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Post by oldwood on Nov 28, 2023 7:55:54 GMT -5
I managed to run some sweeps and get filters setup for the XMC-2 but had to abandon the MAC laptop and track down a Windows laptop.
I got a low signal-to-noise error when running on the MAC and Damon at Emotiva went the extra mile to confirm it was all set correctly and should have worked. We had the latest MAC OS and the latest DIRAC version. I am still not sure if it was the MAC OS or the USB converter cable needed to connect to the MAC. We tried 2 one was a MAC branded cable but still got the errors.
Once the Windows laptop was set up the sweeps ran fine, I did need to remeasure a few locations but all in all it worked well. Uploaded the filters to the presets, one for blinds down and 1 for blinds up, and it is easy to use.
I am curious if any of the MAC users needed a particular USB A to MAC cable or if that is not the issue.
Thanks to all for the help getting this done and a big shout-out to Damon for going the extra mile.
Gerry
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Post by msimanyi on Nov 29, 2023 12:32:19 GMT -5
oldwood I need to re-run all my setup (including Multi-Sub Optimizer), which I won't have time to do for at least a few weeks yet, but I do this on a Mac. (MSO in a VM on the Mac, as MSO is a Windows program.) I'll do my best to remember to post back here about the results, but under the prior MacOS (13.x) everything worked fine for me. Are you on MacOS 14.x or a prior version?
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 8:33:17 GMT -5
oldwood I need to re-run all my setup (including Multi-Sub Optimizer), which I won't have time to do for at least a few weeks yet, but I do this on a Mac. (MSO in a VM on the Mac, as MSO is a Windows program.) I'll do my best to remember to post back here about the results, but under the prior MacOS (13.x) everything worked fine for me. Are you on MacOS 14.x or a prior version? I assume it is 14 as I was told it was the latest update, but I am not familiar with Mac and did not check the version, I run Linux, but I have run Windows in the past so it is more familiar to me than Mac.
I assume you must use a USB A to C cable converter to connect the microphone to the Mac? I suspected it was a cable issue but had no way to verify that and the Windows laptop was available to try, so we went with that.
I run Anthem ARC on a Linux PC but in a Windows VM, but my laptop does not have Virtualbox setup on it so had to borrow a laptop.
That would be great if you can post back with your results, I may need to run DIRAC for them again, and it would be nice to run it on their laptop.
Thanks, Gerry
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2023 10:05:09 GMT -5
I managed to run some sweeps and get filters setup for the XMC-2 but had to abandon the MAC laptop and track down a Windows laptop. I got a low signal-to-noise error when running on the MAC and Damon at Emotiva went the extra mile to confirm it was all set correctly and should have worked. We had the latest MAC OS and the latest DIRAC version. I am still not sure if it was the MAC OS or the USB converter cable needed to connect to the MAC. We tried 2 one was a MAC branded cable but still got the errors. I am curious if any of the MAC users needed a particular USB A to MAC cable or if that is not the issue. I just installed Dirac 3.7.2 on a MacBook Air running Sonoma and it works fine using a Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter. This is a first install of Dirac on this computer so I was able to see all the first time popups in Dirac and go through setup of the mic after choosing it in computer settings. For the UMIK-1 mic I needed to first choose the mic and then adjust the INPUT VOLUME in SOUND from the default setting of 50% and adjust it to 100%.
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 11:37:12 GMT -5
I managed to run some sweeps and get filters setup for the XMC-2 but had to abandon the MAC laptop and track down a Windows laptop. I got a low signal-to-noise error when running on the MAC and Damon at Emotiva went the extra mile to confirm it was all set correctly and should have worked. We had the latest MAC OS and the latest DIRAC version. I am still not sure if it was the MAC OS or the USB converter cable needed to connect to the MAC. We tried 2 one was a MAC branded cable but still got the errors. I am curious if any of the MAC users needed a particular USB A to MAC cable or if that is not the issue. I just installed Dirac 3.7.2 on a MacBook Air running Sonoma and it works fine using a Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter. This is a first install of Dirac on this computer so I was able to see all the first time popups in Dirac and go through setup of the mic after choosing it in computer settings. For the UMIK-1 mic I needed to first choose the mic and then adjust the INPUT VOLUME in SOUND from the default setting of 50% and adjust it to 100%. That is interesting, your adapter looks like the one I was using, except multi. This is the one I used.
