The Official Dirac Live Thread: Start w/1,2,3 🙋‍♂️

[apaz75]

Dec 13, 2021 20:02:33 GMT -5 fjsteven said:

All right. I must be missing something. The main volume slider in Dirac Live has no effect. The pink noise is very loud. I’ve tried decreasing each speaker all the way, but it’s still scary loud. Like I’m gonna blow something. I’ve done searches but can’t seem to find anything on this.

I did get one set of sweeps done, but I had to put ear plugs in. It made it through and the sound is amazing. But I’m worried about running all 13-17 tests.

What am I missing? It’s got to be something easy.

XMC2
XPA 11
C2+
T2+ LR
T0+ LR Surround
A1 LR rear
Generic in ceiling for atmos x6
SVS PB4000
7.1.6

Horrible room, but it’s what I got.

I had this same problem a few months ago when I first got my XMC-2. I reached out to Emotiva Support and was told this issue occasionally happens. The fix is a factory reset on the XMC-2 and then starting everything back up again.

The correction from Emotiva worked. If the Master Output slider is having no control over the levels during volume calibration here is the fix…

Backup your settings - Setup > Advanced > Backup Settings

Factory Reset - Setup > Advanced > Factory Reset

Restore Settings - Setup > Advanced > Reload settings

Re-enable Dirac on the processor (I restarted my processor and Raspberry Pi prior to this).

Close and restart Dirac software.

This worked first time and I was able to control the master output volume again.

[msimanyi]

I am torn about posting this here, but perhaps it's useful to the general community. I have a problem setting the levels.

The reason for my reluctance: I'm using a UMIK-2 microphone, which I'm sure doesn't apply to most people. Ultimately I left that at 100% on the mic level, as suggested by ttocs, I believe. I then found the channel with the lowest sound output by leaving all the channel sliders at max, and adjusting the main gain level. In my case, that's the rear speakers in my 7.x setup.

Per an earlier post, again I believe by ttocs, I targeted -21 db for the speakers and -15 db for the subwoofers. Virtually all of that was easily accomplished... except for my center channel. That was considerably louder, I believe around -12 db, and that was with the slider set as low as it would go for that channel.

Questions:

1) Is that center channel level imbalance a problem, or is that all accommodated by the correction process?
2) The end result has the overall volume much quieter than uncorrected, to where I'm running the system volume around +2 dB to +7 dB while viewing instead of -20 dB or so. This is near the volume limit of the RMC-1. Is this something I can fine tune in the measurement process using a different "levels" set point?
3) The subwoofer sweep was rattling... well, everything. Dishes, glasses, pots, pans, pantry items, display items on the shelves in the room, probably even some of the furniture. Does this adversely affect the room correction results? (I'm using two Martin Logan BalancedForce 210 subs and one ML Dynamo 1100X, already adjusted using their ARC room correction.)

As an aside, I found the SPL for the sweeps quite loud. I wasn't worried about blowing speakers, but it's probably 10 or 15 dB louder than the sweeps for Audyssey on my Marantz AVR. I was surprised the dog didn't leave the room. The cat launched on the first sweep...

Edit: additional comment. It would be GREAT if the earlier posts were edited to remove the references to "set the levels in the green."  That's here in this forum, written into Emotiva's instructions, and even present in their video instructions for running Dirac.  I blew probably 30-40 minutes last night trying to Google that reference, then searching this thread before I found they changed the UI *twice* to get to where we are now.  It was quite frustrating working with bad instructions.

[marcl]

Dec 16, 2021 14:09:02 GMT -5 msimanyi said:

I am torn about posting this here, but perhaps it's useful to the general community. I have a problem setting the levels.

The reason for my reluctance: I'm using a UMIK-2 microphone, which I'm sure doesn't apply to most people. Ultimately I left that at 100% on the mic level, as suggested by ttocs, I believe. I then found the channel with the lowest sound output by leaving all the channel sliders at max, and adjusting the main gain level. In my case, that's the rear speakers in my 7.x setup.

