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Post by kahodges1721 on Jul 4, 2020 10:16:36 GMT -5
Odd question. I built a set of 1299s with a 1099 center channel. Everything is wired perfectly with no crossed wires anywhere Iβve triple checked the crossover and wiring to each speaker (per diagram on board) I ran impulse response sweeps after each crossover point. First was at 50hz, then 500hz and then 4000hz. The impulse response in REW is backwards for the 1299s vs the rest of the speakers showing it is 180 out of phase. I can easily swap the wires internally to bring them in phase but it got me thinking. Without REW and a mic I would of never known this. When we load up Dirac 3 can Dirac account for this? I know it plays with phasing but I wasnβt sure if it could swap the phasing of a speaker. Tried to read into it but couldnβt find anything
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Post by marcl on Jul 4, 2020 10:30:51 GMT -5
Odd question. I built a set of 1299s with a 1099 center channel. Everything is wired perfectly with no crossed wires anywhere Iβve triple checked the crossover and wiring to each speaker (per diagram on board) I ran impulse response sweeps after each crossover point. First was at 50hz, then 500hz and then 4000hz. The impulse response in REW is backwards for the 1299s vs the rest of the speakers showing it is 180 out of phase. I can easily swap the wires internally to bring them in phase but it got me thinking. Without REW and a mic I would of never known this. When we load up Dirac 3 can Dirac account for this? I know it plays with phasing but I wasnβt sure if it could swap the phasing of a speaker. Tried to read into it but couldnβt find anything Dirac Full on the XMC-1 did correct phase. My center channel initial impulse response was opposite the other speakers and after calibration it matched. |
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Post by kahodges1721 on Jul 4, 2020 10:43:12 GMT -5
Odd question. I built a set of 1299s with a 1099 center channel. Everything is wired perfectly with no crossed wires anywhere Iβve triple checked the crossover and wiring to each speaker (per diagram on board) I ran impulse response sweeps after each crossover point. First was at 50hz, then 500hz and then 4000hz. The impulse response in REW is backwards for the 1299s vs the rest of the speakers showing it is 180 out of phase. I can easily swap the wires internally to bring them in phase but it got me thinking. Without REW and a mic I would of never known this. When we load up Dirac 3 can Dirac account for this? I know it plays with phasing but I wasnβt sure if it could swap the phasing of a speaker. Tried to read into it but couldnβt find anything Dirac Full on the XMC-1 did correct phase. My center channel initial impulse response was opposite the other speakers and after calibration it matched. Ok cool. I know it does phase control but didnβt know if it was limited or 180. I plan to swap the Wires anyways since I can swap them internally and it wonβt play with my OCD but without knowing I was curious if Dirac could account for it. Thanks for the info |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 6, 2020 10:03:23 GMT -5
A new version of Dirac Live was released today 3.0.2, link in the 2nd Post (also updating acronym post for new Dirac preferences).
Fixes
Improve LFE correction in DLBC
Level bar logic incorrect when master volume is reset
Select new arrangement makes all measurement disappear
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 6, 2020 10:20:37 GMT -5
I'm going to give you a big - and sort of obvious - hint here. Room correction will ALWAYS do a better job if you give it a better starting point.
Therefore, the fewer "problems" / "errors" / "inconsistencies" / "things you give it to think about" ... The better job it's going to do on the corrections that remain ... There is no benefit to be obtained by requiring your room correction software to detect and correct a simple flipped phase... And it uses up resources that could probably be doing something else... And the same logic applies to any sort of room issues ...
The better your starting point ... The better your end result will be ...
Dirac Full on the XMC-1 did correct phase. My center channel initial impulse response was opposite the other speakers and after calibration it matched. Ok cool. I know it does phase control but didnβt know if it was limited or 180. I plan to swap the Wires anyways since I can swap them internally and it wonβt play with my OCD but without knowing I was curious if Dirac could account for it. Thanks for the info |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 6, 2020 10:24:07 GMT -5
And, incidentally, the feedback from the beta test group has been quite positive ... And we will probably be allowing them to share it with the rest of you shortly ... |
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Post by kahodges1721 on Jul 6, 2020 10:34:53 GMT -5
I'm going to give you a big - and sort of obvious - hint here. Room correction will ALWAYS do a better job if you give it a better starting point.