It all seemed to go well in setting mic and master levels as well as all speaker levels, but when I ran a sweep I would get a Low signal-to-noise Level error. We tried all the suggested setting to bypass the error, but nothing worked.
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2023 11:53:42 GMT -5
I just installed Dirac 3.7.2 on a MacBook Air running Sonoma and it works fine using a Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter. This is a first install of Dirac on this computer so I was able to see all the first time popups in Dirac and go through setup of the mic after choosing it in computer settings. For the UMIK-1 mic I needed to first choose the mic and then adjust the INPUT VOLUME in SOUND from the default setting of 50% and adjust it to 100%. That is interesting, your adapter looks like the one I was using, except multi. This is the one I used.
It all seemed to go well in setting mic and master levels as well as all speaker levels, but when I ran a sweep I would get a Low signal-to-noise Level error. We tried all the suggested setting to bypass the error, but nothing worked.
Which mic are you using?
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 12:45:34 GMT -5
That is interesting, your adapter looks like the one I was using, except multi. This is the one I used.
It all seemed to go well in setting mic and master levels as well as all speaker levels, but when I ran a sweep I would get a Low signal-to-noise Level error. We tried all the suggested setting to bypass the error, but nothing worked.
Which mic are you using? The UMIK-1
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 12:57:14 GMT -5
Sorry, that is not correct. We used the mic the XMC-2 came with, I believe it is an emm1.
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Post by thompson12 on Nov 30, 2023 13:04:39 GMT -5
Sorry, that is not correct. We used the mic the XMC-2 came with, I believe it is an emm1. And your using the cable that came with it? Mitch
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 13:14:01 GMT -5
Sorry, that is not correct. We used the mic the XMC-2 came with, I believe it is an emm1. And your using the cable that came with it? Mitch Yes, it all worked fine when we switched to Windows, so it seems the mic was ok?
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 13:17:45 GMT -5
And your using the cable that came with it? Mitch Yes, it all worked fine when we switched to Windows, so it seems the mic was ok? I just got back to the person who I was helping. The version of OS was Monterey 12.6.7 so not the latest at all.
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2023 13:44:28 GMT -5
Sorry, that is not correct. We used the mic the XMC-2 came with, I believe it is an emm1. Ok, I just tested using my Emm-1 and had no issues with signal to noise using the same adapter I used above. MacOS shouldn't matter, "shouldn't", but 'ya never know with some iterations. Apple isn't perfect either. Do you happen to know which channel(s) had the signal to noise error? That could help with diagnosing what's going on. So, if you know, what were the settings in Volume Calibration for the speaker channels and subwoofer channel(s)? (I'll guess it's a subwoofer channel.) I use about -24dB for my speakers and -18dB for my subs. This is so during Measurement, the subwoofers will be at the same sound level as speakers during the sweeps. Otherwise, the subwoofers will play the sweeps at a lower volume level, -6dB vs the volume level of the speaker channels. This is just how Dirac operates.
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 14:09:48 GMT -5
Sorry, that is not correct. We used the mic the XMC-2 came with, I believe it is an emm1. Ok, I just tested using my Emm-1 and had no issues with signal to noise using the same adapter I used above. MacOS shouldn't matter, "shouldn't", but 'ya never know with some iterations. Apple isn't perfect either. Do you happen to know which channel(s) had the signal to noise error? That could help with diagnosing what's going on. So, if you know, what were the settings in Volume Calibration for the speaker channels and subwoofer channel(s)? (I'll guess it's a subwoofer channel.) I use about -24dB for my speakers and -18dB for my subs. This is so during Measurement, the subwoofers will be at the same sound level as speakers during the sweeps. Otherwise, the subwoofers will play the sweeps at a lower volume level, -6dB vs the volume level of the speaker channels. This is just how Dirac operates. No subs, just a 5 channel system. It was the first speaker we measured, I think it was the rear right surround. I used the master volume to set the back surround furthest from the mic to -20 then set all the others off their level adjustment.
