the word analogue is a bit much for the oled simple dashes would suffice for those inputs imo |
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Post by markc on May 23, 2020 2:01:32 GMT -5
Have an opportunity to get a mini PC for little coin to update the HTPC Problem is it only has display port out. Will a display port to hdmi cable work into the XMC-2 or am I asking for a world of pain? Also when playing 5.1 material, I have the both 'surround' and 'Dolby surround' to choose from... Difference? "Surround" doesn’t do any upmixing. 5.1 will remain 5.1, 7.1 will remain 7.1, even if you have more speakers. This is true for dts and Dolby sources. "Dolby Surround" will only an option if playing PCM or Dolby sources in a system where you have more speaker channels than source channels..(except If Atmos metadata present in the source because Atmos always and only uses its own decoder/upmixer and not The Dolby Surround Upmixer) With Dolby Surround, the Dolby Surround Upmixer is called in to play and will synthesise the extra channels to match the speakers you have right up to 11.1.4 or 9.1.6 generally it does this very well, but here comes a current problem with these processors: With dts sources, you will not get the option to use the Dolby Surround mode (this used to be a Dolby license restriction - now removed but still implemented in the XMC-2 and RMC-1/L) Instead you get the (supposed to be) equivalent option of DTS Neural:X when playing dts source in a system with more speakers than the source However, as per my extensive posts, the dts Neural:X is not always working properly and has marked volume decreases and Front channel sound smearing, even when doing basic upmixing of 5.1 to 7.1. I turn it off (manually) every time it engages. Unfortunately, Neural:X is also pulled into action (and causing these sound distortions) when not required, such as playing 7.1 in a 7.1 system. |
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Post by thezone on May 23, 2020 3:02:37 GMT -5
Have an opportunity to get a mini PC for little coin to update the HTPC Problem is it only has display port out. Will a display port to hdmi cable work into the XMC-2 or am I asking for a world of pain? Also when playing 5.1 material, I have the both 'surround' and 'Dolby surround' to choose from... Difference? "Surround" doesn’t do any upmixing. 5.1 will remain 5.1, 7.1 will remain 7.1, even if you have more speakers. This is true for dts and Dolby sources. "Dolby Surround" will only an option if playing PCM or Dolby sources in a system where you have more speaker channels than source channels..(except If Atmos metadata present in the source because Atmos always and only uses its own decoder/upmixer and not The Dolby Surround Upmixer) With Dolby Surround, the Dolby Surround Upmixer is called in to play and will synthesise the extra channels to match the speakers you have right up to 11.1.4 or 9.1.6 generally it does this very well, but here comes a current problem with these processors: With dts sources, you will not get the option to use the Dolby Surround mode (this used to be a Dolby license restriction - now removed but still implemented in the XMC-2 and RMC-1/L) Instead you get the (supposed to be) equivalent option of DTS Neural:X when playing dts source in a system with more speakers than the source However, as per my extensive posts, the dts Neural:X is not always working properly and has marked volume decreases and Front channel sound smearing, even when doing basic upmixing of 5.1 to 7.1. I turn it off (manually) every time it engages. Unfortunately, Neural:X is also pulled into action (and causing these sound distortions) when not required, such as playing 7.1 in a 7.1 system. All this talk re: upmixing issues is beginning to get me worried. Its one of the things I liked so much about the XMC-1 (which is now on its way to Emo HQ) I only have a 5.1 set up and Dolby PLIIx movies was my 'go to' for upmixing 2ch audio sources and it did a great job. Is this an issue now with the new upmixing surround modes in the XMC-2? |
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Post by markc on May 23, 2020 6:32:09 GMT -5
