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Post by marcl on Dec 28, 2020 16:53:39 GMT -5
Ran a new calibration with .13 and everything now great, perfectly centred imaging. Really? I will give it a try. Which one did you run? 9, 13 or 17 point measurement? The 9 point measurement is what Iโm interested in for music. Itโs unbelievable how good it sounds. The 13 point smears the image a bit. You can take liberties with the patterns. Like, you can do more measurements but over a narrower area ... or fewer measurements over a wider area. Put some measurements higher or lower than others to accommodate high back seats. Etc. Dirac gives simple patterns but there's no magic in terms of how the algorithms relate the processing to exact locations.
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Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,348
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Post by Lsc on Dec 28, 2020 18:46:02 GMT -5
Really? I will give it a try. Which one did you run? 9, 13 or 17 point measurement? The 9 point measurement is what Iโm interested in for music. Itโs unbelievable how good it sounds. The 13 point smears the image a bit. You can take liberties with the patterns.ย Like, you can do more measurements but over a narrower area ... or fewer measurements over a wider area.ย Put some measurements higher or lower than others to accommodate high back seats.ย Etc.ย Dirac gives simple patterns but there's no magic in terms of how the algorithms relate the processing to exact locations. Dirac isnโt expecting you to put the mic where itโs displayed? So when you do a 9 point measurement, you donโt do 9 points - one in the MLP and the other 8 - 4 on each side in a rectangular plane?
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Post by marcl on Dec 28, 2020 19:02:29 GMT -5
You can take liberties with the patterns. Like, you can do more measurements but over a narrower area ... or fewer measurements over a wider area. Put some measurements higher or lower than others to accommodate high back seats. Etc. Dirac gives simple patterns but there's no magic in terms of how the algorithms relate the processing to exact locations. Dirac isnโt expecting you to put the mic where itโs displayed? So when you do a 9 point measurement, you donโt do 9 points - one in the MLP and the other 8 - 4 on each side in a rectangular plane? Yes generally, but give or take a foot. Or do five measurements, or seven. I have a high back couch so the back measurements I take higher than the front. Dirac is looking for what is common or different among the measurements. It doesn't do a literal average. It focuses on correcting the things that are common and ignores differences that are position dependent. The MLP is the most important point because Dirac bases the timing from that. p.s. I'm finding that with a narrow 5 position calibration is sounds great, but ... my head has to be DEAD CENTER. Multichannel music is less sensitive, but 2-channel demands that I be right in the middle or the image shifts off center.
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Post by motogp34 on Dec 29, 2020 12:56:54 GMT -5
With all the hype of Dirac, I`m really disappointed with it. I never had any issues audyssey and even though the XMC2 is a good unit it has a few issues of its own and if i could afford to replace it, I would...
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 29, 2020 17:55:55 GMT -5
Did a full measurement with 3.0.13 today.
Volume settings is quite simple now. Mic 100%, main volume at -38. Then set each speakers volume about in the middle of the blue area. This gets me a perfect calibration volume.
Calibration went fine. I selected the narrow seating (9p).
Fixed all the curtains, curves, low end and high end that needed change..
Then saved to project.
Tried to send the filter to RMC. Everything seemed to go fine, Dirac reached 100% and then crashed (Just shut down not hanged). This got RMC hanged and needing a full reboot. Didnโt help with this alone, even DLNB needed a reboot. Now Dirac found my RMC again.
I loaded my saved project. Tried to send over the filter again. Worked fine this time. Now did a Harman 4db curve. Saved and sent it to RMC. Also went fine. Then made a Harman 6db and tried to send it. Dirac suddenly told me it had lost itโs connection to the network. There was nothing wrong with my internet or network tothe laptop. Dirac had simply lost the connection to RMC and/or DLNB. Locking them again.
After a reboot of them I was back up again. Sent the last filter and it went fine.
There seem to be some issues with Dirac loosing connection to its server? This then hangs Emotivas gear. Although it shouldnโt IMO.
Did a big change this time. Instead of having a left & right sub I now use the XLR out from my subs to connect them serially. Connected to center sub set to LFE. Then having my main LR handling the bass management.
Tested โ13 hoursโ today at -20 with Harman 6db.. WOW! Thatโs some heavy bass. Each shot from the machine guns felt like a thump on the chest. The sound felt clearer than ever. The bass tighter and harder than ever. Donโt know if itโs the new speaker settings or Dirac.. But it does sound great!
I will set up one preset with large+LFE and one with small+mono and see which I think sounds best.