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2023 14:27:44 GMT -5
No subs, just a 5 channel system. It was the first speaker we measured, I think it was the rear right surround. I used the master volume to set the back surround furthest from the mic to -20 then set all the others off their level adjustment. Please take a look at the linked post. Disregard the subwoofer, but please let me know how your settings differ, if they do. emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1115416
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 15:02:48 GMT -5
Here's an example of how I setup Dirac Volume Calibration. I changed my setup to a 5.1 system to make things easy to follow. All Levels in the processor are set at default 0.0dB for all channels prior to running Dirac. Distance is not available with a Dirac filter so this won't matter. 1. This shows the default values in Volume Calibration. View Attachment2. Change Mic Gain to 100%. View Attachment3. Play pink noise on each channel for a few seconds each, just long enough for the level meter to settle. After playing the noise on all channels it's not necessary to play the noise to make adjustments in the next step. View Attachment4. Adjust Master Output so that the channel with the lowest output is at the level that works for the system. In my system this works well at -24dB. View Attachment5. And finally, bring all the other SPEAKER channel levels DOWN to match the channel with the lowest output. But the SUBWOOFER channel is adjusted to be +6dB higher than the rest, at -18dB. This is to make the subwoofer level match pretty close to the speaker levels when Dirac is Measuring. View AttachmentIt should be noted that my Surround Left and Surround Rear Left at both much farther away from the MLP, which is why they are always the lowest output level when doing this. In real time this process takes less than a minute for a 5.1 setup to be adjusted in Vol Cal, and less than 2 minutes for a 7.1.4 system setup. Yes, those settings are about where we ended up. The speakers we set at -20 and mic gain at about -40 with the room quiet. I like your procedure better than the one I used. I used the master volume to set what I thought should have been the speaker with the lowest level at MLP to -20 then used pink noise and speaker volume tab to get the rest as close as possible to -20.
We tried bringing the speaker levels up some, but I did not want to take any chances with the tweeters.
The Speakers are Emotiva T2+ and C2+ up front and T1 in the back. The volume in the rooms seemed loud enough, and I stepped out of the room during the sweeps.
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2023 15:32:35 GMT -5
Yes, those settings are about where we ended up. The speakers we set at -20 and mic gain at about -40 with the room quiet. I like your procedure better than the one I used. I used the master volume to set what I thought should have been the speaker with the lowest level at MLP to -20 then used pink noise and speaker volume tab to get the rest as close as possible to -20. We tried bringing the speaker levels up some, but I did not want to take any chances with the tweeters. The Speakers are Emotiva T2+ and C2+ up front and T1 in the back. The volume in the rooms seemed loud enough, and I stepped out of the room during the sweeps. I haven't found an actual real life reason yet for the mic to be at anything other than 100%. Going over 100% is bad because of it being digital gain, and quality suffers. Any less Mic Gain would mean that the Master Output will be higher, which means that the actual output level of the sweeps is higher - because the mic is being set so it cannot hear as well. Now, if somebody's home theater has several running laundry machines in it and the ambient noise level must be overcome with SUPER loud sweep levels, then I could see where the Mic Gain would need to be lowered and the Master Output raise to make the sweeps play so loud as to overcome room sounds. Otherwise, 100% seems logical to me. Master Output, as can be seen in my images, is pretty low, but the sweeps play close to 90dB SPL. With higher Master Output level the sweeps will play even louder. Also, the channel with the weakest output is left at 0.0dB, full output, and all the rest are lowered to match except subwoofers (which doesn't apply in your case) which are set to be -6dB vs the Speaker channel levels. So in my case I set Speakers for -24dB and subwoofers to -18dB, and this makes the sweeps play at the same SPL for all channels. Odd, but true (Dick Van Dyke episode). It's all about setting things so that the mic can hear well enough, and the sweeps can play loud enough - but not too loud, and the room noise doesn't interfere more than necessary.
