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Post by yellowbalt on Sept 28, 2024 10:28:34 GMT -5
We've gone around the block here ... let's see if I understand the problem ... - The problem is NOT that the mic is not picking up the volume calibration sound.
- The problem is that sometimes the volume calibration sound comes out WAY too loud, and pulling the sliders down does not help ...it's still way too loud on all channels
- You have done a Factory Reset and reboot.
So if this is correct, then the problem is the same issue I had on Tuesday. The problem is not in the computer or the microphone. So I would suggest another Factory Reset. If that doesn't work, call Emotiva Support.
And the sliders don't work at all, so they won't move apparently. This is why I think there's a computer issue. During Master-Volume calibration where you setup speaker levels. Sliders doesn't work at all Sliders works not affecting the volume |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2024 10:37:54 GMT -5
And the sliders don't work at all, so they won't move apparently. This is why I think there's a computer issue. Sliders works not affecting the volume Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, this is very different! This one I've never encountered. |
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Post by marcl on Sept 28, 2024 11:00:25 GMT -5
And the sliders don't work at all, so they won't move apparently. This is why I think there's a computer issue. Sliders works not affecting the volume The real specific scenario I saw was that with mic gain at normal 100% and with master gain at the default at startup -38db ... the volume of every channel was loud ... like, I had my SPL meter out and it hit 106db. The sliders worked somewhat, but pulling them all the way down the volume was still too loud, and on the sub channel it was distorted. so then I pulled the master gain down and it was too loud and still distorted until it was nearly at the bottom. The sliders did very little and the master nearly at the bottom was still not a solution because the sound was distorted and raising any slider it instantly got too loud again. So if you're seeing something like this, and if two Factory Resets and reboots don't fix it, then there's nothing else you can do but call Emotiva. Sorry for going round and round here, but this is a very unusual situation. First time I've had it happen in 6 years. |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2024 11:02:40 GMT -5
Sliders works not affecting the volume The real specific scenario I saw was that with mic gain at normal 100% and with master gain at the default at startup -38db ... the volume of every channel was loud ... like, I had my SPL meter out and it hit 106db. The sliders worked somewhat, but pulling them all the way down the volume was still too loud, and on the sub channel it was distorted. so then I pulled the master gain down and it was too loud and still distorted until it was nearly at the bottom. The sliders did very little and the master nearly at the bottom was still not a solution because the sound was distorted and raising any slider it instantly got too loud again. So if you're seeing something like this, and if two Factory Resets and reboots don't fix it, then there's nothing else you can do but call Emotiva. Sorry for going round and round here, but this is a very unusual situation. First time I've had it happen in 6 years. Then maybe it's Dirac Live. I don't see how the processor could be involved, since Dirac Live is in total control of the outputs. |
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Post by marcl on Sept 28, 2024 11:23:58 GMT -5
The real specific scenario I saw was that with mic gain at normal 100% and with master gain at the default at startup -38db ... the volume of every channel was loud ... like, I had my SPL meter out and it hit 106db. The sliders worked somewhat, but pulling them all the way down the volume was still too loud, and on the sub channel it was distorted. so then I pulled the master gain down and it was too loud and still distorted until it was nearly at the bottom. The sliders did very little and the master nearly at the bottom was still not a solution because the sound was distorted and raising any slider it instantly got too loud again. So if you're seeing something like this, and if two Factory Resets and reboots don't fix it, then there's nothing else you can do but call Emotiva. Sorry for going round and round here, but this is a very unusual situation. First time I've had it happen in 6 years. Then maybe it's Dirac Live. I don't see how the processor could be involved, since Dirac Live is in total control of the outputs. The only thing that fixed it for me was a Factory Reset. This is similar to last December - not related to Dirac - when I'd reboot the processor and really loud white noise came from all the channels. Didn't do it every time, but a Factory Reset fixed it temporarily. I had to send the unit back. Since Dirac Live and the processor are only connected over ethernet through the EDNIB, the question is ... does Dirac tell the processor what calibration sound to play and how loud (based on the slider positions)? ... or, does Dirac generate the actual calibration sound in the PC software, and send it over ethernet at the volume specified by the sliders, and the processor just plays it? I believe (based on some vague memory) that it is the former. Only Keithl knows for sure  |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Sept 28, 2024 17:34:02 GMT -5
yellowbalt if your laptop is connected to the processor via HDMI, then I have some other questions and observations. But you're using WiFi, correct? Yesterday I began trying to use Dirac for the first time in 9 years on a Windows computer. I don't miss Windows OS. I'm trying to duplicate your issue and marcl's issue, but haven't had that issue yet.