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Post by marcl on Dec 29, 2020 18:28:32 GMT -5
Did a full measurement with 3.0.13 today. Volume settings is quite simple now. Mic 100%, main volume at -38. Then set each speakers volume about in the middle of the blue area. This gets me a perfect calibration volume. Calibration went fine. I selected the narrow seating (9p). Fixed all the curtains, curves, low end and high end that needed change.. Then saved to project. Tried to send the filter to RMC. Everything seemed to go fine, Dirac reached 100% and then crashed (Just shut down not hanged). This got RMC hanged and needing a full reboot. Didnโt help with this alone, even DLNB needed a reboot. Now Dirac found my RMC again. I loaded my saved project. Tried to send over the filter again. Worked fine this time. Now did a Harman 4db curve. Saved and sent it to RMC. Also went fine. Then made a Harman 6db and tried to send it. Dirac suddenly told me it had lost itโs connection to the network. There was nothing wrong with my internet or network tothe laptop. Dirac had simply lost the connection to RMC and/or DLNB. Locking them again. After a reboot of them I was back up again. Sent the last filter and it went fine. There seem to be some issues with Dirac loosing connection to its server? This then hangs Emotivas gear. Although it shouldnโt IMO. Did a big change this time. Instead of having a left & right sub I now use the XLR out from my subs to connect them serially. Connected to center sub set to LFE. Then having my main LR handling the bass management. Tested โ13 hoursโ today at -20 with Harman 6db.. WOW! Thatโs some heavy bass. Each shot from the machine guns felt like a thump on the chest. The sound felt clearer than ever. The bass tighter and harder than ever. Donโt know if itโs the new speaker settings or Dirac.. But it does sound great! I will set up one preset with large+LFE and one with small+mono and see which I think sounds best. Great that you're trying out the center sub LFE thing! Looking forward to your impressions. This crash with 3.0.13 .... happens to me about 50%. Whenever I do a calibration I load the same filters to both presets. It either crashes on the first or the second pretty consistently. And same as you, it kills the XMC-2 and I have to hard reboot and also the EDNIB,
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 29, 2020 19:49:08 GMT -5
Did a full measurement with 3.0.13 today. Volume settings is quite simple now. Mic 100%, main volume at -38. Then set each speakers volume about in the middle of the blue area. This gets me a perfect calibration volume. Calibration went fine. I selected the narrow seating (9p). Fixed all the curtains, curves, low end and high end that needed change.. Then saved to project. Tried to send the filter to RMC. Everything seemed to go fine, Dirac reached 100% and then crashed (Just shut down not hanged). This got RMC hanged and needing a full reboot. Didnโt help with this alone, even DLNB needed a reboot. Now Dirac found my RMC again. I loaded my saved project. Tried to send over the filter again. Worked fine this time. Now did a Harman 4db curve. Saved and sent it to RMC. Also went fine. Then made a Harman 6db and tried to send it. Dirac suddenly told me it had lost itโs connection to the network. There was nothing wrong with my internet or network tothe laptop. Dirac had simply lost the connection to RMC and/or DLNB. Locking them again. After a reboot of them I was back up again. Sent the last filter and it went fine. There seem to be some issues with Dirac loosing connection to its server? This then hangs Emotivas gear. Although it shouldnโt IMO. Did a big change this time. Instead of having a left & right sub I now use the XLR out from my subs to connect them serially. Connected to center sub set to LFE. Then having my main LR handling the bass management. Tested โ13 hoursโ today at -20 with Harman 6db.. WOW! Thatโs some heavy bass. Each shot from the machine guns felt like a thump on the chest. The sound felt clearer than ever. The bass tighter and harder than ever. Donโt know if itโs the new speaker settings or Dirac.. But it does sound great! I will set up one preset with large+LFE and one with small+mono and see which I think sounds best. Great that you're trying out the center sub LFE thing! Looking forward to your impressions. This crash with 3.0.13 .... happens to me about 50%. Whenever I do a calibration I load the same filters to both presets. It either crashes on the first or the second pretty consistently. And same as you, it kills the XMC-2 and I have to hard reboot and also the EDNIB, I actually used left/right subs because I was lazy and wanted everything ready for DLBM.. Now that this seems delayed for quite a while I thought Iโd change to a mono signal.. And then why not test the LFE only settings as I have very bass capable front speakers. First impression is great! Btw I used PEQ on my subs to help out.. One band on each. Now I have no dips at 16-100hz. But I got a pretty nasty dip at 115hz. But if I use the subs for LFE only then it matters little as the slope should start at 100hz anyway and thereโs not much sound above 100hz in LFE anyway.. For bass mangement even less as I have most speakers at CO 80-90hz. Dirac lately changed some code regarding connectivity to their server. Can this be the reason for this instability? I noticed the transfer of the filters to my RMC was a lot slower now also. Edit: The only bad thing is that I have a huge dip at 35hz on the LF speaker. The same dip but 2-3 db less deep is on the RF. Dirac handles most of the dips though. Looking at only the calculated frequency you wouldnโt hardly notice anything. But this was a little concern by me about using them as BM speakers.