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 16:04:44 GMT -5
Yes, those settings are about where we ended up. The speakers we set at -20 and mic gain at about -40 with the room quiet. I like your procedure better than the one I used. I used the master volume to set what I thought should have been the speaker with the lowest level at MLP to -20 then used pink noise and speaker volume tab to get the rest as close as possible to -20. We tried bringing the speaker levels up some, but I did not want to take any chances with the tweeters. The Speakers are Emotiva T2+ and C2+ up front and T1 in the back. The volume in the rooms seemed loud enough, and I stepped out of the room during the sweeps. I haven't found an actual real life reason yet for the mic to be at anything other than 100%. Going over 100% is bad because of it being digital gain, and quality suffers. Any less Mic Gain would mean that the Master Output will be higher, which means that the actual output level of the sweeps is higher - because the mic is being set so it cannot hear as well. Now, if somebody's home theater has several running laundry machines in it and the ambient noise level must be overcome with SUPER loud sweep levels, then I could see where the Mic Gain would need to be lowered and the Master Output raise to make the sweeps play so loud as to overcome room sounds. Otherwise, 100% seems logical to me. Master Output, as can be seen in my images, is pretty low, but the sweeps play close to 90dB SPL. With higher Master Output level the sweeps will play even louder. Also, the channel with the weakest output is left at 0.0dB, full output, and all the rest are lowered to match except subwoofers (which doesn't apply in your case) which are set to be -6dB vs the Speaker channel levels. So in my case I set Speakers for -24dB and subwoofers to -18dB, and this makes the sweeps play at the same SPL for all channels. Odd, but true (Dick Van Dyke episode). It's all about setting things so that the mic can hear well enough, and the sweeps can play loud enough - but not too loud, and the room noise doesn't interfere more than necessary. I did not have an SPL meter with me and did not think of checking the level of the sweeps. I could have used my phone app to get some idea of what they were if I had thought of that.
In the end, using windows solved the problem, but it would be nice to sort out why it would not work on the Mac. They were going to upgrade the Mac to the latest version, so I may give it another try next time I am up that way.
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2023 18:30:49 GMT -5
In the end, using windows solved the problem, but it would be nice to sort out why it would not work on the Mac. They were going to upgrade the Mac to the latest version, so I may give it another try next time I am up that way. I doubt the OS version is a factor, but I guess there's a chance. I'd be more interested in knowing how the INPUT for the mic was setup, specifically, the Input Volume. On my MacBook Air it was initially set at 50%, default. This would have a huge impact on using Dirac. Please let us know how things work after the OS update.
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Post by oldwood on Nov 30, 2023 20:48:46 GMT -5
In the end, using windows solved the problem, but it would be nice to sort out why it would not work on the Mac. They were going to upgrade the Mac to the latest version, so I may give it another try next time I am up that way. I doubt the OS version is a factor, but I guess there's a chance. I'd be more interested in knowing how the INPUT for the mic was setup, specifically, the Input Volume. On my MacBook Air it was initially set at 50%, default. This would have a huge impact on using Dirac. Please let us know how things work after the OS update. I did look at the setting I but don't remember what it was set at. I will post back if I give it another go.
Thanks, Gerry
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,156
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Post by KeithL on Dec 4, 2023 15:29:39 GMT -5
As far as we can tell, in at least some situations, some USB-C to USB-A adapters work and others do not. (I don't have any specific details about which ones work.) HOWEVER... The problem we're talking about here seems to be that the adapter is causing delay, or perhaps inconsistent delay, to the test signal. Therefore I would expect a fancy adapter, with multiple outputs or inputs, to have more stuff going on inside, and so to be more likely to be problematic. The adapter that oldwood linked to is an Apple-branded $25 adapter. This leads me to suspect that it might be in that category. Cheap simple ones cost $10 for a 4-pack on Amazon. I'm kind of thinking I'd try one of the cheap simple ones. It's also possible that there are issues with the USB-C ports on certain computers... It's even possible that certain computers may be more particular about which adapter you use than others. BUT we have definitely heard of situations where one specific adapter worked and another did not... (Unfortunately many of the really cheap ones are literally "no-name" to the point where you cannot even specify which one you have.) I just installed Dirac 3.7.2 on a MacBook Air running Sonoma and it works fine using a Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter. This is a first install of Dirac on this computer so I was able to see all the first time popups in Dirac and go through setup of the mic after choosing it in computer settings. For the UMIK-1 mic I needed to first choose the mic and then adjust the INPUT VOLUME in SOUND from the default setting of 50% and adjust it to 100%. That is interesting, your adapter looks like the one I was using, except multi. This is the one I used. It all seemed to go well in setting mic and master levels as well as all speaker levels, but when I ran a sweep I would get a Low signal-to-noise Level error. We tried all the suggested setting to bypass the error, but nothing worked.
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