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Post by yellowbalt on Sept 29, 2024 19:23:32 GMT -5
yellowbalt if your laptop is connected to the processor via HDMI, then I have some other questions and observations. But you're using WiFi, correct? Yesterday I began trying to use Dirac for the first time in 9 years on a Windows computer. I don't miss Windows OS. I'm trying to duplicate your issue and marcl 's issue, but haven't had that issue yet. Laptop is just connected to wifi yes. |
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Post by marcl on Oct 1, 2024 6:15:46 GMT -5
... headsup ttocs !
helpdesk.dirac.com/en
Everyone who upgrades: Remember to uninstall your previous version before installing the new version!
Dirac Live 3.10.10 Software Changelog
Features
None
Bug fixes
Fixed an issue where the new measurement qualification algorithm was not taking into account the audio device driver’s flagging and counting of recording discontinuities. The potential effect for users updating from 3.10.3 is that measurements that were previously approved could now be marked as imprecise (with the exclamation mark). However, this will only affect a small subset of users having tested this new measurement qualification functionality.
Fixed an issue where Dirac Live 3.10.3 could not be installed on MacOS 12 or older. It now installs on MacOS versions back to 10.14.
Fixed a problem in Volume Calibration where the stimuli gain could be reset to maximum instead of 0dB.
Fixed a problem on MacOS where window size and position was not remembered between sessions.
Known issues
Filter export to devices from Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer take longer time than usual, but it eventually completes.
It is not possible to use the Qt installer maintenancetool to uninstall the Dirac Live application on Intel-based Macs running MacOS 15.
Workaround: It is possible to install a newer version of Dirac Live without first uninstalling.
Download
Windows: artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/win64/diraclive-v3.10.10-setup.exe
macOS: artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/macos/diraclive-v3.10.10-setup.zip
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 1, 2024 7:25:45 GMT -5
... headsup ttocs !helpdesk.dirac.com/en
Everyone who upgrades: Remember to uninstall your previous version before installing the new version!Dirac Live 3.10.10 Software ChangelogBug fixesFixed a problem in Volume Calibration where the stimuli gain could be reset to maximum instead of 0dB.Known issuesIt is not possible to use the Qt installer maintenancetool to uninstall the Dirac Live application on Intel-based Macs running MacOS 15.Workaround: It is possible to install a newer version of Dirac Live without first uninstalling. Could this, in RED, be the issue you and yellowbalt had/have? (Stimuli are the pink noise tones and sweeps in Dirac.) My old Mac mini 2014 Intel is running 12.7.2 Monterey, it's my newest Mac mini M2 Pro that is the one running macOS 15 (I knew one of the Macs was running 15, just didn't recall which one). And I have always uninstalled a previous version of Dirac, except for when I was trying to duplicate an issue for someone else who stated he did not uninstall. It has never been a good idea to not uninstall this app before installing the new version. But it's good to know about this issue for when I do need to update the app on the mini running 15 in case it might also affect M2 processors! |
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Post by marcl on Oct 9, 2024 11:21:52 GMT -5
Well said ... as usual ...