Therefore, the fewer "problems" / "errors" / "inconsistencies" / "things you give it to think about" ... The better job it's going to do on the corrections that remain ... There is no benefit to be obtained by requiring your room correction software to detect and correct a simple flipped phase... And it uses up resources that could probably be doing something else... And the same logic applies to any sort of room issues ...
The better your starting point ... The better your end result will be ...
Ok cool. I know it does phase control but didnβt know if it was limited or 180. I plan to swap the Wires anyways since I can swap them internally and it wonβt play with my OCD but without knowing I was curious if Dirac could account for it. Thanks for the info Absolutely! Thatβs the main reason I do my minidsp sub corrections before running Dirac or audyssey. I was actually just playing around with REW when I noticed the phasing issue and thought that most people likely do not look at this and if Dirac would catch it and swap it or just add delay to that speaker so it becomes βin phaseβ but not bc itβs being activated a tad later if that makes sense. If the latter then it becomes very important as you pointed out to do some pre testing before Dirac to get things prepared for sure |
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Post by marcl on Jul 6, 2020 11:17:10 GMT -5
I'm going to give you a big - and sort of obvious - hint here. Room correction will ALWAYS do a better job if you give it a better starting point.
Therefore, the fewer "problems" / "errors" / "inconsistencies" / "things you give it to think about" ... The better job it's going to do on the corrections that remain ... There is no benefit to be obtained by requiring your room correction software to detect and correct a simple flipped phase... And it uses up resources that could probably be doing something else... And the same logic applies to any sort of room issues ...
The better your starting point ... The better your end result will be ...
Ok cool. I know it does phase control but didnβt know if it was limited or 180. I plan to swap the Wires anyways since I can swap them internally and it wonβt play with my OCD but without knowing I was curious if Dirac could account for it. Thanks for the info No argument there! Get the wiring right, place the speakers best you can, treat the room best you can ... then let digital room correction finish the job the best IT can. What should really be interesting is how DBC does the phase alignment for all the pairs of speakers and then aligns them with the subs. I had a weird situation in my room ... a reflection that was fooling Dirac and causing it to flip the phase of my left and right speakers. Fortunately I could see it in the Dirac and subsequent REW measurements and correct the problem. |
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jul 9, 2020 20:40:47 GMT -5
I saw a post on Emotiva's Instagram account that had a TON of boxes going out for shipment to customers and actually commented that I sure hoped that my Dirac interface was part of those shipments. That was posted two days ago. And I'm close enough to drive to Emotiva HQ and back in one day (and would gladly do so to pick up my interface!) but have not seen any signs of a FedEx/UPS delivery.  Already got a Cat6 cable connected to the switch port I'll be using for that guy. Just waiting for the ole' Raspberry Pi to show up! Maybe they'll bump me up to the front of the queue if I let them keep the included switch! (hint, hint) |
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Post by megash0n on Jul 11, 2020 8:18:05 GMT -5
I can't recall where these debates were occurring, but the interface is clearly a Pi 4 in Damon's YouTube video. I think someone else pointed this out before me, but others have insisted it isn't a Pi or a Pi 4. Just look at the interface. It uses USB C power and has 2 micro HDMI Ports on the side. No other Pi has this layout. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 11, 2020 8:54:34 GMT -5
I can't recall where these debates were occurring, but the interface is clearly a Pi 4 in Damon's YouTube video. I think someone else pointed this out before me, but others have insisted it isn't a Pi or a Pi 4. Just look at the interface. It uses USB C power and has 2 micro HDMI Ports on the side. No other Pi has this layout. Seems likely to me - the main thing that's special will be the code to take the filters and write it to the processor. If that's the case, folks will be able to use the PI as a roon-ready endpoint by just swapping out the MicroSD card to one with the appropriate OS on it - like RoPieee or others. Mark |
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Post by Hair Nick on Jul 12, 2020 20:12:45 GMT -5
We are determining a rollout timeline internally since we feel extremely comfortable with Dirac running on the processor thanks to our amazing beta team. There are things behind the scenes that we have to finalize before we hit the button. Thank you all for you patience.
