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Post by msimanyi on Feb 3, 2022 15:50:25 GMT -5
marcl When you calibrate, do you have Dirac correct full-range, or do you limit it to something less? I believe ttocs mentioned he doesn't like the Dirac effect full-range. I'm thinking of running 3.2.2 from 15 Hz to 500 Hz, bypassing any potential dipole "confusion."
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Post by marcl on Feb 3, 2022 17:12:17 GMT -5
marcl When you calibrate, do you have Dirac correct full-range, or do you limit it to something less? I believe ttocs mentioned he doesn't like the Dirac effect full-range. I'm thinking of running 3.2.2 from 15 Hz to 500 Hz, bypassing any potential dipole "confusion." I correct full range from 16Hz to 15KHz. I pull the right curtains to 15KHz but honestly I can't hear past 12k probably. It really doesn't do much above 500Hz I'm sure, but it calms down some broad bumps and that has to be good. I also don't know if limiting the range affects how the impulse response correction happens. But anyway, yes I have always done full range with XMC-1 and Dirac 1 and now with 3.2.2. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 3, 2022 19:41:40 GMT -5
Btw.. I can’t save a single curve to use.. Each speaker group in my setup has different curves. I mostly steer how the bass falls of depending on how my room response is with each speaker. I try not to have any speaker over work the low end. If it was only the curtains that reset it would be fine.. Having all my curves reset is atleast 1 hours of work, if not more. You can save a target curve for each speaker group. I have seven. You select save target then select the group and give the target the name of the group. I save them in a folder dated when I did the calibration. Unfortuately you have to load them one at a time too for each group. I wish I could just point to a folder and tell it to load targets and load them all. But it's faster than having to do them over. Bah.. Of course! Didn’t think of that.. Have actually done that before. Saved my curve for the sub and front speakers.  I will probably do that in the weekend, for use with later versions. Thanks for reminding me. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 3, 2022 19:54:21 GMT -5
marcl When you calibrate, do you have Dirac correct full-range, or do you limit it to something less? I believe ttocs mentioned he doesn't like the Dirac effect full-range. I'm thinking of running 3.2.2 from 15 Hz to 500 Hz, bypassing any potential dipole "confusion." I correct full range from 16Hz to 15KHz. I pull the right curtains to 15KHz but honestly I can't hear past 12k probably. It really doesn't do much above 500Hz I'm sure, but it calms down some broad bumps and that has to be good. I also don't know if limiting the range affects how the impulse response correction happens. But anyway, yes I have always done full range with XMC-1 and Dirac 1 and now with 3.2.2. It also depends on how you setup your curve in reference to the room response.. If the speaker response is flat then Dirac doesn’t do a lot. If it moves like a wave and you have setup a flat curve then Dirac does a lot more.. This is what some people don’t like with the Dirac sound, over correction. It changes how the speaker sounds.. This is true for any EQ really. But it is really self inflicted. If you don’t want ”over correction” you should try and follow the speaker response with a custom curve and let Dirac only do smaller corrections. IMO it’s best to do full correction. Dirac does so much more than only flatten the frequency response. |
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Post by fbczar on Feb 4, 2022 14:17:21 GMT -5
Yes I found the same. But I have all my curves saved to a folder so I opened them again and reset the curtains. Even before 3.2.2 I think it always reset the curtains. Have you done REW after to compare same project from 3.1.2 to 3.2.2? I saw some weirdness on the left front only. Btw.. I can’t save a single curve to use.. Each speaker group in my setup has different curves. I mostly steer how the bass falls of depending on how my room response is with each speaker. I try not to have any speaker over work the low end. If it was only the curtains that reset it would be fine.. Having all my curves reset is atleast 1 hours of work, if not more. I am curious about your set up. When you say, "each group in my setup has different curves.", are you saying the curves differ based on the position of curtain placement? Or do you actually design a different curve for each group of speakers? |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 4, 2022 17:53:46 GMT -5
Btw.. I can’t save a single curve to use.. Each speaker group in my setup has different curves. I mostly steer how the bass falls of depending on how my room response is with each speaker. I try not to have any speaker over work the low end. If it was only the curtains that reset it would be fine.. Having all my curves reset is atleast 1 hours of work, if not more. I am curious about your set up. When you say, "each group in my setup has different curves.", are you saying the curves differ based on the position of curtain placement? Or do you actually design a different curve for each group of speakers? I have the exact same curve for all speakers down to were the speaker drops off in the low end. The low end is different for each speaker group, so yes I use a unique curve in that aspect. My curtains often goes down 11-16hz were I have controlled smooth low end drop. In the upper frequency I have the curtain set to max, 24khz. This so I can control my upper drop. The drop I set to all my curves is -2.5dB from 8khz to 20khz. Then after 20khz I steer the drop so I don’t get any bumps but rather a smooth drop. |