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Oct 9, 2024 11:49:29 GMT -5
Well said ... as usual ... So what I get from that is, Dirac is a Mixed Phase correction system (this has been pointed out many times, but hasn't been pointed out enough or as loudly as is apparently needed, so, . . . ), Dirac is a Mixed Phase correction system! PEQ is not. Using multiple mic positions is not just for making more area to be similar in response, but also to help Dirac to not OVERCORRECT in any one single spot. It's this possible overcorrection that I haven't thought much of, until this video. I knew it was possible but disregarded it as being a minor point. Note to self, it's more important than I knew. Point of fact full disclosure, I often do single mic position Dirac runs for testing, and use multi position runs for expected sound quality improvement. Marc, do you happen to know how many taps Dirac recommends? |
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Post by marcl on Oct 9, 2024 12:17:42 GMT -5
Well said ... as usual ... So what I get from that is, Dirac is a Mixed Phase correction system (this has been pointed out many times, but hasn't been pointed out enough or as loudly as is apparently needed, so, . . . ), Dirac is a Mixed Phase correction system! PEQ is not. Using multiple mic positions is not just for making more area to be similar in response, but also to help Dirac to not OVERCORRECT in any one single spot. It's this possible overcorrection that I haven't thought much of, until this video. I knew it was possible but disregarded it as being a minor point. Note to self, it's more important than I knew. Point of fact full disclosure, I often do single mic position Dirac runs for testing, and use multi position runs for expected sound quality improvement. Marc, do you happen to know how many taps Dirac recommends? Let's say it again 10 times ... because, in my experience, NOBODY IS LISTENING!  To be a little more specific around the reason for multiple measurements .... this is how Dirac can tell the difference between minimum phase anomalies and non-minimum phase anomalies. It will NOT try to correct non-minimum phase anomalies. And that is why multiple measurements are not used for an arithmetic average. It also explains why a single measurement sounds bad ... because it can't identify the non-minimum phase anomalies and so it corrects everything. Notice the frequency response plot for a single measurement ... a little bumpy below the Schroeder Frequency, and dead flat above ... IIR filters below, FIR filters above. I sure can tell the difference between a single point correction and a proper multiple point (at least 6) correction. Not sure if I can describe it, but the single point sounds kind of constricted and weird. As for "taps" .... Dirac uses both IIR and FIR filters. IIR filters are the kind used in Emotiva's PEQ and in the regular (not FIR) PEQ in a miniDSP. IIR filters have their parameters defined as "Biquad coefficients". FIR filters - which Dirac uses also, mainly above the Schroeder Frequency - have their parameters defined as "FIR Taps". Dirac doesn't "recommend" a number of FIR taps ... it depends on the implementation in the processor. More Biquads and more FIR taps would correlate to a need for more processing power. Looking at the Dirac settings backup file, it looks like our processors have 28 Biquads and 1000 FIR taps in each of multiple sections of the backup file .... I would assume they would be per speaker, but I haven't counted all of them to verify that. p.s. I believe I heard once that Storm uses a lot more than 1000 taps in their FIR filters. |
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Post by webmst007 on Oct 9, 2024 17:10:45 GMT -5
Perhaps this is a good time to get some comments from Keith regarding the contrast between G3P and G4P processor power and how this directly relates to how the new units manage Dirac processing.
As people who live in the major bush fire prone area of the Monaro in the Snowy Mountains South East New South Wales Australia,
Our thoughts today go out to all those who are in the path of the Hurricane Milton over the next days. Stay safe and good luck.
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kcdc
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by kcdc on Oct 12, 2024 17:07:59 GMT -5
Is there a reason why Dirac won't allow re-measurement of a single speaker, instead of being forced to redo all 16 speakers if a random noise happens accidentally after speaker 14. Definitely miss that from MulteqX. Made life sweeter. Or please tell me I'm an idiot and the feature exists somewhere.
Or just let me measure per-speaker as an option.
