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Post by hsamwel on Nov 24, 2020 6:54:10 GMT -5
What does a +4 harmon curve do ? Will bi amping the front change the Dirac run out come ? After a Dirac calibration, did you have to turn the volume up more than usual to listen to movies at reference levels ? I think the gain issue is because Dirac lowers to the dip rather than the peak in the frequency curve while flattening it out. I experience the same thing having to increase my volume from 60 on the knob to 70 on the knob to achieve the same output. As hsamwell stated the Harmon Research curves are named after the "boost" in the bass/mid bass region. Just for FYI I utilize an 8db curve. Yes, many big dips that Dirac needs to correct leads to lower volume. Dirac fix dips up to 10db so thatβs about the volume drop you can experience.
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Post by multicore on Nov 24, 2020 15:56:15 GMT -5
I have tried running dirac 5 times w/o success. I can get through measurements, and click on filter design. It then proceeds to do preprocessing, completes and opens filter design. I then get the following error message every time:
Unexpected program state for operation The program is in the wrong state to perform power correction and is unable to proceed. This may be due to a software bug. Restart the program and try again.
I have tried re-downloading the SW and re-install. I have started from scratch and re-did the measurements. I have tried saving after measurements, exiting, and loading. But no matter what I try I get the same error. I am running dirac 3.0.11 and the XMC2 is on the latest FW 2.1
Has anyone else run into this?
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Post by ttocs on Nov 24, 2020 16:11:45 GMT -5
I have tried running dirac 5 times w/o success. I can get through measurements, and click on filter design. It then proceeds to do preprocessing, completes and opens filter design. I then get the following error message every time: Unexpected program state for operation The program is in the wrong state to perform power correction and is unable to proceed. This may be due to a software bug. Restart the program and try again. I have tried re-downloading the SW and re-install. I have started from scratch and re-did the measurements. I have tried saving after measurements, exiting, and loading. But no matter what I try I get the same error. I am running dirac 3.0.11 and the XMC2 is on the latest FW 2.1 Has anyone else run into this? PC or Mac? Which OS?
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Post by marcl on Nov 24, 2020 16:18:31 GMT -5
I just did a test to see how much Dirac lowers the volume level as a result of having to cut the overall level in order to compensate for dips in the response. The hypothesis is that Dirac does not "raise the bridge", it "lowers the river" ... i.e. Dirac does not actually boost the level of dips, it just reduces all the levels down to that of the lowest dip and then applies the Target Curve and normalizes volume to the lowest level speaker. Methodology: - Measure the response of L+R channels in REW with the original Dirac filters
- Open the original Dirac Project and - keeping the same flat 0db Target Curves - reduce the levels of all Target Curves equally by -10db so that all Target Curves are below the level of the lowest dip. No boost should be applied, and response should still be flat.
- Measure the response of L+R in REW with the -10db Target Curves.
- Open the original Dirac Project again and - leaving the nominal Target Curve at 0db - manipulate all Target Curves so Dirac does no boost. i.e. allow Dirac to cut levels down to 0db, but below 0db follow the speaker response so no boost is applied. In some cases Curtains are adjusted to prevent boost at the upper/lower limits.
- Measure the response of L+R channels in REW with no boost Target Curves.
Here are screen shots of the L/R Target Curves for the baseline 0db original filters, -10db flat filters, and 0db filters with no boost. All other speakers including subs were adjusted based on the same criteria.
Expected Results: - With Target Curves reduced by -10db, the response should be identical in shape to original. Volume level should be approximately the same as the original volume level was with a combination of boost and cut. This is based on the premise that the way Dirac does boost (described above) determines the final level.
- With Target Curves manipulated for a nominal 0db, but following all dips such that no boost is applied, the response should not match the shape of original response. Volume level should be higher (possibly by as much as +10db) because Dirac does not have to lower the overall volume to accommodate the dips.
Actual Results ... It did not work out as expected! - -10db Target Curves - response shape was close but not identical to original response. But, the overall level was reduced by about -10db! Lowering the Target Curve to -10db resulted in a lowering of the volume level by about -10db, but that varied somewhat as the response was not identical.
- No Boost Target Curves - volume level was identical to the original! The shape was different because I significantly altered the Target Curve, but it was not radically different.