"Surround" doesn’t do any upmixing. 5.1 will remain 5.1, 7.1 will remain 7.1, even if you have more speakers. This is true for dts and Dolby sources. "Dolby Surround" will only an option if playing PCM or Dolby sources in a system where you have more speaker channels than source channels..(except If Atmos metadata present in the source because Atmos always and only uses its own decoder/upmixer and not The Dolby Surround Upmixer) With Dolby Surround, the Dolby Surround Upmixer is called in to play and will synthesise the extra channels to match the speakers you have right up to 11.1.4 or 9.1.6 generally it does this very well, but here comes a current problem with these processors: With dts sources, you will not get the option to use the Dolby Surround mode (this used to be a Dolby license restriction - now removed but still implemented in the XMC-2 and RMC-1/L) Instead you get the (supposed to be) equivalent option of DTS Neural:X when playing dts source in a system with more speakers than the source However, as per my extensive posts, the dts Neural:X is not always working properly and has marked volume decreases and Front channel sound smearing, even when doing basic upmixing of 5.1 to 7.1. I turn it off (manually) every time it engages. Unfortunately, Neural:X is also pulled into action (and causing these sound distortions) when not required, such as playing 7.1 in a 7.1 system. All this talk re: upmixing issues is beginning to get me worried. Its one of the things I liked so much about the XMC-1 (which is now on its way to Emo HQ) I only have a 5.1 set up and Dolby PLIIx movies was my 'go to' for upmixing 2ch audio sources and it did a great job. Is this an issue now with the new upmixing surround modes in the XMC-2? Yes, It is an issue, sadly. Whilst the Dolby Surround Upmixer does everything that PLIIx did and more (up to 11.1.4 / 9.1.6), it cannot be applied to dts sources in the XMC-2 and RMC-1/L That leaves you with the dts Neural:X as the only option and unfortunately, it can NOT be considered a reasonable option, as I have detailed. There is NOT a usable way to upmix 5.1 dts to even 7.1 channels on the XMC-2 / RMC-1/L I have had to resort to setting JRiver on my HTPC to not Bitstream dts but to output it as 5.1 PCM. (I still bitstream 7.1 dts). Then the Dolby Surround Upmixer can do it's magic and expand the rear channels to 7.1 This does not help me with dts from my blu-ray player, where I now listen to 5.1 dts in 5.1 only |
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Post by junchoon on May 23, 2020 7:20:35 GMT -5
I double checked seems still 24bit 48khz Will do a factory reset and see Thanks When I play a DSD file the display shows 2.8224MHz 1bit. When I have the Oppo convert DSD to PCM it shows 88.2kHz 24bits. And when I play a regular CD file I get 44.1kHz 24bits. Hi After reset I am able to see DSD finally via hdmi input The sparkles of high frequencies are much better Balanced still show 24biit 48khz. I really hope this is just XMC-1 display limitation in regard to analog inputs. The sound is better via hdmi now whereas before factory reset the sounds are quite close between xlr and hdmi Thanks |
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Post by steelman1991 on May 23, 2020 7:32:02 GMT -5
"Surround" doesn’t do any upmixing. 5.1 will remain 5.1, 7.1 will remain 7.1, even if you have more speakers. This is true for dts and Dolby sources. "Dolby Surround" will only an option if playing PCM or Dolby sources in a system where you have more speaker channels than source channels..(except If Atmos metadata present in the source because Atmos always and only uses its own decoder/upmixer and not The Dolby Surround Upmixer) With Dolby Surround, the Dolby Surround Upmixer is called in to play and will synthesise the extra channels to match the speakers you have right up to 11.1.4 or 9.1.6 generally it does this very well, but here comes a current problem with these processors: With dts sources, you will not get the option to use the Dolby Surround mode (this used to be a Dolby license restriction - now removed but still implemented in the XMC-2 and RMC-1/L) Instead you get the (supposed to be) equivalent option of DTS Neural:X when playing dts source in a system with more speakers than the source However, as per my extensive posts, the dts Neural:X is not always working properly and has marked volume decreases and Front channel sound smearing, even when doing basic upmixing of 5.1 to 7.1. I turn it off (manually) every time it engages. Unfortunately, Neural:X is also pulled into action (and causing these sound distortions) when not required, such as playing 7.1 in a 7.1 system. All this talk re: upmixing issues is beginning to get me worried. Its one of the things I liked so much about the XMC-1 (which is now on its way to Emo HQ) I only have a 5.1 set up and Dolby PLIIx movies was my 'go to' for upmixing 2ch audio sources and it did a great job. Is this an issue now with the new upmixing surround modes in the XMC-2? Quite happy to offer a differing opinion to that of markc. I see little difference in dynamics, perhaps a little on overall volume, but nothing that would indicate what he is hearing. Prior to 10.1 I had horrible issues with Neural:X - since then nothing. With the obvious exception of “cross-upmixing” which is a current limitation, Neural:X works fine for my needs and in my set-up (7.2.4). |
