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Post by marcl on Jul 17, 2020 14:12:27 GMT -5
What others observed is as expected. If you correct two subs separately the combined response will be greater than the sum and not necessarily linear. The attached PDF is the well-respected research on the subject of multiple sub placement. The simple answer: if you have two subs place them center of the front/back walls, or center of the left/right walls. If you have four subs, the center of the four walls are best, but four corners works well too. The best way to handle multiple sub correction with Dirac or PEQ is to use a Y cable or miniDSP. Any reason I couldn't use pass thru on Monoprice sub to second sub input? I'd presume it would be a full-range pass thru and second sub frequency response is a subset of more expensive Monolith 12". Using the pass through drives both subs with the same input signal, so yes that would work fine. But it's still best if both subs are near equidistant from the listening position. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 17, 2020 14:30:23 GMT -5
Just realized you mentioned the EMM-6. That's an XLR mic using phantom power - right? Not sure how you get that to input as USB to your PC....maybe someone else knows. If worse came to worse, you could sell it and get a Cross Spectrum UMIK - or just use the mic that comes from Emotiva. Mark I have a USB interface. 2 in fact. Would Dirac not just detect that as audio input interface or does it only look form UMIK mics? If you can run your EMM-6 through a device that results in a USB output that plugs into your PC, it should work. Once the DIRAC kits are out, try it. Also, there's a video showing how to load your mic's calibration file into DIRAC. You would need to do that, but it's easy enough. If using the EMM6 does not work you could use the Emotiva Mic and get very good results. Mark |
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Post by tngiloy on Jul 17, 2020 15:53:21 GMT -5
I must not be understanding something here with the Dirac sign-up. I went to the second post and clicked on the —> Emotiva / Dirac Registration Page — Do this first!!! link, which took me to Emo. It asked for name, e-mail and which processor, but nothing about MAC address. Who wants my MAC address ? EMO or Dirac ? Where do I enter the MAC address ??
Edit- I got an email from EMO and gave them my MAC address .
@kieth- I think the reason you arre getting people's street address instead of MAC is that we are using 'autofill' and it's automatically putting in street address instead of MAC.
I didn't even see a space for MAC address when I filled out the form.
Tom
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 17, 2020 16:04:22 GMT -5
I must not be understanding something here with the Dirac sign-up. I went to the second post and clicked on the —> Emotiva / Dirac Registration Page — Do this first!!! link, which took me to Emo. It asked for name, e-mail and which processor, but nothing about MAC address. Who wants my MAC address ? EMO or Dirac ? Where do I enter the MAC address ?? When I click on the link you reference I get the screen below, there is a space for your processor type, and MAC address, both Emo and Dirac will have some of the information.  |
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Post by marcl on Jul 17, 2020 16:05:40 GMT -5
I must not be understanding something here with the Dirac sign-up. I went to the second post and clicked on the —> Emotiva / Dirac Registration Page — Do this first!!! link, which took me to Emo. It asked for name, e-mail and which processor, but nothing about MAC address. Who wants my MAC address ? EMO or Dirac ? Where do I enter the MAC address ?? Emotiva provides it to Dirac. Attachments:
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 17, 2020 17:03:32 GMT -5
Would anyone be able to speak to the ability of Dirac live version 3+ being able to work under Windows 8.1 64-bit? Their website mentions specifically Windows 10 and I was unable to find out if it's backwards compatible. My old Vista laptop was outfitted w/Win XP exclusively for programming an alarm system for which the manufacturer hasn't updated their software; I doubt it will run Win10. I'm unable tobliad software to company Win10 laptop. My desktop runs 8.1. As it is, I'll need to buy a lengthy USB extension cable for the mic or drag the desktop out of the rack to the media room. Kind of hate to shell out even more money for Windows 10 OS which I really don't want to run. Every time I've upgraded OSs I've had hardware lose driver support, costing me even more money replacing hardware on top of OS cost and labor to migrate it - far outweighing any presumed benefit. I have an 8 year old laptop with Windows 7 and it downloaded and started Dirac 3.0 fine. Obviously I have not ran through the entire process yet with it though. |