Due to the fact that the left and right channels have slightly different responses, here is a comparison of only the left channel with the flat Target Curve and the no boost Target Curve with 1/48db smoothing. Conclusion: - Whether your Target Curves are shaped to include compensation for dips or not, the final volume level is the same.
- Dirac ignores and does not attempt to correct some narrow dips in response. This is somewhat evident in the left channel comparison above.
- Lowering entire Target Curves results in lowering volume level. Presumably, raising all the Target Curves will result in raising volume level by a comparable amount overall. In this scenario Dirac may not fully compensate for deeper dips in response.
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Post by marcl on Nov 24, 2020 16:20:28 GMT -5
I have tried running dirac 5 times w/o success. I can get through measurements, and click on filter design. It then proceeds to do preprocessing, completes and opens filter design. I then get the following error message every time: Unexpected program state for operation The program is in the wrong state to perform power correction and is unable to proceed. This may be due to a software bug. Restart the program and try again. I have tried re-downloading the SW and re-install. I have started from scratch and re-did the measurements. I have tried saving after measurements, exiting, and loading. But no matter what I try I get the same error. I am running dirac 3.0.11 and the XMC2 is on the latest FW 2.1 Has anyone else run into this? Most definitely weird! I suggest you go to the Dirac site and put in a ticket. Upload them your actual project file and a screen shot of the error if possible. They are very good at responding within a day or so.
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Post by multicore on Nov 24, 2020 16:31:52 GMT -5
I have tried running dirac 5 times w/o success. I can get through measurements, and click on filter design. It then proceeds to do preprocessing, completes and opens filter design. I then get the following error message every time: Unexpected program state for operation The program is in the wrong state to perform power correction and is unable to proceed. This may be due to a software bug. Restart the program and try again. I have tried re-downloading the SW and re-install. I have started from scratch and re-did the measurements. I have tried saving after measurements, exiting, and loading. But no matter what I try I get the same error. I am running dirac 3.0.11 and the XMC2 is on the latest FW 2.1 Has anyone else run into this? PC or Mac? Which OS? PC, Windows 10
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Post by multicore on Nov 24, 2020 17:40:49 GMT -5
I tried loading my saved measurements on a separate computer (PC, Win 10) and I still get the same error. This is very bizarre.
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Post by ttocs on Nov 24, 2020 17:51:58 GMT -5
I tried loading my saved measurements on a separate computer (PC, Win 10) and I still get the same error. This is very bizarre. Have you had success with a previous version of Dirac 3? I'm stumped with this one. But I use Mac so I'm unfamiliar with what might be happening on a PC. With 3.0.11 there are some unusual occurrences of odd behavior, so maybe it's not stable enough for all configs. For example, in previous versions I've been able to leave the miniDSP connected without issue, but now it causes a conflict with the microphone slider in Volume Calibration not being controllable. I quit Dirac, unplug miniDSP, unplug the mic, then plug mic in, and start Dirac, then it's ok. So maybe it's something weird like this.
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Post by multicore on Nov 24, 2020 18:43:13 GMT -5
I tried loading my saved measurements on a separate computer (PC, Win 10) and I still get the same error. This is very bizarre. Have you had success with a previous version of Dirac 3? I'm stumped with this one. But I use Mac so I'm unfamiliar with what might be happening on a PC. With 3.0.11 there are some unusual occurrences of odd behavior, so maybe it's not stable enough for all configs. For example, in previous versions I've been able to leave the miniDSP connected without issue, but now it causes a conflict with the microphone slider in Volume Calibration not being controllable. I quit Dirac, unplug miniDSP, unplug the mic, then plug mic in, and start Dirac, then it's ok. So maybe it's something weird like this. I do not have a miniDSP so that is not it. Taking Marcl's advice I submitted a ticket to Dirac with screen shots and the log file. Forgot to mention that I have run Dirac successfully in the past (I think 3.0.4) and there have not been any changes to my system.