Per an earlier post, again I believe by ttocs, I targeted -21 db for the speakers and -15 db for the subwoofers. Virtually all of that was easily accomplished... except for my center channel. That was considerably louder, I believe around -12 db, and that was with the slider set as low as it would go for that channel.

Questions:

1) Is that center channel level imbalance a problem, or is that all accommodated by the correction process?
2) The end result has the overall volume much quieter than uncorrected, to where I'm running the system volume around +2 dB to +7 dB while viewing instead of -20 dB or so. This is near the volume limit of the RMC-1. Is this something I can fine tune in the measurement process using a different "levels" set point?
3) The subwoofer sweep was rattling... well, everything. Dishes, glasses, pots, pans, pantry items, display items on the shelves in the room, probably even some of the furniture. Does this adversely affect the room correction results? (I'm using two Martin Logan BalancedForce 210 subs and one ML Dynamo 1100X, already adjusted using their ARC room correction.)

As an aside, I found the SPL for the sweeps quite loud. I wasn't worried about blowing speakers, but it's probably 10 or 15 dB louder than the sweeps for Audyssey on my Marantz AVR. I was surprised the dog didn't leave the room. The cat launched on the first sweep...

Edit: additional comment. It would be GREAT if the earlier posts were edited to remove the references to "set the levels in the green."  That's here in this forum, written into Emotiva's instructions, and even present in their video instructions for running Dirac.  I blew probably 30-40 minutes last night trying to Google that reference, then searching this thread before I found they changed the UI *twice* to get to where we are now.  It was quite frustrating working with bad instructions.

I'll give it a try, but I probably can't explain it all ...

What you did was a good start.  The problem is you have very low efficiency and very high efficiency speakers with the difference being more than the range of the sliders.  I have the same issue.  You also have pretty high sub levels. 

The solution is to bring the overall level down so your quietest speaker is around -28 or -30, and set the sub level to -20 or -22.  It doesn't matter to Dirac if the levels are slightly different between speakers but you really don't want to play the sweeps as loud as you are.  No need to do that.  With an SPL phone app, check that the measurements don't exceed 80db.  It also might be necessary to lower the level of your subs with the knob on the subs ... maybe 3-4db to start.

As for your listening levels changing after calibration.  Yes this often happens.  it probably has to do with Dirac lowering overall levels to accommodate some significant cancellation in the response of one or more channels.  Not much you can do about that other than try to get smoother response by moving speakers around.

[msimanyi]

Thanks marcl. I'll re-run tonight and give that a shot.

As a quick aside, I believe all the speakers are relatively close in efficiency - perhaps "inefficiency" is more accurate - but the center-channel amp is a beast compared with the others. (Front and center channels are Martin Logan electrostat hybrids, surround and rear are Magnepan.)

Thank you again!

Mike

[KeithL]

NOW HEAR THIS....  (re Setting Levels)

In many of the instructions you will find about how to set levels in Dirac Live 3 you will see "set the level into the green zone".

Due to several changes in the software user interface THERE IS NO LONGER A "GREEN ZONE" OR "A GREEN STRIPE".

Therefore you should now set the levels using their numerical values.

We recommend using the levels shown in the picture below.

However the specific levels are not critical.

You may have to choose slightly higher or lower values to avoid clipping or the noise floor... and matching between channels is also not critical.

(You are setting the level at which the tests are run... and not the levels as reflected in the final results.)

When running the test sweeps you should expect the test tones to play "loud enough to be annoying"... but not "dangerously loud"...

Dec 16, 2021 14:09:02 GMT -5 msimanyi said:

I am torn about posting this here, but perhaps it's useful to the general community. I have a problem setting the levels.

The reason for my reluctance: I'm using a UMIK-2 microphone, which I'm sure doesn't apply to most people. Ultimately I left that at 100% on the mic level, as suggested by ttocs, I believe. I then found the channel with the lowest sound output by leaving all the channel sliders at max, and adjusting the main gain level. In my case, that's the rear speakers in my 7.x setup.

