KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,266
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Post by KeithL on Mar 10, 2022 12:54:39 GMT -5
I've always thought it was "you-mick" - but that's just a guess. I move the UMIK-1 mic around on a long boom stand so I can reach all the positions from behind the couch without moving the base of the stand. This allows me to get more consistent placement of the mic, as well as saves a lot of time in the calibration process. But I've had this problem with the USB cable attachment to the UMIK-1. At least two or three times the connector has bent as I moved the mic to new positions ... even being as careful as I can be not pulling on the cable. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> So I think this will be a good solution: A short pigtail, heat shrink tubing, and a USB extension cable. Of course, a simple thing like this couldn't be simple ... I ordered a box with an assortment of tubing sizes so I'd have them for future projects. Turns out for this project, there were just TWO sizes ... too big and too small. But I was clever enough and I think this will work nicely. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Now the only problem I have left is .... do you say "ooh-mick" or "you-mike"?  |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Mar 15, 2022 9:52:03 GMT -5
Has anyone reloaded a Dirac project from an older version, recalculated the filters in Dirac 3.2.2, and applied the new filters to your processor? I did exactly this about a week ago. I noticed the bass was pretty hot when watching a movie at lower volumes than I usually do but didn't think too much of it. Then I put on a test scene (Edge of Tomorrow intro) and practically blew my basement door off it's hinges.
I ran a sweep in REW at -30 dbfs and the master volume at -20 db and the bass measured 30 db HOT compared to my mains. I was hitting 105 db at this level down at around 20hz.
I did recently introduce BEQ with my MiniDSP to those who are familiar, so my first thought was that I had loaded a profile and then the settings had not cleared from the MiniDSP meaning it was boosting the bass in the MiniDSP, but I checked and don't see any EQ still applied other than my cut at 10 hz.
So just curious if anyone else has noticed anything similar? I'm on firmware 2.5 and running Dirac 3.2.2 I believe. My current plan is to do a factory reset this weekend and then do a complete new run of Dirac and not reuse my old project file to see if the problem persists.
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Post by marcl on Mar 15, 2022 10:08:53 GMT -5
Has anyone reloaded a Dirac project from an older version, recalculated the filters in Dirac 3.2.2, and applied the new filters to your processor? I did exactly this about a week ago. I noticed the bass was pretty hot when watching a movie at lower volumes than I usually do but didn't think too much of it. Then I put on a test scene (Edge of Tomorrow intro) and practically blew my basement door off it's hinges. I ran a sweep in REW at -30 dbfs and the master volume at -20 db and the bass measured 30 db HOT compared to my mains. I was hitting 105 db at this level down at around 20hz. I did recently introduce BEQ with my MiniDSP to those who are familiar, so my first thought was that I had loaded a profile and then the settings had not cleared from the MiniDSP meaning it was boosting the bass in the MiniDSP, but I checked and don't see any EQ still applied other than my cut at 10 hz. So just curious if anyone else has noticed anything similar? I'm on firmware 2.5 and running Dirac 3.2.2 I believe. My current plan is to do a factory reset this weekend and then do a complete new run of Dirac and not reuse my old project file to see if the problem persists. When 3.2.2 came out (and I was on FW 2.5) I did as you said reloading an old project and I had no issues. I usually do that to see if Dirac recalculates filters which would be an indication that some significant changes happened. I also have done four complete calibrations with new measurements as well as (I know this sounds crazy) at least 20 recalculations with slight tweaks to the target curves. Generally I see no issues ... but ... I do see an unusual effect related to the position to the left (bass) curtain. My Fronts are set to Large and outputs split so they go to both the Fronts and the Subs. I use my miniDSP to limit the Subs to 10-50Hz. With the 3.2.2 Dirac it seems very sensitive to the position of the left curtain. Sometimes it results in a 5-6db peak at 20-25Hz, and sometimes a deep notch in the same area. So I've gone in and out of Dirac nudging the position of the left curtain for my Fronts literally 1Hz back and forth until I get a smooth measurement down to 17Hz. So while I'm not seeing the extreme that you're seeing, this could be related. |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Mar 15, 2022 15:54:26 GMT -5