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Post by fbczar on Feb 4, 2022 21:41:47 GMT -5
I am curious about your set up. When you say, "each group in my setup has different curves.", are you saying the curves differ based on the position of curtain placement? Or do you actually design a different curve for each group of speakers? I have the exact same curve for all speakers down to were the speaker drops off in the low end. The low end is different for each speaker group, so yes I use a unique curve in that aspect. My curtains often goes down 11-16hz were I have controlled smooth low end drop. In the upper frequency I have the curtain set to max, 24khz. This so I can control my upper drop. The drop I set to all my curves is -2.5dB from 8khz to 20khz. Then after 20khz I steer the drop so I don’t get any bumps but rather a smooth drop. So you employ a unique curve for each speaker below the crossover point? |
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Post by leonski on Feb 4, 2022 23:46:10 GMT -5
You know your measurement microphone / system is not accurate at the 'limits' you set?
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Post by marcl on Feb 5, 2022 14:43:40 GMT -5
On the topic of target curves, despite the general preference for the legendary and perpetually misinterpreted Harman Curves, and in defiance of repeated recommendations from Dirac Support .... I use flat curves.  Modified slightly by dropping them uniformly 3db or so for certain channels so that Dirac doesn't have to do as much boost ... but flat. Except ... there is a circumstance where I'll go back to a project and modify a target curve if the measured result significantly deviates from flat in a way that 1 - makes no sense in terms of what Dirac is capable of correcting, and 2 - an adjustment can be made that is consistent with good practice (i.e. no very narrow shifts, not below 200Hz, etc. So here's an example. I did calibration this week and it went really well, but inexplicably the Left and Right channels had a big wide dip in the range between 500Hz and 1300Hz. Made no sense based on the original Dirac measurements. So I went back to the project and created a custom curve for each the Left and Right based on the REW measurement. Here's the Dirac measurement with the created custom curve, and the corresponding REW measurement that I used as a guide ... for each channel. Notice in particular that in the original Dirac measurement, the range of interest is pretty flat.   My expectation was that Dirac would apply the modified curve and it would counteract whatever circumstance - possibly a room issue - that caused only those two channels to have a big dip that made no sense. And it worked. Here's a plot of the original L/R measurements along with the results of the modified target curves.  |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 5, 2022 14:59:54 GMT -5
I have the exact same curve for all speakers down to were the speaker drops off in the low end. The low end is different for each speaker group, so yes I use a unique curve in that aspect. My curtains often goes down 11-16hz were I have controlled smooth low end drop. In the upper frequency I have the curtain set to max, 24khz. This so I can control my upper drop. The drop I set to all my curves is -2.5dB from 8khz to 20khz. Then after 20khz I steer the drop so I don’t get any bumps but rather a smooth drop. So you employ a unique curve for each speaker below the crossover point? Yes, but not directly below.. I try to keep the speakers room response as long as possible.. All of my bed speakers are big bookshelfs which perform to about 40-60hz in my room. Optimally they would do 40hz flat all of them to keep with the ”one octave” Dirac rule.. Sadly though I don’t have the room to have 9 floor standing speakers. I have all my bed speakers crossed at 80hz and 90 or 100hz for my atmos speakers. Can’t remember if I changed those.. In my room they drop off as early as 80-90hz.. What I actually do is just smoothing out the natural drop.. Example, my center while quite big is not a full range speaker.. It has its natural dropp off at about 50hz give or take.. Then in my room there’s a huge peak at 25hz.. This makes Dirac think it performs to 30hz and wants lift the drop I have between 30hz and 50hz. I don’t allow this lift as I instead attenuate the peak at about 25-30hz and let the speaker have its natural drop all the way.. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 5, 2022 15:07:02 GMT -5
You know your measurement microphone / system is not accurate at the 'limits' you set? I don’t know if this comment was meant for me? I think so though..  Yes, I know it’s less accurate below 100hz and above 10khz.. Most of my speakers have measured a slight drop at the top. I try to follow it and not raise it too much.. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 5, 2022 15:20:55 GMT -5