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Post by foggy1956 on May 23, 2020 7:43:17 GMT -5
All this talk re: upmixing issues is beginning to get me worried. Its one of the things I liked so much about the XMC-1 (which is now on its way to Emo HQ) I only have a 5.1 set up and Dolby PLIIx movies was my 'go to' for upmixing 2ch audio sources and it did a great job. Is this an issue now with the new upmixing surround modes in the XMC-2? Quite happy to offer a differing opinion to that of markc . I see little difference in dynamics, perhaps a little on overall volume, but nothing that would indicate what he is hearing. Prior to 10.1 I had horrible issues with Neural:X - since then nothing. With the obvious exception of “cross-upmixing” which is a current limitation, Neural:X works fine for my needs and in my set-up (7.2.4). I agree with this sentiment, it could be better but definitely nothing worth shying away from on my unit. |
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Post by megash0n on May 23, 2020 8:25:07 GMT -5
I doubt this is the case. It is not just over a few Hz bandwidth at the subwoofer crossover that is missing. Vocals are muted, everything is muted. (I don't mean just in volume, I mean localisation, reverb) Just the vocal deficit means that the 300 to 3400 Hz range is affected. Bluescale, can I ask you to experiment with the way you change surround mode while listening, as per point 2 in my post, just to see if you can provoke the Neural:X bad effect. Also, what speaker configuration are you and Megashon running. Mine is 7.2 (I forgot I have the Buttkicker set up as Subwoofer 2) I repeatedly found that the Neural:X wasn't even engaging when selected, depending on how it was selected. I don't think I properly conveyed what I'm hypothesizing. I'm wondering if the only channel *not* affected is LFE, or maybe redirected bass as well. I absolutely heard the bad Neural:X upmixing when watching the Batman trilogy (upmixed from 5.1 to 7.1) a couple weeks ago. It sounded horrible until I changed it from Auto to Surround. In my case, the only thing that seemed right when it was being upmixed was the bass. For megash0n, however, he feels that bass is lacking during the upmix also. I'm trying to pinpoint the difference in our experience. As for speakers, I'm running 7.1 (I have 2 subs, but they are split using a miniDSP). Next week I'll install 4 ceiling speakers, but for the moment it's just a standard 7.1 setup. It is really difficult to pinpoint this. I doubt I'm hearing anything wrong with the LFE track, but maybe in the area below the crossover points? Someone has used the word smeared with a loss of vocals. I agree with this as well. The dynamics seem very thin and like a tin can. The audio has no "balls". At some point, I'm going to measure with RTA, I just keep getting busy doing other things. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on May 23, 2020 8:48:30 GMT -5
... I just used today my outside Patio Zone 2 and the static annoying noise is present. So are you saying you’re getting this static using the Zone 2 analog L/R outputs, driving an external Zone amp and speakers. I had this problem prior to FW1.10, but no longer hear it, so I believed it was fixed. Or, are you driving your Zone amp with one of the digital outputs, like Optical? Digital input (usb) - zone 2 dedicated L/R anlog output - patio amp |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 8:53:32 GMT -5
Tried 2.0 pcm source via Amazon Prime and switched back and forth between DSU and Neural:X there is a very marked difference in tone/timber between the two. Neural:X sounds like a blanket has been thrown over all my speakers. The levels are close - within 2-3 dB, but the DSU is by far the better option.
I am running firmware 1.10 in a 7.3.4 configuration.