Per an earlier post, again I believe by ttocs, I targeted -21 db for the speakers and -15 db for the subwoofers. Virtually all of that was easily accomplished... except for my center channel. That was considerably louder, I believe around -12 db, and that was with the slider set as low as it would go for that channel.

Questions:

1) Is that center channel level imbalance a problem, or is that all accommodated by the correction process?
2) The end result has the overall volume much quieter than uncorrected, to where I'm running the system volume around +2 dB to +7 dB while viewing instead of -20 dB or so. This is near the volume limit of the RMC-1. Is this something I can fine tune in the measurement process using a different "levels" set point?
3) The subwoofer sweep was rattling... well, everything. Dishes, glasses, pots, pans, pantry items, display items on the shelves in the room, probably even some of the furniture. Does this adversely affect the room correction results? (I'm using two Martin Logan BalancedForce 210 subs and one ML Dynamo 1100X, already adjusted using their ARC room correction.)

As an aside, I found the SPL for the sweeps quite loud. I wasn't worried about blowing speakers, but it's probably 10 or 15 dB louder than the sweeps for Audyssey on my Marantz AVR. I was surprised the dog didn't leave the room. The cat launched on the first sweep...

Edit: additional comment. It would be GREAT if the earlier posts were edited to remove the references to "set the levels in the green."  That's here in this forum, written into Emotiva's instructions, and even present in their video instructions for running Dirac.  I blew probably 30-40 minutes last night trying to Google that reference, then searching this thread before I found they changed the UI *twice* to get to where we are now.  It was quite frustrating working with bad instructions.

[msimanyi]

Thanks Keith! I do appreciate your help.

Mike

[ttocs]

Dec 16, 2021 14:09:02 GMT -5 msimanyi said:

I am torn about posting this here, but perhaps it's useful to the general community. I have a problem setting the levels.

The reason for my reluctance: I'm using a UMIK-2 microphone, which I'm sure doesn't apply to most people. Ultimately I left that at 100% on the mic level, as suggested by ttocs, I believe. I then found the channel with the lowest sound output by leaving all the channel sliders at max, and adjusting the main gain level. In my case, that's the rear speakers in my 7.x setup.

Per an earlier post, again I believe by ttocs, I targeted -21 db for the speakers and -15 db for the subwoofers. Virtually all of that was easily accomplished... except for my center channel. That was considerably louder, I believe around -12 db, and that was with the slider set as low as it would go for that channel.

Questions:

1) Is that center channel level imbalance a problem, or is that all accommodated by the correction process?
2) The end result has the overall volume much quieter than uncorrected, to where I'm running the system volume around +2 dB to +7 dB while viewing instead of -20 dB or so. This is near the volume limit of the RMC-1. Is this something I can fine tune in the measurement process using a different "levels" set point?
3) The subwoofer sweep was rattling... well, everything. Dishes, glasses, pots, pans, pantry items, display items on the shelves in the room, probably even some of the furniture. Does this adversely affect the room correction results? (I'm using two Martin Logan BalancedForce 210 subs and one ML Dynamo 1100X, already adjusted using their ARC room correction.)

As an aside, I found the SPL for the sweeps quite loud. I wasn't worried about blowing speakers, but it's probably 10 or 15 dB louder than the sweeps for Audyssey on my Marantz AVR. I was surprised the dog didn't leave the room. The cat launched on the first sweep...

Edit: additional comment. It would be GREAT if the earlier posts were edited to remove the references to "set the levels in the green."  That's here in this forum, written into Emotiva's instructions, and even present in their video instructions for running Dirac.  I blew probably 30-40 minutes last night trying to Google that reference, then searching this thread before I found they changed the UI *twice* to get to where we are now.  It was quite frustrating working with bad instructions.

You're off by about 5dB, but no biggie.
I set my speaker channels to about -26dB, and the subs -20dB. It's loud enough I plug my ears, but nowhere near extremely loud. Now, this is where my system likes it. other systems will need to be tailored to the unique combos of amps and speakers, etc.

To get the subs in line with speakers, if you're running out of runway so to speak, is simply to turn down the gain on the subs themselves.