Has anyone reloaded a Dirac project from an older version, recalculated the filters in Dirac 3.2.2, and applied the new filters to your processor? I did exactly this about a week ago. I noticed the bass was pretty hot when watching a movie at lower volumes than I usually do but didn't think too much of it. Then I put on a test scene (Edge of Tomorrow intro) and practically blew my basement door off it's hinges. I ran a sweep in REW at -30 dbfs and the master volume at -20 db and the bass measured 30 db HOT compared to my mains. I was hitting 105 db at this level down at around 20hz. I did recently introduce BEQ with my MiniDSP to those who are familiar, so my first thought was that I had loaded a profile and then the settings had not cleared from the MiniDSP meaning it was boosting the bass in the MiniDSP, but I checked and don't see any EQ still applied other than my cut at 10 hz. So just curious if anyone else has noticed anything similar? I'm on firmware 2.5 and running Dirac 3.2.2 I believe. My current plan is to do a factory reset this weekend and then do a complete new run of Dirac and not reuse my old project file to see if the problem persists. When 3.2.2 came out (and I was on FW 2.5) I did as you said reloading an old project and I had no issues. I usually do that to see if Dirac recalculates filters which would be an indication that some significant changes happened. I also have done four complete calibrations with new measurements as well as (I know this sounds crazy) at least 20 recalculations with slight tweaks to the target curves. Generally I see no issues ... but ... I do see an unusual effect related to the position to the left (bass) curtain. My Fronts are set to Large and outputs split so they go to both the Fronts and the Subs. I use my miniDSP to limit the Subs to 10-50Hz. With the 3.2.2 Dirac it seems very sensitive to the position of the left curtain. Sometimes it results in a 5-6db peak at 20-25Hz, and sometimes a deep notch in the same area. So I've gone in and out of Dirac nudging the position of the left curtain for my Fronts literally 1Hz back and forth until I get a smooth measurement down to 17Hz. So while I'm not seeing the extreme that you're seeing, this could be related. That definitely seems odd. I'm going to play around with it more this week and see if I can figure anything else out. |
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Post by marcl on Mar 15, 2022 16:26:51 GMT -5
When 3.2.2 came out (and I was on FW 2.5) I did as you said reloading an old project and I had no issues. I usually do that to see if Dirac recalculates filters which would be an indication that some significant changes happened. I also have done four complete calibrations with new measurements as well as (I know this sounds crazy) at least 20 recalculations with slight tweaks to the target curves. Generally I see no issues ... but ... I do see an unusual effect related to the position to the left (bass) curtain. My Fronts are set to Large and outputs split so they go to both the Fronts and the Subs. I use my miniDSP to limit the Subs to 10-50Hz. With the 3.2.2 Dirac it seems very sensitive to the position of the left curtain. Sometimes it results in a 5-6db peak at 20-25Hz, and sometimes a deep notch in the same area. So I've gone in and out of Dirac nudging the position of the left curtain for my Fronts literally 1Hz back and forth until I get a smooth measurement down to 17Hz. So while I'm not seeing the extreme that you're seeing, this could be related. That definitely seems odd. I'm going to play around with it more this week and see if I can figure anything else out. Do you use REW to measure after you run the filters? Last time I worked on it I wanted to rerun position #1 so I loaded just measurements (not the filter project) from my previous calibration and so the mic was at position #1 and didn't move. So I was able to do the REW measurement afterward from exactly that position. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 15, 2022 18:56:10 GMT -5
Has anyone reloaded a Dirac project from an older version, recalculated the filters in Dirac 3.2.2, and applied the new filters to your processor? I did exactly this about a week ago. I noticed the bass was pretty hot when watching a movie at lower volumes than I usually do but didn't think too much of it. Then I put on a test scene (Edge of Tomorrow intro) and practically blew my basement door off it's hinges. I ran a sweep in REW at -30 dbfs and the master volume at -20 db and the bass measured 30 db HOT compared to my mains. I was hitting 105 db at this level down at around 20hz. I did recently introduce BEQ with my MiniDSP to those who are familiar, so my first thought was that I had loaded a profile and then the settings had not cleared from the MiniDSP meaning it was boosting the bass in the MiniDSP, but I checked and don't see any EQ still applied other than my cut at 10 hz. So just curious if anyone else has noticed anything similar? I'm on firmware 2.5 and running Dirac 3.2.2 I believe. My current plan is to do a factory reset this weekend and then do a complete new run of Dirac and not reuse my old project file to see if the problem persists. When 3.2.2 came out (and I was on FW 2.5) I did as you said reloading an old project