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Post by geebo on May 23, 2020 9:00:41 GMT -5
All this talk re: upmixing issues is beginning to get me worried. Its one of the things I liked so much about the XMC-1 (which is now on its way to Emo HQ) I only have a 5.1 set up and Dolby PLIIx movies was my 'go to' for upmixing 2ch audio sources and it did a great job. Is this an issue now with the new upmixing surround modes in the XMC-2? Quite happy to offer a differing opinion to that of markc. I see little difference in dynamics, perhaps a little on overall volume, but nothing that would indicate what he is hearing. Prior to 10.1 I had horrible issues with Neural:X - since then nothing. With the obvious exception of “cross-upmixing” which is a current limitation, Neural:X works fine for my needs and in my set-up (7.2.4). That's all I'm getting as well. A lowering of overall volume on some but not all DTS-MA 5.1 soundtracks. For example with Adele at RAH and Joe Bonamassa with Beth Hart in Amsterdam I get the volume decrease when switching to Neural-X but no volume difference when doing the same with Eric Clapton Slowhand at 70. All display DTS-MA 5.1 on the RMC-1L. Nothing else that I would consider a degradation in the overall mix or sound quality. |
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Post by SteveH on May 23, 2020 10:05:43 GMT -5
... I just used today my outside Patio Zone 2 and the static annoying noise is present. So are you saying you’re getting this static using the Zone 2 analog L/R outputs, driving an external Zone amp and speakers. I had this problem prior to FW1.10, but no longer hear it, so I believed it was fixed. Or, are you driving your Zone amp with one of the digital outputs, like Optical? Prior to FW 1.10, I also had a crackle using the Zone 2 analog outputs. I did a lot of rca cable swapping, speaker cable swapping, used different amplifier channels and the crackle was always in the RMC-1's right channel. I have not used Zone 2 since I upgraded to FW 1.10, so after reading this post, I have had my Zone 2 powered up for a few hours now and I no longer hear the crackle. I will let it run all day and see what happens. |
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Post by bitzerjdb on May 23, 2020 10:54:53 GMT -5
Tivo Bolt (Update) Ok...did some more testing this morning. Tried the Active cable from the Bolt to the RMC and no picture at all (expected behavior) Connected the Good HDMI cable and got a picture (Green), the Tivo was set to Auto and saying 4K. On the RMC 4:2:0 SDR, and 2160p/60 10bit Tried deselecting Auto and checked all the other resolutions...Got a picture but no sound. On the RMC 4:4:4 SDR 1080i/60 8bit However, the Tivo said it was using 4K.... HDR was turned off for all of this and Dolby Audio was set to PCM Switching to other inputs on the RMC produced Video and Sound. Tried resetting all the HDMI connections (TV, RMC, Tivo) and no change. Would get a picture and no sound. For giggles, I tried a different HDMI port on the RMC and got the same result. Put the Active cable back between the TIVO and the TV and it worked like a champ...Set the resolution to Auto and Dolby. Like I said previously, there is bad Mojo between the Bolt and the RMC. I have no problem running a second HDMI cable to the TV for a direct connect to the TIVO. I use a MSC-400 controller to execute all the Home Theater Macros, so switching inputs happens in the background and is seamless. Thanks!  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 23, 2020 11:00:57 GMT -5
So are you saying you’re getting this static using the Zone 2 analog L/R outputs, driving an external Zone amp and speakers. I had this problem prior to FW1.10, but no longer hear it, so I believed it was fixed. Or, are you driving your Zone amp with one of the digital outputs, like Optical? Digital input (usb) - zone 2 dedicated L/R anlog output - patio amp Ok, to test whether this is the same or a different issue. Is Zone 2 set to the USB Input, or Follow Main? If it’s set to Follow Main, try changing it to USB and see if the static goes away. Edit: Also, when you have the static is it only in one channel? |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
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Post by ttocs on May 23, 2020 11:18:47 GMT -5
Tivo Bolt (Update) Ok...did some more testing this morning. Like I said previously, there is bad Mojo between the Bolt and the RMC. I have no problem running a second HDMI cable to the TV for a direct connect to the TIVO. I use a MSC-400 controller to execute all the Home Theater Macros, so switching inputs happens in the background and is seamless. Thanks! You've done a lot of good testing and checking! Sorry a good result hasn't happened. Yet. edit: I assume you've also got a current FW for the tv? |
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XMC-2 came with firmware 1.8 so i did the update to 1.10, I thought the XMC-1 update was easy this thing is even easier