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Post by BigE on Jul 17, 2020 17:35:50 GMT -5
Any reason I couldn't use pass thru on Monoprice sub to second sub input? I'd presume it would be a full-range pass thru and second sub frequency response is a subset of more expensive Monolith 12". Using the pass through drives both subs with the same input signal, so yes that would work fine. But it's still best if both subs are near equidistant from the listening position. Equidistant... well "somewhat", but one is just right of my left front (~8') and the Monolith is to the right of my seat - perhaps 4' directly to my right. There's very little opportunity to move them due to room constraints and wiring I'd rather not tackle. I could possibly move the front sub left of the seat adjoining mine by the wall or possibly move the sub beside me behind the seat adjoining me, but these all restrict flow in an already small room, plus come with additional wiring compromises - unless I incorporate a wireless transmitter of some sort. Thank you very much for the assistance. Much appreciated. |
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Post by BigE on Jul 17, 2020 17:45:13 GMT -5
Would anyone be able to speak to the ability of Dirac live version 3+ being able to work under Windows 8.1 64-bit? Their website mentions specifically Windows 10 and I was unable to find out if it's backwards compatible. My old Vista laptop was outfitted w/Win XP exclusively for programming an alarm system for which the manufacturer hasn't updated their software; I doubt it will run Win10. I'm unable tobliad software to company Win10 laptop. My desktop runs 8.1. As it is, I'll need to buy a lengthy USB extension cable for the mic or drag the desktop out of the rack to the media room. Kind of hate to shell out even more money for Windows 10 OS which I really don't want to run. Every time I've upgraded OSs I've had hardware lose driver support, costing me even more money replacing hardware on top of OS cost and labor to migrate it - far outweighing any presumed benefit. I have an 8 year old laptop with Windows 7 and it downloaded and started Dirac 3.0 fine. Obviously I have not ran through the entire process yet with it though. Okay, good. That's somewhat re-assuring. 8.1 is way newer than 7. I mean it's not like I held out any hope for XP; it's a single purpose laptop at the moment. 8.1 continues to be very functional for my daily use and it has the Media Center upgrade as backup when my MCE7 downstairs - dedicated to recording OTA TV shows - goes on the fritz.
I realize you're unable to use the Dirac to calibrate your Emo just yet, but did the OS recognize the Emo USB microphone? That gets us another step closer. |
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Post by SticknStones on Jul 17, 2020 18:12:18 GMT -5
I added the Cross Spectrum Labs link to the 2nd post, though they’ve gone through the July 14th batch it sounds like they get, test, and release more regularly. There’s also a link to get the UMIK-1 directly from mini-DSP, they also come with individual calibration files (on-axis and 90-deg), though not to the same frequency extremes — miniDSP is 20Hz to 20KHz ± 1dB, CSL is 5Hz to 25KHz no tolerance given. A question about the CSL calibration file(s), they only mention an on-axis file, most Dirac measurements are taken with the mic pointing at the ceiling, because of this I’ve always used the 90-deg UMIK-1 calibration file. Does CSL include an off axis file as well?
This also begs the question, what happens when your mic pointing at the ceiling happens to be on-axis with a ceiling speaker? The measurement can’t be as accurate. I really like this question. Hmm, my surrounds are in the ceiling as well. It's a condo and the only solution for us. |
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Post by krauley on Jul 17, 2020 18:13:28 GMT -5
With the kits going out, will there not be a new firmware update for the processors to use and communicate with the computers running dirac or is that already on our systems with 1.10?
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Post by 5channels on Jul 17, 2020 18:21:12 GMT -5
With the kits going out, will there not be a new firmware update for the processors to use and communicate with the computers running dirac or is that already on our systems with 1.10? I recall AudioHTIT stated that for Dirac the Emo Pre/Pros will require an upgrade to 2.x Cheers J |
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Post by Hair Nick on Jul 17, 2020 19:08:56 GMT -5
There will be a 2.0 release next week since that is the Dirac firmware plus some other stuff.
Kits will begin shipping next week starting with the earliest orders first.
It will go domestic first and then international in early August.