and I had no issues. I usually do that to see if Dirac recalculates filters which would be an indication that some significant changes happened. I also have done four complete calibrations with new measurements as well as (I know this sounds crazy) at least 20 recalculations with slight tweaks to the target curves. Generally I see no issues ... but ... I do see an unusual effect related to the position to the left (bass) curtain. My Fronts are set to Large and outputs split so they go to both the Fronts and the Subs. I use my miniDSP to limit the Subs to 10-50Hz. With the 3.2.2 Dirac it seems very sensitive to the position of the left curtain. Sometimes it results in a 5-6db peak at 20-25Hz, and sometimes a deep notch in the same area. So I've gone in and out of Dirac nudging the position of the left curtain for my Fronts literally 1Hz back and forth until I get a smooth measurement down to 17Hz. So while I'm not seeing the extreme that you're seeing, this could be related. Did you TOUCH the microphone at all between big peak and big dip measurments? |
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Post by marcl on Mar 15, 2022 21:01:55 GMT -5
When 3.2.2 came out (and I was on FW 2.5) I did as you said reloading an old project and I had no issues. I usually do that to see if Dirac recalculates filters which would be an indication that some significant changes happened. I also have done four complete calibrations with new measurements as well as (I know this sounds crazy) at least 20 recalculations with slight tweaks to the target curves. Generally I see no issues ... but ... I do see an unusual effect related to the position to the left (bass) curtain. My Fronts are set to Large and outputs split so they go to both the Fronts and the Subs. I use my miniDSP to limit the Subs to 10-50Hz. With the 3.2.2 Dirac it seems very sensitive to the position of the left curtain. Sometimes it results in a 5-6db peak at 20-25Hz, and sometimes a deep notch in the same area. So I've gone in and out of Dirac nudging the position of the left curtain for my Fronts literally 1Hz back and forth until I get a smooth measurement down to 17Hz. So while I'm not seeing the extreme that you're seeing, this could be related. Did you TOUCH the microphone at all between big peak and big dip measurments? My desk is behind the couch, so no I didn't even get out of my chair. The peaks and dips were a result of moving the left curtain and letting Dirac reprocess the filters. Nothing else changed. No earthquakes either :-) |
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Post by hsamwel on Mar 16, 2022 6:59:13 GMT -5
Did you TOUCH the microphone at all between big peak and big dip measurments? My desk is behind the couch, so no I didn't even get out of my chair. The peaks and dips were a result of moving the left curtain and letting Dirac reprocess the filters. Nothing else changed. No earthquakes either :-) This is one of the reasons I always ”steer” the bass in the right direction (down) at <20-25hz. I usually set the curtain at 10-14hz depending on speaker. I notice even Dirac will show a spike sometimes if the curtain is in the wrong place. In my room this is worse as my three front speakers and subs have a HUGE peak (+14dB) at 24-25hz. The good thing though is the bass extension I get for free.. Just letting Dirac attenuate it.. My speakers having to work less in the absolute low end. But without Dirac or any PEQ it will not sound nice at all.. So that’s probably why I’m not so fond of listening to Reference Stereo with low bass heavy music. Yes, I know most music won’t extend lower than 30hz. But this peak is 10hz wide then I have a dip at about 35hz (-4 to -7dB depending on speaker) and another peak at 47-48hz of about 5-7 dBs.. So I have a rollercoaster in my low end.. Which Dirac fixes amazingly good. |
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Post by marcl on Mar 16, 2022 7:08:43 GMT -5
My desk is behind the couch, so no I didn't even get out of my chair. The peaks and dips were a result of moving the left curtain and letting Dirac reprocess the filters. Nothing else changed. No earthquakes either :-) This is one of the reasons I always ”steer” the bass in the right direction (down) at <20-25hz. I usually set the curtain at 10-14hz depending on speaker. I notice even Dirac will show a spike sometimes if the curtain is in the wrong place. In my this is worse as my three front speakers and subs have a HUGE peak (+14dB) at 24-25hz. The good thing though is the bass extension I get for free.. Just letting Dirac attenuate it.. My speakers having to work less in the absolute low end. Yes exactly and I've always done that too. But all of a sudden something is weird since 3.2.X. It works fine for the Center Sub channel which feeds the miniDSP and the two subs. I pull the curtain out to maybe 10Hz and steer the curve down below 16Hz. But on my Fronts (which split and feed the same miniDSP) it doesn't work anymore. I set the curve and curtain the same as Center Sub - because below 50Hz it's literally the same speakers - but the position of the curtain is very critical. I have to have the curtain left of 20Hz because I have a huge peak like you do ... mine is +15db at 40Hz but it's still like +5 at 20Hz. I'm still trying to figure out why all of a sudden it changed and is so sensitive only for the Fronts. |