So in your case with the Center Channel, I would try aiming for a quieter overall level when setting the levels in Volume Calibration and see if that works out ok when Dirac runs the sweeps. By ok, I mean that you don't get a "Signal to noise" error which will happen if the level is not high enough.

So for a quick recap.
Mic 100%
Run the pink noise on all channels to get the meters showing levels on each.
Look at the quietest channel and play the pink noise, then use the Master slider to get that channel to the desired level.
Without playing pink noise, adjust all other sliders for speakers to match, and set the subs to where you want them, and for me, this will be 6dB louder than the speakers - so -20dB.

My Dirac EQ is always quieter than User EQ. It varies from filter to filter a little, but usually about 4-6dB quieter.

[msimanyi]

Thank you ttocs! I hope other new users quickly locate this useful input as well.

[fjsteven]

Dec 15, 2021 22:46:09 GMT -5 apaz75 said:

Dec 13, 2021 20:02:33 GMT -5 fjsteven said:

All right. I must be missing something. The main volume slider in Dirac Live has no effect. The pink noise is very loud. I’ve tried decreasing each speaker all the way, but it’s still scary loud. Like I’m gonna blow something. I’ve done searches but can’t seem to find anything on this.

I did get one set of sweeps done, but I had to put ear plugs in. It made it through and the sound is amazing. But I’m worried about running all 13-17 tests.

What am I missing? It’s got to be something easy.

XMC2
XPA 11
C2+
T2+ LR
T0+ LR Surround
A1 LR rear
Generic in ceiling for atmos x6
SVS PB4000
7.1.6

Horrible room, but it’s what I got.

I had this same problem a few months ago when I first got my XMC-2. I reached out to Emotiva Support and was told this issue occasionally happens. The fix is a factory reset on the XMC-2 and then starting everything back up again.

The correction from Emotiva worked. If the Master Output slider is having no control over the levels during volume calibration here is the fix…

Backup your settings - Setup > Advanced > Backup Settings

Factory Reset - Setup > Advanced > Factory Reset

Restore Settings - Setup > Advanced > Reload settings

Re-enable Dirac on the processor (I restarted my processor and Raspberry Pi prior to this).

Close and restart Dirac software.

This worked first time and I was able to control the master output volume again.




This worked! Thank You!

[marcl]

Just saw on the AVS Forum Dirac thread that Dirac is going to CES because they "have an innovative feature to announce". Maybe something nice for our next firmware release?

[Lsc]

It’s very tricky when the amp that powers the Atmos speakers are substantially weaker than the 7 channel amp that power the base speakers.

I can’t get the Dirac calibration to NOT lower the volume significantly. Is there a trick to this?

[marcl]

Dec 23, 2021 15:11:18 GMT -5 Lsc said:

It’s very tricky when the amp that powers the Atmos speakers are substantially weaker than the 7 channel amp that power the base speakers.

I can’t get the Dirac calibration to NOT lower the volume significantly. Is there a trick to this?

It is tricky, but there are two reasons Dirac may lower the volume.  Either it lowers the louder channels (louder either because of more power or more efficient speakers) to match the quiet ones.  Or, it lowers the overall level to bring it down to the low point of a bass cancellation.

In the latter case, Dirac can't really lift bass cancellations much ... can't raise the bridge, have to lower the river.

In my system my Atmos speakers have much less power than my front speakers (like, 120W vs 700W), but they are MUCH more efficient.  So I actually have to lower the level of the Atmos speakers to get them similar to the fronts.

[ttocs]

Dec 23, 2021 15:11:18 GMT -5 Lsc said:

It’s very tricky when the amp that powers the Atmos speakers are substantially weaker than the 7 channel amp that power the base speakers.

I can’t get the Dirac calibration to NOT lower the volume significantly. Is there a trick to this?

+1 to what marcl said. ^^^^

If you think it's directly related to the ATMOS speakers, then try a Dirac run without those speakers and see if any change in volume occurs. My bet is what Marc said about bass. But it's really easy to take out the ATMOS speakers in the Menu to test.