We will be making our way through getting kits out as fast as possible to people but the sheer amount it will take a little time.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Jul 17, 2020 19:24:06 GMT -5
I really like this question. Hmm, my surrounds are in the ceiling as well. It's a condo and the only solution for us. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 17, 2020 19:55:35 GMT -5
I really like this question. Hmm, my surrounds are in the ceiling as well. It's a condo and the only solution for us. Yes, no way the speakers are moving, just a measurement issue. |
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Post by markc on Jul 18, 2020 1:57:17 GMT -5
I have a cross spectrum labs emm6 analog mic and it comes with 0, 45 and 90 deg calibration files. Shame about the bundled one being poorly calibrated. Regarding subs, does Dirac not support multiple subs? I have 2 stacked on top of each other, toying with idea of separating them to either side of MLP. For space reasons i sit right against back wall. No sure if that would help anything. The EMM-1 is not necessarily poorly calibrated - it may well be calibrated "enough"! Going back to Ansat's work in 2015 with Dirac for the XMC-1 and the microphone discussions, there was not a huge variation in different measured calibration files. A few dB here and there Unavoidable background noise in most listening environments (and present even during the "silence" you obtain for during Dirac measuring) is 40-50dB and this is most likely a bigger barrier to accuracy |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 18, 2020 7:00:13 GMT -5
Very interesting this interview, for you AudioHTIT , he answers to the above question about microphone pointing ceiling speakers at the 47:00 minute. Thanks for posting this. Yes, it is an interesting and helpful interview, I’ve only watched about 15 minutes so far but especially enjoyed when he discusses measurement and mic positions. I’ve now linked it in the 2nd post. |
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Post by marcl on Jul 18, 2020 7:19:30 GMT -5
Very interesting this interview, for you AudioHTIT , he answers to the above question about microphone pointing ceiling speakers at the 47:00 minute. Thanks for posting this. Yes, it is an interesting and helpful interview, I’ve only watched about 15 minutes so far but especially enjoyed when he discusses measurement and mic positions. I’ve now linked it in the 2nd post. I especially appreciated his explanation of how they use the multiple measurements, i.e. not a simple average. What's really strange is that he says Dirac is noise-tolerant during measurements. I found this absolutely not to be true in Dirac 1.0. Even a slightly creaking floorboard overhead would invalidate a measurement. REW is much more tolerant. As for the 90 degree mic, yes his explanation is good, and we can't be worried about the mic pointing at our height speakers. I have tried calibrating 1.0 with the mic pointed both up and forward and for the front speakers it didn't matter, really. 90 degrees is the only practical solution for our multichannel measurements. The main thing is consistency, and making each measurement position at least 18" apart. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 18, 2020 7:24:12 GMT -5
Hmm. That's a good point. I was using Acourate PC based DSP until Dolby Vision got me back to pre/pros. Acourate required the mic and output to be the same interface or else a real pain with ASIO64. Looking at the video, it looks like Dirac can use separate interfaces for input and output. Yay! Can keep my mic! (I hope.) Just realized you mentioned the EMM-6. That's an XLR mic using phantom power - right? Not sure how you get that to input as USB to your PC....maybe someone else knows. If worse came to worse, you could sell it and get a Cross Spectrum UMIK - or just use the mic that comes from Emotiva. Mark I have a couple of these USB interfaces, one from Focusrite, the other from Behringer, they are very similar. I use them mostly for stereo recording into GarageBand on my Mac mini, or directly into my iPad Pro 11 with USB-C. They can accept low impedance balanced XLR or TRS from a mic or mixer, or high impedance unbalanced TS directly from an instrument or line. They can also provide phantom power if needed. If you had a calibrated mic like the EMM-6 they can get you connected via USB. They also have line outputs for powered speakers, making them a great ‘desktop’ preamp essentially providing ADC w/2-channel mixing, and DAC w/speaker and headphone preamp, all with separate levels. One of these, a MacBook Pro, a pair of Airmotive 5’s and headphones makeup my winter system (a couple guitars too), actually travels well. There are also single channel versions a little less expensive.  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 18, 2020 7:38:42 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this. Yes, it is an interesting and helpful interview, I’ve only watched about 15 minutes so far but especially enjoyed when he discusses measurement and mic positions. I’ve now linked it in the 2nd post. I especially appreciated his explanation of how they use the multiple measurements, i.e. not a simple average. What's really strange is that he says Dirac is noise-tolerant during measurements. I found this absolutely not to be true in Dirac 1.0. Even a slightly creaking floorboard overhead would invalidate a measurement. REW is much more tolerant. As for the 90 degree mic, yes his explanation is good, and we can't be worried about the mic pointing at our height speakers. I have tried calibrating 1.0 with the mic pointed both up and forward and for the front speakers it didn't matter, really. 90 degrees is the only practical solution for our multichannel measurements. The main thing is consistency, and making each measurement position at least 18" apart. Right, I also liked the concept of weighting the measurements toward the end of the sofa with the ... important (picky) person (though I don’t know if my symmetrical brain would let me do it). Agreed too we can’t get hung up if one measurement happens to point more at a speaker than the others. Yes, I’ve also had to be pretty careful with noise, and setting mic and speaker levels to get good measurements, though once the levels were good, it was more tolerant of noise. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 18, 2020 7:54:40 GMT -5
I have tried calibrating 1.0 with the mic pointed both up and forward and for the front speakers it didn't matter, really. 90 degrees is the only practical solution for our multichannel measurements. The main thing is consistency, and making each measurement position at least 18" apart. I’ve wondered about changing the order of measurements? Once you get the boom setup on one side of the couch it would be easier to take two or three measurements on that side, then do the same on the other side. |
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