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Post by hsamwel on Mar 16, 2022 7:22:16 GMT -5
This is one of the reasons I always ”steer” the bass in the right direction (down) at <20-25hz. I usually set the curtain at 10-14hz depending on speaker. I notice even Dirac will show a spike sometimes if the curtain is in the wrong place. In my this is worse as my three front speakers and subs have a HUGE peak (+14dB) at 24-25hz. The good thing though is the bass extension I get for free.. Just letting Dirac attenuate it.. My speakers having to work less in the absolute low end. Yes exactly and I've always done that too. But all of a sudden something is weird since 3.2.X. It works fine for the Center Sub channel which feeds the miniDSP and the two subs. I pull the curtain out to maybe 10Hz and steer the curve down below 16Hz. But on my Fronts (which split and feed the same miniDSP) it doesn't work anymore. I set the curve and curtain the same as Center Sub - because below 50Hz it's literally the same speakers - but the position of the curtain is very critical. I have to have the curtain left of 20Hz because I have a huge peak like you do ... mine is +15db at 40Hz but it's still like +5 at 20Hz. I'm still trying to figure out why all of a sudden it changed and is so sensitive only for the Fronts. Maybe you need to take this up with Dirac? It shouldn’t behave like this.. Does it work as expected if you use an older Dirac version? |
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Post by marcl on Mar 16, 2022 8:06:01 GMT -5
Yes exactly and I've always done that too. But all of a sudden something is weird since 3.2.X. It works fine for the Center Sub channel which feeds the miniDSP and the two subs. I pull the curtain out to maybe 10Hz and steer the curve down below 16Hz. But on my Fronts (which split and feed the same miniDSP) it doesn't work anymore. I set the curve and curtain the same as Center Sub - because below 50Hz it's literally the same speakers - but the position of the curtain is very critical. I have to have the curtain left of 20Hz because I have a huge peak like you do ... mine is +15db at 40Hz but it's still like +5 at 20Hz. I'm still trying to figure out why all of a sudden it changed and is so sensitive only for the Fronts. Maybe you need to take this up with Dirac? It shouldn’t behave like this.. Does it work as expected if you use an older Dirac version? Yes, it used to work. And recall that Dirac tried to limit correction to only >20Hz with the curtains constrained to not move left of 20Hz. They did this with 3.2.0 but nobody noticed because that release was broken and they quickly released 3.2.1. THEN a lot of people noticed and complained and they quickly released 3.2.2 going back to allowing correction down to 10Hz. The excuse they gave for the 20Hz limit was that they had a hard time rejecting ambient noise below 20Hz. I find it hard to believe that many of us have ambient noise even below 40Hz ... though my refrigerator does put out 40Hz when the compressor goes on. So they must have changed something, and my guess is it was in the time domain causing phase shift in that low range. I may put in a ticket. The thing is I'm reluctant because whenever I send them screen shots of my target curves they tell me I should be using Harman curves and that just annoys the hell out of me because it's irrelevant and BS  |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Mar 16, 2022 8:39:43 GMT -5
That definitely seems odd. I'm going to play around with it more this week and see if I can figure anything else out. Do you use REW to measure after you run the filters? Last time I worked on it I wanted to rerun position #1 so I loaded just measurements (not the filter project) from my previous calibration and so the mic was at position #1 and didn't move. So I was able to do the REW measurement afterward from exactly that position. Yes I did measure with REW. I'll have to see if I can grab the screenshot of the measurement tonight. I also wonder if this is related to the changes they made allowing correction down to 10 hz again, not necessarily my issue but yours perhaps. I get the feeling that mine is due to some sort of levels issue from either introducing BEQ with the MiniDSP or some issue with reloading old projects in Dirac and then loading them to the XMC-2 (perhaps something with the BM Issue??). |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,266
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Post by KeithL on Mar 16, 2022 13:07:02 GMT -5
Do bear in mind that, since Dirac doesn't adjust the response outside the curtains, at the actual curtain points, it must "bend the line inside the curtains to meet the line outside the curtains". This MAY result is significant differences in how the filters near the curtains are calculated if you move the curtains.