[hsamwel]

I have speakers with about the same sensitivity all pver..
SVS speakers on all places excluding the subs.

The the large fronts are @88db all the rest are @87db.

I have no volume issues.. I actually don’t have much volume difference
between user and Dirac either..

I use 225-300W amplification on my main 5 bed speakers.
The rest are only driven by 65W each.
IMO setting up volume and doing calibration is not an issue with amplifiers.

What weak amplifiers do is lower the dynamic peaks..
Until you reach the limit of the amplifier it will have the same volume as a
higher powered one. As long as they both have the same gain and general specs.

Having speakers with different specs is a lot bigger cause of volume issues.
But as marcl said, this can be worked around.

[marcl]

Okay NOW ... Dirac bailed on CES 2022, but they will still announce ....

[ttocs]

Dec 24, 2021 17:46:35 GMT -5 marcl said:

Okay NOW ... Dirac bailed on CES 2022, but they will still announce ....

It's still on Dirac's site: "We are eagerly looking forward to CES 2022, being held 5-8 January, 2022, in Las Vegas, USA."
So are they just going to announce something and that's it?
I'm confused, but that's not difficult to achieve this week, low bar.

But I'm definitely intrigued by what may be announced!

[marcl]

Dec 24, 2021 18:01:50 GMT -5 ttocs said:

Dec 24, 2021 17:46:35 GMT -5 marcl said:

Okay NOW ... Dirac bailed on CES 2022, but they will still announce ....

It's still on Dirac's site: "We are eagerly looking forward to CES 2022, being held 5-8 January, 2022, in Las Vegas, USA."
So are they just going to announce something and that's it?
I'm confused, but that's not difficult to achieve this week, low bar.

But I'm definitely intrigued by what may be announced!

Flax (Flavio) posted an update on AVS Forum.  Apparently everybody they would have met with at CES bailed so they had no reason to go. But he promises a new feature that everyone except Emotiva users can have soon but we will wait two years 

[leonski]

Maybe another version of DIRAC which means $$$

They all do it. New stuff not compatible with old. For example? ALL my old 32 bit software is no longer usable on my MAC. Gotta be 64bit.....

All my Microsoft Office stuff.....GONE. Photoshop CS4 GONE. Several others, but those listed are costly.....

[leonski]

Dec 24, 2021 16:18:41 GMT -5 hsamwel said:

I have speakers with about the same sensitivity all pver..
SVS speakers on all places excluding the subs.

The the large fronts are @88db all the rest are @87db.

I have no volume issues.. I actually don’t have much volume difference
between user and Dirac either..

I use 225-300W amplification on my main 5 bed speakers.
The rest are only driven by 65W each.
IMO setting up volume and doing calibration is not an issue with amplifiers.

What weak amplifiers do is lower the dynamic peaks..
Until you reach the limit of the amplifier it will have the same volume as a
higher powered one. As long as they both have the same gain and general specs.


Having speakers with different specs is a lot bigger cause of volume issues.
But as marcl said, this can be worked around.

1db is not worth the trouble to worry about.    And I'm thinking you're right about amps.....up to the 'limit'?   Should be no problem, either....

And I'd expect that the ambitious limits of the 5 main speaker amps might NOT be so, if plugged into a common circuit.   250 (value in the middle) X5 =1250 and add for the fact that 
your amp is probably NO MORE than 50% or so efficient?    Than you'd need to know the rating for the Power Supply or simply the big toroid if linear.      At that point?   You might be over 
the line for a 'regular' 15 amp circuit.....
Still and all?   200x5 all driven is nothing to sneeze at...Which is suspect is ALSO a non-issue given real program material...

[markc]

Dec 24, 2021 18:28:33 GMT -5 marcl said:

Flax (Flavio) posted an update on AVS Forum.  Apparently everybody they would have met with at CES bailed so they had no reason to go. But he promises a new feature that everyone except Emotiva users can have soon but we will wait two years 

Two years for Emotiva to announce it s a feature they are interested in, two years to be implemented and released, four years to troubleshoot and get it working almost as intended.