On the topic of target curves, despite the general preference for the legendary and perpetually misinterpreted Harman Curves, and in defiance of repeated recommendations from Dirac Support .... I use flat curves. Modified slightly by dropping them uniformly 3db or so for certain channels so that Dirac doesn't have to do as much boost ... but flat. Except ... there is a circumstance where I'll go back to a project and modify a target curve if the measured result significantly deviates from flat in a way that 1 - makes no sense in terms of what Dirac is capable of correcting, and 2 - an adjustment can be made that is consistent with good practice (i.e. no very narrow shifts, not below 200Hz, etc. So here's an example. I did calibration this week and it went really well, but inexplicably the Left and Right channels had a big wide dip in the range between 500Hz and 1300Hz. Made no sense based on the original Dirac measurements. So I went back to the project and created a custom curve for each the Left and Right based on the REW measurement. Here's the Dirac measurement with the created custom curve, and the corresponding REW measurement that I used as a guide ... for each channel. Notice in particular that in the original Dirac measurement, the range of interest is pretty flat. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button><button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> My expectation was that Dirac would apply the modified curve and it would counteract whatever circumstance - possibly a room issue - that caused only those two channels to have a big dip that made no sense. And it worked. Here's a plot of the original L/R measurements along with the results of the modified target curves. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Excuse me but I would say defiance of the whole (almost) professional world.  Most calibrators will set up a room with a Dirac default like curve/response.. This basically because most people prefer how it sounds. Of course not all, like you’re an example of.  What most of them have found out is that the multi channel sound becomes a bit dull when calibrated flat. Also at high volume the upper frequencies aren’t so nice to have flat or raised, which most HT setup’s are used with |
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Post by marcl on Feb 5, 2022 15:40:17 GMT -5
On the topic of target curves, despite the general preference for the legendary and perpetually misinterpreted Harman Curves, and in defiance of repeated recommendations from Dirac Support .... I use flat curves. Modified slightly by dropping them uniformly 3db or so for certain channels so that Dirac doesn't have to do as much boost ... but flat. Except ... there is a circumstance where I'll go back to a project and modify a target curve if the measured result significantly deviates from flat in a way that 1 - makes no sense in terms of what Dirac is capable of correcting, and 2 - an adjustment can be made that is consistent with good practice (i.e. no very narrow shifts, not below 200Hz, etc. So here's an example. I did calibration this week and it went really well, but inexplicably the Left and Right channels had a big wide dip in the range between 500Hz and 1300Hz. Made no sense based on the original Dirac measurements. So I went back to the project and created a custom curve for each the Left and Right based on the REW measurement. Here's the Dirac measurement with the created custom curve, and the corresponding REW measurement that I used as a guide ... for each channel. Notice in particular that in the original Dirac measurement, the range of interest is pretty flat. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button><button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> My expectation was that Dirac would apply the modified curve and it would counteract whatever circumstance - possibly a room issue - that caused only those two channels to have a big dip that made no sense. And it worked. Here's a plot of the original L/R measurements along with the results of the modified target curves. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Excuse me but I would say defiance of the whole (almost) professional world.  Most calibrators will set up a room with a Dirac default like curve/response.. This basically because most people prefer how it sounds. Of course not all, like you’re an example of.  What most of them have found out is that the multi channel sound becomes a bit dull when calibrated flat. Also at high volume the upper frequencies aren’t so nice to have flat or raised, which most HT setup’s are used with Yeah I know ... all the calibrators etc. but without a shred of justification other than preferences, but I'm pretty sure the issue is people don't understand how huge bass resonances can be and after calibration all they can hear is how "Dirac killed the bass". So it's marketing - and honestly probably appropriate marketing - to give people what they want instead of an accurate response. I try to tell people that the Harman curves have nothing to do with biology or Fletcher-Munson, etc. .... nothing more than the preferences of a bunch of folks. And as for the high end ... my 67 year old ears roll that off all by themselves above 13K on a good day. But to my point of the tweak today ... you see how an anomaly in the middle could be improved with a post measurement and a tweak to the target. |
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Post by fbczar on Feb 5, 2022 16:33:32 GMT -5