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Post by marcl on Jul 13, 2020 12:14:45 GMT -5
So here's a rare "on topic" topic ... Dirac Live bass management strategies without Dirac Bass Control. Sure, we may get DBC someday but it won't be any time soon and until then we can get a TON of value out of Dirac. Impulse Response correction is important and a unique feature. But the equalization is what concerns us most, and honestly it's the only part that we interact with and can make some decisions about.
Here are issues to think about: If you have more than one sub, Dirac measures them individually and corrects the response individually. Dirac does not measure and correct multiple subs together, nor does it consider full range speakers that can operate in the same range as subs.
I had a couple different ways of dealing with this with the XMC-1, including Y cables and miniDSP. Interested in hearing others' thoughts as we get closer.
Also ... is anyone using separate speakers for bass management and LFE? Is anyone using a sub below 40-50Hz and some other speaker in the mid-upper bass range up to 200Hz in order to get better bass managed response for center and surrounds?
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 13, 2020 12:26:41 GMT -5
So here's a rare "on topic" topic ... Dirac Live bass management strategies without Dirac Bass Control. Sure, we may get DBC someday but it won't be any time soon and until then we can get a TON of value out of Dirac. Impulse Response correction is important and a unique feature. But the equalization is what concerns us most, and honestly it's the only part that we interact with and can make some decisions about. Here are issues to think about: If you have more than one sub, Dirac measures them individually and corrects the response individually. Dirac does not measure and correct multiple subs together, nor does it consider full range speakers that can operate in the same range as subs. I had a couple different ways of dealing with this with the XMC-1, including Y cables and miniDSP. Interested in hearing others' thoughts as we get closer. Also ... is anyone using separate speakers for bass management and LFE? Is anyone using a sub below 40-50Hz and some other speaker in the mid-upper bass range up to 200Hz in order to get better bass managed response for center and surrounds? Question if I may, my towers play down to 20hz, for HT only how do I mix them with my subs while using Dirac? |
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Post by marcl on Jul 13, 2020 13:46:31 GMT -5
So here's a rare "on topic" topic ... Dirac Live bass management strategies without Dirac Bass Control. Sure, we may get DBC someday but it won't be any time soon and until then we can get a TON of value out of Dirac. Impulse Response correction is important and a unique feature. But the equalization is what concerns us most, and honestly it's the only part that we interact with and can make some decisions about. Here are issues to think about: If you have more than one sub, Dirac measures them individually and corrects the response individually. Dirac does not measure and correct multiple subs together, nor does it consider full range speakers that can operate in the same range as subs. I had a couple different ways of dealing with this with the XMC-1, including Y cables and miniDSP. Interested in hearing others' thoughts as we get closer. Also ... is anyone using separate speakers for bass management and LFE? Is anyone using a sub below 40-50Hz and some other speaker in the mid-upper bass range up to 200Hz in order to get better bass managed response for center and surrounds? Question if I may, my towers play down to 20hz, for HT only how do I mix them with my subs while using Dirac? I'm assuming you use the Double Impacts as your L/R for two channel and for HT? Seems like you'd set the Double Impacts as Large and not cross to the sub. The other speakers look like they respond down 40Hz so debatable whether you'd cross them over to the sub, but if you did it would be at 40Hz to maybe get down to 20, right? The sub always gets the LFE with HT, none of that goes to the other speakers. If you just have one sub this is straight forward. Dirac corrects each speaker and the sub and it should work great. If you have more then one sub then you get into the debate of whether to connect them to one sub output with a Y or miniDSP. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 13, 2020 14:04:46 GMT -5