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Post by marcl on Dec 30, 2020 2:58:39 GMT -5
Great that you're trying out the center sub LFE thing! Looking forward to your impressions. This crash with 3.0.13 .... happens to me about 50%. Whenever I do a calibration I load the same filters to both presets. It either crashes on the first or the second pretty consistently. And same as you, it kills the XMC-2 and I have to hard reboot and also the EDNIB, I actually used left/right subs because I was lazy and wanted everything ready for DLBM.. Now that this seems delayed for quite a while I thought Iโd change to a mono signal.. And then why not test the LFE only settings as I have very bass capable front speakers. First impression is great! Btw I used PEQ on my subs to help out.. One band on each. Now I have no dips at 16-100hz. But I got a pretty nasty dip at 115hz. But if I use the subs for LFE only then it matters little as the slope should start at 100hz anyway and thereโs not much sound above 100hz in LFE anyway.. For bass mangement even less as I have most speakers at CO 80-90hz. Dirac lately changed some code regarding connectivity to their server. Can this be the reason for this instability? I noticed the transfer of the filters to my RMC was a lot slower now also. Edit: The only bad thing is that I have a huge dip at 35hz on the LF speaker. The same dip but 2-3 db less deep is on the RF. Dirac handles most of the dips though. Looking at only the calculated frequency you wouldnโt hardly notice anything. But this was a little concern by me about using them as BM speakers. Doing BM through the fronts made the biggest difference for the center for me, because my center has to cross at 200. But my other smalls cross 100-150 so that's significant too. To get below 40Hz on my fronts I split their outputs and send to the second miniDSP input, low pass at 35Hz. Dirac sees the fronts as fronts+subs and smooths the transition. Best of both worlds.
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Post by bblv on Dec 30, 2020 11:22:31 GMT -5
I was shocked at how much better my bass sounded/felt when I made the switch to center sub LFE for my dual 24's and let BM handle the front LCR. I have to increase the LFE level 4-6db depending on what I'm doing though, as the integration doesn't seem consistent on all sources for some reason (movie, music, or video game).
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Post by marcl on Dec 30, 2020 13:21:29 GMT -5
I was shocked at how much better my bass sounded/felt when I made the switch to center sub LFE for my dual 24's and let BM handle the front LCR. I have to increase the LFE level 4-6db depending on what I'm doing though, as the integration doesn't seem consistent on all sources for some reason (movie, music, or video game). So center sub plays LFE only. Do you have L/R subs or are you sending BM to large front L/R? Unless your music is 5.1 it won't play to the LFE center sub, right?
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Post by dkaudio on Dec 30, 2020 14:00:42 GMT -5
Did a full measurement with 3.0.13 today. Did a big change this time. Instead of having a left & right sub I now use the XLR out from my subs to connect them serially. Connected to center sub set to LFE. Then having my main LR handling the bass management. Tested โ13 hoursโ today at -20 with Harman 6db.. WOW! Thatโs some heavy bass. Each shot from the machine guns felt like a thump on the chest. The sound felt clearer than ever. The bass tighter and harder than ever. Donโt know if itโs the new speaker settings or Dirac.. But it does sound great! I will set up one preset with large+LFE and one with small+mono and see which I think sounds best. I currently am using L and R sub outputs to my two subs but have thought about changing to center and running Dirac again. Using just Center for LFE, that means your subs will not play with analog inputs, stereo music for example, right? I have DIYSG 1099's so they are fairly bass capable but I still like more. If I'm watching music videos, for example, I would want subs too.
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Post by bblv on Dec 30, 2020 14:12:02 GMT -5
I was shocked at how much better my bass sounded/felt when I made the switch to center sub LFE for my dual 24's and let BM handle the front LCR. I have to increase the LFE level 4-6db depending on what I'm doing though, as the integration doesn't seem consistent on all sources for some reason (movie, music, or video game). So center sub plays LFE only.ย Do you have L/R subs or are you sending BM to large front L/R?ย Unless your music is 5.1 it won't play to the LFE center sub, right? I have the two subs in the rear of my HT room running mono from the center sub output set to LFE. I'm glad there are wise individuals like yourself on this board, because I was stumped as to why the subs were barely moving while playing music. It makes sense that I need to create a separate profile for music, as most sources are not going to have the .1 LFE channel to feed the subs. Time to tinker more!