There is a good reason. To remeasure a single speaker you would have to accurately place the mic in 9 ... 13 .... 17 positions that match the positions that the other speakers were measured? You can't do that. If you save the measurements as a project before going to Filter Design you can reload them and retake measurement positions (all speakers) ... but it is impossible to retake a single speaker. Yet that's not why it's an option on MqX, it's to remeasure a specific speaker while that mic is still in it's current position... specifically because of what I mention, a random noise causing that specific speaker's invalid measurement... I understand that would allow the user to just do what they want, but at this level of software, that would be understood and stated to begin with. It's not a difficult option to implement and save users with imperfect environments.. like me and many of us... a lot of time re-calibrating. I do respect you and all here that provide so much info to everyone but this doesn't properly answer my question. |
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Post by marcl on Oct 13, 2024 6:50:36 GMT -5
There is a good reason. To remeasure a single speaker you would have to accurately place the mic in 9 ... 13 .... 17 positions that match the positions that the other speakers were measured? You can't do that. If you save the measurements as a project before going to Filter Design you can reload them and retake measurement positions (all speakers) ... but it is impossible to retake a single speaker. Yet that's not why it's an option on MqX, it's to remeasure a specific speaker while that mic is still in it's current position... specifically because of what I mention, a random noise causing that specific speaker's invalid measurement... I understand that would allow the user to just do what they want, but at this level of software, that would be understood and stated to begin with. It's not a difficult option to implement and save users with imperfect environments.. like me and many of us... a lot of time re-calibrating. I do respect you and all here that provide so much info to everyone but this doesn't properly answer my question. I understand what you're saying. It's a question for Dirac to answer because Emotiva has no control over their app. It works the same for everyone. The difficulty with measurements in Dirac is that everyone's system responds differently to the settings due to speaker and amp efficiencies and how extensive resonances happen to be. What Dirac does with the measurements is very different from what Audyssey does. Yes, I have gotten into the middle of a calibration and one mic position causes one speaker to clip. I can sometimes go back to Volume calibration and turn it down a little remeasure the position - all speakers in that mic position - and that doesn't take much time. Usually I go back and start over. But ... I guess I'm the exception since I've literally done hundreds of Dirac calibrations and it's a dedicated couple hours when I do it ... including not just measurement and filter design but also a post verification and level checks and sometimes going back and tweaking Curtains or Target Curves with the same set of measurements. |
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Post by marcl on Oct 25, 2024 9:04:39 GMT -5
Talking about DLBC and MSO
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lgjr
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
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Post by lgjr on Oct 26, 2024 9:41:09 GMT -5
Hello,
Downloaded 3.10.10 and tried to run Dirac. I uninstalled the old version and installed the most recent. All went well. Opened Dirac, connectED to the RMC1 and tried to level match all the speakers. Sound came from all speakers, but; the meters didn't respond for the speakers to see what db they were set to. The volume would change when I moved the sliders, but; no indication of what level the were at. The mic would respond and show what level it was at. Downloaded to another computer and everything worked. What setting could be wrong on the first computer?
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Post by marcl on Oct 26, 2024 10:26:28 GMT -5
Hello, Downloaded 3.10.10 and tried to run Dirac. I uninstalled the old version and installed the most recent. All went well. Opened Dirac, connectED to the RMC1 and tried to level match all the speakers. Sound came from all speakers, but; the meters didn't respond for the speakers to see what db they were set to. The volume would change when I moved the sliders, but; no indication of what level the were at. The mic would respond and show what level it was at. Downloaded to another computer and everything worked. What setting could be wrong on the first computer? It's possible that enabling Exclusive Mode would work. Look at the release notes for 3.10.3 and they describe how to do that. Sometimes it's just a matter of restarting the application. I've had it happen that no sound came out for Volume Calibration and restarting the app fixed it. |
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lgjr
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
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Post by lgjr on Oct 26, 2024 14:35:50 GMT -5
Okay, thanks for the advice. I restarted multiple times to no avail. Dirac has been hit and miss on my newer windows 11 laptop.
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Post by lhracing on Oct 26, 2024 16:09:32 GMT -5
Okay, thanks for the advice. I restarted multiple times to no avail. Dirac has been hit and miss on my newer windows 11 laptop. When I have had similar problems I have had to reboot my computer and restart Dirac, that has worked for me. |
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