So you employ a unique curve for each speaker below the crossover point? Yes, but not directly below.. I try to keep the speakers room response as long as possible.. All of my bed speakers are big bookshelfs which perform to about 40-60hz in my room. Optimally they would do 40hz flat all of them to keep with the ”one octave” Dirac rule.. Sadly though I don’t have the room to have 9 floor standing speakers. I have all my bed speakers crossed at 80hz and 90 or 100hz for my atmos speakers. Can’t remember if I changed those.. In my room they drop off as early as 80-90hz.. What I actually do is just smoothing out the natural drop.. Example, my center while quite big is not a full range speaker.. It has its natural dropp off at about 50hz give or take.. Then in my room there’s a huge peak at 25hz.. This makes Dirac think it performs to 30hz and wants lift the drop I have between 30hz and 50hz. I don’t allow this lift as I instead attenuate the peak at about 25-30hz and let the speaker have its natural drop all the way.. If you are not using your speakers full range, but have them crossed over at 80Hz or 90Hz, using Dirac will have no effect on a 50Hz or 30Hz signal from your speakers. The crossover slope will determine what, if any, output the subs will have above the crossover point and the speakers will have below the crossover point. So if every speaker in the system has a custom Dirac curve that is identical the crossover effectively determines what Dirac can equalize. Designing one curve for all frequencies in a bass managed system assures the most cohesive sound. |
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Post by leonski on Feb 7, 2022 18:16:47 GMT -5
You know your measurement microphone / system is not accurate at the 'limits' you set? I don’t know if this comment was meant for me? I think so though..  Yes, I know it’s less accurate below 100hz and above 10khz.. Most of my speakers have measured a slight drop at the top. I try to follow it and not raise it too much.. Yes....and I agree with you below perhaps 100hz but don't know how good the mics are in the Above 10khz area......the octave from 10k to 20k..... |
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Post by carbonsummit on Feb 16, 2022 12:21:46 GMT -5
Are there issues with the 2.5 firmware update? In an email I got from Emotiva it said:
"Below is a link to firmware version 2.5 which was just released a couple of weeks ago. This is the most recent update, and we should have another in the next month or so."
Since one is coming out so soon I wondered if there was a problem and maybe I should avoid updating my RMC-1 until after the next one comes out
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 16, 2022 13:16:37 GMT -5
Are there issues with the 2.5 firmware update? In an email I got from Emotiva it said: "Below is a link to firmware version 2.5 which was just released a couple of weeks ago. This is the most recent update, and we should have another in the next month or so." Since one is coming out so soon I wondered if there was a problem and maybe I should avoid updating my RMC-1 until after the next one comes out I've updated to 2.5 as well as others here. ttocs has reviewed 2.5 and has concluded that there are improvements especially in the bass area. Even though they say release is soon, you never know. I would update the firmware. |
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Post by msimanyi on Feb 16, 2022 16:05:31 GMT -5
I agree with cawgijoe.
Despite that, I am finding I have to reboot my RMC1 every few days when it becomes unresponsive. I recently installed some HDMI adapters on my TV and AppleTV to see if blocking CEC helps, but it needed a full reboot yesterday evening. I believe I've seen others reporting the same issue.
The correction is minor, but still a bit annoying. My processor arrived to me with 2.4 installed, and I don't recall having this problem.
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cawgijoe
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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 16, 2022 17:21:23 GMT -5
I agree with cawgijoe. Despite that, I am finding I have to reboot my RMC1 every few days when it becomes unresponsive. I recently installed some HDMI adapters on my TV and AppleTV to see if blocking CEC helps, but it needed a full reboot yesterday evening. I believe I've seen others reporting the same issue. The correction is minor, but still a bit annoying. My processor arrived to me with 2.4 installed, and I don't recall having this problem. That is strange. I have not had to reboot my XMC-2 in months. Can you describe what you have connected, and TV model....any additional information and details that may assist in figuring out why? Thanks |
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Post by msimanyi on Feb 17, 2022 15:26:51 GMT -5
What's odd is nothing changed on the hardware, but with 2.5 I'm doing fairly frequent rebooting. Sometimes it's daily.
The HDMI connections are very simple: output to a single Panasonic plasma into the ARC HDMI port on that. One input is the AppleTV4k, the current version. The other input is my DirecTV DVR. I've tried changing the HDMI ports to 1.4, and that didn't make a difference. I've changed CEC settings. No difference.
I'm thinking of getting a Sony A90J just to make sure it's not due to the relatively ancient TV - it's their 2012 model; I believe a VT50.
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