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Post by marcl on Dec 30, 2020 14:21:38 GMT -5
So center sub plays LFE only. Do you have L/R subs or are you sending BM to large front L/R? Unless your music is 5.1 it won't play to the LFE center sub, right? I have the two subs in the rear of my HT room running mono from the center sub output set to LFE. I'm glad there are wise individuals like yourself on this board, because I was stumped as to why the subs were barely moving while playing music. It makes sense that I need to create a separate profile for music, as most sources are not going to have the .1 LFE channel to feed the subs. Time to tinker more! Okay so you have the two subs running from a Y cable from the center sub output. And you are right, with Center Sub=LFE the subs get no sound from your other hannels so with music that is not 5.1 the subs don't play. But also, your front L/R must be set to large otherwise it would not let you select LFE for the sub output. If your front L/R go down to 40Hz you might like it best with a video preset with center sub=LFE, and a music preset with center sub=None. You may like music better with the fronts handling all the bass, and with no subs playing. Have to listen ....
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 30, 2020 14:36:35 GMT -5
Did a full measurement with 3.0.13 today. Did a big change this time. Instead of having a left & right sub I now use the XLR out from my subs to connect them serially. Connected to center sub set to LFE. Then having my main LR handling the bass management. Tested โ13 hoursโ today at -20 with Harman 6db.. WOW! Thatโs some heavy bass. Each shot from the machine guns felt like a thump on the chest. The sound felt clearer than ever. The bass tighter and harder than ever. Donโt know if itโs the new speaker settings or Dirac.. But it does sound great! I will set up one preset with large+LFE and one with small+mono and see which I think sounds best. I currently am using L and R sub outputs to my two subs but have thought about changing to center and running Dirac again. Using just Center for LFE, that means your subs will not play with analog inputs, stereo music for example, right? I have DIYSG 1099's so they are fairly bass capable but I still like more. If I'm watching music videos, for example, I would want subs too. I have one preset with fronts large and center sub(s) on LFE. The other preset is set to fronts small center sub(s) on mono. Same Dirac measurement and filters, just different speaker settings in RMC.
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Post by bblv on Dec 30, 2020 14:36:54 GMT -5
I have the two subs in the rear of my HT room running mono from the center sub output set to LFE. I'm glad there are wise individuals like yourself on this board, because I was stumped as to why the subs were barely moving while playing music. It makes sense that I need to create a separate profile for music, as most sources are not going to have the .1 LFE channel to feed the subs. Time to tinker more! Okay so you have the two subs running from a Y cable from the center sub output.ย And you are right, with Center Sub=LFE the subs get no sound from your other hannels so with music that is not 5.1 the subs don't play.ย But also, your front L/R must be set to large otherwise it would not let you select LFE for the sub output. If your front L/R go down to 40Hz you might like it best with a video preset with center sub=LFE, and a music preset with center sub=None.ย ย You may like music better with the fronts handling all the bass, and with no subs playing.ย Have to listen .... My LCR is currently set to large and they're extremely capable down low - this is why I wasn't really noticing the subs not being present in certain listening situations. I'm sure my wife and the dog upstairs appreciated my incompetence for the past few months haha
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Post by bblv on Dec 30, 2020 14:37:39 GMT -5
I currently am using L and R sub outputs to my two subs but have thought about changing to center and running Dirac again. Using just Center for LFE, that means your subs will not play with analog inputs, stereo music for example, right? I have DIYSG 1099's so they are fairly bass capable but I still like more. If I'm watching music videos, for example, I would want subs too. I have one preset with fronts large and center sub(s) on LFE. The other preset is set to fronts small center sub(s) on mono. Same Dirac measurement and filters, just different speaker settings in RMC. This is exactly what I'm setting up right now thanks to you guys.
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Post by bblv on Dec 30, 2020 14:48:18 GMT -5
I currently am using L and R sub outputs to my two subs but have thought about changing to center and running Dirac again. Using just Center for LFE, that means your subs will not play with analog inputs, stereo music for example, right? I have DIYSG 1099's so they are fairly bass capable but I still like more. If I'm watching music videos, for example, I would want subs too. I have one preset with fronts large and center sub(s) on LFE. The other preset is set to fronts small center sub(s) on mono. Same Dirac measurement and filters, just different speaker settings in RMC. You running with or without Enhanced Bass on your two presets? I currently have EB on Preset 1 (center LFE sub and large LCR's) and about to experiment with it on Preset 2 (center mono sub and small LCR's).