So here's a rare "on topic" topic ... Dirac Live bass management strategies without Dirac Bass Control. Sure, we may get DBC someday but it won't be any time soon and until then we can get a TON of value out of Dirac. Impulse Response correction is important and a unique feature. But the equalization is what concerns us most, and honestly it's the only part that we interact with and can make some decisions about. Here are issues to think about: If you have more than one sub, Dirac measures them individually and corrects the response individually. Dirac does not measure and correct multiple subs together, nor does it consider full range speakers that can operate in the same range as subs. I had a couple different ways of dealing with this with the XMC-1, including Y cables and miniDSP. Interested in hearing others' thoughts as we get closer. Also ... is anyone using separate speakers for bass management and LFE? Is anyone using a sub below 40-50Hz and some other speaker in the mid-upper bass range up to 200Hz in order to get better bass managed response for center and surrounds? This is a good topic, and thank you for bringing it up again. With my XMC-1 I tended to follow the old school βstereoβ bass option for my two channel preset and dual symmetrical subs, and for the HT/Dirac preset both subs set to mono or dual mono. With the RMC Iβm relieved of the stress of choosing stereo and have them both set for dual mono (cabled to the L&R sub outs). However, based on what you and others have written, Iβm going to add a Y cable and try running them as a group (patched to the center out). Iβll probably take some near field and listening position measurements before and after. Iβm hoping Dirac will do a better job dealing with them as a single channel. They are still positioned symmetrically outside of all my front speakers, and thatβs their home. Hopefully Iβll get the Y installed in the next day or so. |
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Post by donh50 on Jul 13, 2020 14:15:52 GMT -5
A Y cable will in general only work if the subs are symmetrically and equally positioned from the MLP otherwise you need some way to adjust the delay/phase of at least one sub so the sound arrives in-phase at the MLP. My subs have phase adjustment, as do some others, but be aware you might need an extra step.
I ave run my subs in stereo and dual-mono and stuck with dual mono. I just don't have enough (if any) source content that actually uses stereo bass in the subwoofer region and getting stereo subs properly integrated was a PITA. If you can't localize the sound so low in frequency, and crossover before you can, I just don't see the point in a practical sense. I ultimately abandoned all hope of stereo when I went to four subs and have not missed it.
DBC is a different beast entirely...
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 13, 2020 14:25:19 GMT -5
A Y cable will in general only work if the subs are symmetrically and equally positioned from the MLP otherwise you need some way to adjust the delay/phase of at least one sub so the sound arrives in-phase at the MLP. My subs have phase adjustment, as do some others, but be aware you might need an extra step. ... . My subs are as symmetrical as my OCD brain can get them, and they not only have separate phase and polarity settings, but an app to adjust them remotely! |
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 13, 2020 14:44:10 GMT -5
Question if I may, my towers play down to 20hz, for HT only how do I mix them with my subs while using Dirac? I'm assuming you use the Double Impacts as your L/R for two channel and for HT?Β Seems like you'd set the Double Impacts as Large and not cross to the sub.Β The other speakers look like they respond down 40Hz so debatable whether you'd cross them over to the sub, but if you did it would be at 40Hz to maybe get down to 20, right?Β The sub always gets the LFE with HT, none of that goes to the other speakers.Β If you just have one sub this is straight forward.Β Dirac corrects each speaker and the sub and it should work great.Β If you have more then one sub then you get into the debate of whether to connect them to one sub output with a Y or miniDSP. Thanks, this is what I'm doing currently with 2 subs time aligned through a minidsp |
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Post by marcl on Jul 13, 2020 16:16:13 GMT -5
I'm assuming you use the Double Impacts as your L/R for two channel and for HT? Seems like you'd set the Double Impacts as Large and not cross to the sub. The other speakers look like they respond down 40Hz so debatable whether you'd cross them over to the sub, but if you did it would be at 40Hz to maybe get down to 20, right? The sub always gets the LFE with HT, none of that goes to the other speakers. If you just have one sub this is straight forward. Dirac corrects each speaker and the sub and it should work great. If you have more then one sub then you get into the debate of whether to connect them to one sub output with a Y or miniDSP. Thanks, this is what I'm doing currently with 2 subs time aligned through a minidsp Cool! I've evolved the approach over the past year and as of this week here's my current setup. The ability to use the center sub as LFE only and other sub for bass management only is exactly what I needed. Note that my center crosses at 200Hz and the surrounds at 100-130Hz. Attachments:
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