My desk is behind the couch, so no I didn't even get out of my chair. The peaks and dips were a result of moving the left curtain and letting Dirac reprocess the filters. Nothing else changed. No earthquakes either :-) This is one of the reasons I always ”steer” the bass in the right direction (down) at <20-25hz. I usually set the curtain at 10-14hz depending on speaker. I notice even Dirac will show a spike sometimes if the curtain is in the wrong place. In my room this is worse as my three front speakers and subs have a HUGE peak (+14dB) at 24-25hz. The good thing though is the bass extension I get for free.. Just letting Dirac attenuate it.. My speakers having to work less in the absolute low end. But without Dirac or any PEQ it will not sound nice at all.. So that’s probably why I’m not so fond of listening to Reference Stereo with low bass heavy music. Yes, I know most music won’t extend lower than 30hz. But this peak is 10hz wide then I have a dip at about 35hz (-4 to -7dB depending on speaker) and another peak at 47-48hz of about 5-7 dBs.. So I have a rollercoaster in my low end.. Which Dirac fixes amazingly good. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 16, 2022 14:31:51 GMT -5
25hz is about a 13.6 foot wavelength. Does this match any room dimensions.....even with a bounce? that would possibly account for the HUGE peak of +14db
at that frequency.
Shaking Ground, marci? That's what happens when Mother Nature forgets to take her Earth Control Pill....
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Post by marcl on Mar 16, 2022 15:09:11 GMT -5
Do bear in mind that, since Dirac doesn't adjust the response outside the curtains, at the actual curtain points, it must "bend the line inside the curtains to meet the line outside the curtains". This MAY result is significant differences in how the filters near the curtains are calculated if you move the curtains.
This is one of the reasons I always ”steer” the bass in the right direction (down) at <20-25hz. I usually set the curtain at 10-14hz depending on speaker. I notice even Dirac will show a spike sometimes if the curtain is in the wrong place. In my room this is worse as my three front speakers and subs have a HUGE peak (+14dB) at 24-25hz. The good thing though is the bass extension I get for free.. Just letting Dirac attenuate it.. My speakers having to work less in the absolute low end. But without Dirac or any PEQ it will not sound nice at all.. So that’s probably why I’m not so fond of listening to Reference Stereo with low bass heavy music. Yes, I know most music won’t extend lower than 30hz. But this peak is 10hz wide then I have a dip at about 35hz (-4 to -7dB depending on speaker) and another peak at 47-48hz of about 5-7 dBs.. So I have a rollercoaster in my low end.. Which Dirac fixes amazingly good. Yes, and that's why many of us complained on AVSForum that in order to get controlled response TO 20Hz (which I think is a very reasonable goal) we need to be able to pull the curtain somewhat to the left of 20. So they returned that capability. But something else changed between 3.1.2 and 3.2.2 that is making the position of the curtain left of 20Hz very touchy and sometimes causing significant peaks and dips that were not in the original response. So it's not a matter of it not fully correcting ... it's actually sometimes OVER correcting either positive or negative and without any predictability that I've been able to determine. |
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Post by msimanyi on Mar 17, 2022 1:45:41 GMT -5
25hz is about a 13.6 foot wavelength. Does this match any room dimensions.....even with a bounce? that would possibly account for the HUGE peak of +14db at that frequency. Shaking Ground, marci? That's what happens when Mother Nature forgets to take her Earth Control Pill.... Units, good sir! I think you meant meters there. In feet, it's about 45. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 17, 2022 14:13:43 GMT -5
DUH! You're right. Next you know, I'll be sending off resuts in CUBITS......