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Post by marcl on Dec 30, 2020 15:57:49 GMT -5
I have one preset with fronts large and center sub(s) on LFE. The other preset is set to fronts small center sub(s) on mono. Same Dirac measurement and filters, just different speaker settings in RMC. You running with or without Enhanced Bass on your two presets? I currently have EB on Preset 1 (center LFE sub and large LCR's) and about to experiment with it on Preset 2 (center mono sub and small LCR's). Since in Preset 1 you have center sub=LFE and no L/R sub, Enhanced Bass does nothing. Since center sub=LFE sends bass management to your large speakers, if you select Enhanced Bass it would (theoretically) send large speaker bass to where it already is. You can't use Enhanced Bass for Preset 2 because you have no large speakers.
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 30, 2020 17:46:17 GMT -5
Did a full measurement with 3.0.13 today. Volume settings is quite simple now. Mic 100%, main volume at -38. Then set each speakers volume about in the middle of the blue area. This gets me a perfect calibration volume. Calibration went fine. I selected the narrow seating (9p). Fixed all the curtains, curves, low end and high end that needed change.. Then saved to project. Tried to send the filter to RMC. Everything seemed to go fine, Dirac reached 100% and then crashed (Just shut down not hanged). This got RMC hanged and needing a full reboot. Didnโt help with this alone, even DLNB needed a reboot. Now Dirac found my RMC again. I loaded my saved project. Tried to send over the filter again. Worked fine this time. Now did a Harman 4db curve. Saved and sent it to RMC. Also went fine. Then made a Harman 6db and tried to send it. Dirac suddenly told me it had lost itโs connection to the network. There was nothing wrong with my internet or network tothe laptop. Dirac had simply lost the connection to RMC and/or DLNB. Locking them again. After a reboot of them I was back up again. Sent the last filter and it went fine. There seem to be some issues with Dirac loosing connection to its server? This then hangs Emotivas gear. Although it shouldnโt IMO. Did a big change this time. Instead of having a left & right sub I now use the XLR out from my subs to connect them serially. Connected to center sub set to LFE. Then having my main LR handling the bass management. Tested โ13 hoursโ today at -20 with Harman 6db.. WOW! Thatโs some heavy bass. Each shot from the machine guns felt like a thump on the chest. The sound felt clearer than ever. The bass tighter and harder than ever. Donโt know if itโs the new speaker settings or Dirac.. But it does sound great! I will set up one preset with large+LFE and one with small+mono and see which I think sounds best. Great that you're trying out the center sub LFE thing! Looking forward to your impressions. This crash with 3.0.13 .... happens to me about 50%. Whenever I do a calibration I load the same filters to both presets. It either crashes on the first or the second pretty consistently. And same as you, it kills the XMC-2 and I have to hard reboot and also the EDNIB, Did the complete filter transfers.. A lot of bugging and restarts. I decided to uninstall 3.0.13 and reinstall it again. After that it worked 3 times in a row! First impressions was defined, tight and lost alot of sub rumblings. Hits hard when its supposed to.. Dropping keys on the floor doesnโt move my sofa.. Then I did a switch comparison with crossover and LFE modes. Wow! This was a night and day difference. A LOT LESS bass from LFE preset! With this I mean A LOT. Did the test with Harman 6db with the same filters on both. Movie: Star Wars - Rise of Skywalker: AppleTV 4k,4k HDR, DD+ Atmos, 20bit 48khz Scene: Intro when Kylo Ren flies to Palpatine and has a talk. Great scene! My first though was this must be wrong. Seems like Emotiva adds the +10db from LFE to both BM+LFE when they are mixed together. Is this something you have noticed? Maybe not with your setup!? The difference is so massive that you feel either something is missing or something is added on either preset. My setup is 9.2.4, crossover: LR at 50hz, C, SS, SR, FW at 80hz and TF, TR at 100hz. Two 12โ subwoofers, serially connected to center sub
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 30, 2020 17:50:55 GMT -5
You running with or without Enhanced Bass on your two presets? I currently have EB on Preset 1 (center LFE sub and large LCR's) and about to experiment with it on Preset 2 (center mono sub and small LCR's). Since in Preset 1 you have center sub=LFE and no L/R sub, Enhanced Bass does nothing. Since center sub=LFE sends bass management to your large speakers, if you select Enhanced Bass it would (theoretically) send large speaker bass to where it already is. You can't use Enhanced Bass for Preset 2 because you have no large speakers. Yes, Emotiva should remove the option of Enhanced bass when you have a lone sub output set to LFE.
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