Still and all? Bass is the WORST to get right and also generally has higher energy......
ONE musical note below 20hz is the 16hz (about) from a PIPE ORGAN. This is an incredibly low
note and in MY house at the low level I can reproduce it? shakes the whole place....
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Post by msimanyi on Mar 17, 2022 15:07:51 GMT -5
What's a cubit? Well never mind. Don't worry about that right now. After you build the ark... (But I digress.  ) |
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Post by hsamwel on Mar 17, 2022 18:58:39 GMT -5
Maybe you need to take this up with Dirac? It shouldn’t behave like this.. Does it work as expected if you use an older Dirac version? Yes, it used to work. And recall that Dirac tried to limit correction to only >20Hz with the curtains constrained to not move left of 20Hz. They did this with 3.2.0 but nobody noticed because that release was broken and they quickly released 3.2.1. THEN a lot of people noticed and complained and they quickly released 3.2.2 going back to allowing correction down to 10Hz. The excuse they gave for the 20Hz limit was that they had a hard time rejecting ambient noise below 20Hz. I find it hard to believe that many of us have ambient noise even below 40Hz ... though my refrigerator does put out 40Hz when the compressor goes on. So they must have changed something, and my guess is it was in the time domain causing phase shift in that low range. I may put in a ticket. The thing is I'm reluctant because whenever I send them screen shots of my target curves they tell me I should be using Harman curves and that just annoys the hell out of me because it's irrelevant and BS Should be using??? Who ever tells you such BS? You can use or they recommend, nothing more. Yes, this is highly irrelevant to the issue. Btw if you use a Harman curve does it behave the same? It should really.. |
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Post by marcl on Mar 17, 2022 19:59:01 GMT -5
Yes, it used to work. And recall that Dirac tried to limit correction to only >20Hz with the curtains constrained to not move left of 20Hz. They did this with 3.2.0 but nobody noticed because that release was broken and they quickly released 3.2.1. THEN a lot of people noticed and complained and they quickly released 3.2.2 going back to allowing correction down to 10Hz. The excuse they gave for the 20Hz limit was that they had a hard time rejecting ambient noise below 20Hz. I find it hard to believe that many of us have ambient noise even below 40Hz ... though my refrigerator does put out 40Hz when the compressor goes on. So they must have changed something, and my guess is it was in the time domain causing phase shift in that low range. I may put in a ticket. The thing is I'm reluctant because whenever I send them screen shots of my target curves they tell me I should be using Harman curves and that just annoys the hell out of me because it's irrelevant and BS Should be using??? Who ever tells you such BS? You can use or they recommend, nothing more. Yes, this is highly irrelevant to the issue. Btw if you use a Harman curve does it behave the same? It should really.. Yes I got that response from Dirac support more than once. Fact is, I have actually read the Harman AES papers so I know the origin of the curves and they are irrelevant. If someone wants to boost their bass they can just boost their bass. I actually have my Fronts ramped up 3db below 100Hz but that's to balance some other irregularities in response above that point, as well as mitigating some of the BM bug issues. I end up with a flat curve when the curtain issue is sorted out. |
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I move the UMIK-1 mic around on a long boom stand so I can reach all the positions from behind the couch without moving the base of the stand. This allows me to get more consistent placement of the mic, as well as saves a lot of time in the calibration process. But I've had this problem with the USB cable attachment to the UMIK-1. At least two or three times the connector has bent as I moved the mic to new positions ... even being as careful as I can be not pulling on the cable.
)