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Post by Priapulus on Nov 24, 2020 21:14:17 GMT -5
I have tried running dirac 5 times w/o success. I can get through measurements, and click on filter design. It then proceeds to do preprocessing, completes and opens filter design. I then get the following error message every time: Unexpected program state for operation The program is in the wrong state to perform power correction and is unable to proceed. This may be due to a software bug. Restart the program and try again. I have tried re-downloading the SW and re-install. I have started from scratch and re-did the measurements. I have tried saving after measurements, exiting, and loading. But no matter what I try I get the same error. I am running dirac 3.0.11 and the XMC2 is on the latest FW 2.1 Has anyone else run into this? I get the exact same error. I was using the previous version of Dirac with no problems (Win-10). I uploaded the newest version and loaded in my previously saved project all was good. When I clicked on "Filter design" I got the error. Repeating obtains the same error. Reinstalling obtains the same error. /b
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Post by ttocs on Nov 24, 2020 22:52:46 GMT -5
I have tried running dirac 5 times w/o success. I can get through measurements, and click on filter design. It then proceeds to do preprocessing, completes and opens filter design. I then get the following error message every time: Unexpected program state for operation The program is in the wrong state to perform power correction and is unable to proceed. This may be due to a software bug. Restart the program and try again. I have tried re-downloading the SW and re-install. I have started from scratch and re-did the measurements. I have tried saving after measurements, exiting, and loading. But no matter what I try I get the same error. I am running dirac 3.0.11 and the XMC2 is on the latest FW 2.1 Has anyone else run into this? I get the exact same error. I was using the previous version of Dirac with no problems (Win-10). I uploaded the newest version and loaded in my previously saved project all was good. When I clicked on "Filter design" I got the error. Repeating obtains the same error. Reinstalling obtains the same error. /b Are both of you able to make new measurements and filter successfully? Or does that fail too? Just trying to figure out if it's a failure in the conversion of old Projects or all Projects.
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Post by multicore on Nov 24, 2020 23:19:12 GMT -5
I get the exact same error. I was using the previous version of Dirac with no problems (Win-10). I uploaded the newest version and loaded in my previously saved project all was good. When I clicked on "Filter design" I got the error. Repeating obtains the same error. Reinstalling obtains the same error. /b Are both of you able to make new measurements and filter successfully? Or does that fail too? Just trying to figure out if it's a failure in the conversion of old Projects or all Projects. As previously stated, all cases fail, and I have tried everything I can think of: new measurements, old measurements, different computers, turning off all other running programs, etc.
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Post by ttocs on Nov 24, 2020 23:53:33 GMT -5
Are both of you able to make new measurements and filter successfully? Or does that fail too? Just trying to figure out if it's a failure in the conversion of old Projects or all Projects. As previously stated, all cases fail, and I have tried everything I can think of: new measurements, old measurements, different computers, turning off all other running programs, etc. Then if Priapulus confirms the same failure with new measurements, then it's got to be a bug common to Win10. On the Mac, Dirac doesn't recognize all the forms of "Right Click" alternatives so I had to use a PC two button mouse to edit Control Points. I just discovered today another setting that DOES work, which is changing the Secondary Click setting for the TrackPad. The normal Secondary Click is not recognized by Dirac, but the alternate method is. Dirac will probably figure out what your issue is pretty quick because if this is happening to you both, it's got to be happening to a lot of folks.
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Post by hsamwel on Nov 25, 2020 5:19:44 GMT -5
I use Win10. Have upgraded from 3.0.2 and up.
Done full measurements on 3.0.5, 3.0.9 and 3.0.11. Recalculated from every version after 3.0.5 including 3.0.11. I have not had any issues.
Must be something special with their Win10 setups or computers.
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Post by geebo on Nov 25, 2020 7:32:40 GMT -5
3.0.11 works fine with my Win10 laptop.
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Post by richter250 on Nov 25, 2020 9:10:41 GMT -5
This is from the Emotiva Dirac Manual. Does it still apply? If so, this would preclude the possibility of using one set of measurements for both speaker presets and then turning off a center channel or subwoofer in one of the presets. Correct?
WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO USE A DIRAC FILTER SET IN ONE OF THE SPEAKER PRESETS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE CONFIGURATION YOU HAVE SET IN THE SPEAKER PRESET MATCH THE CONFIGURATION THAT WAS USED TO CREATE THAT DIRAC CORRECTION FILTER SET. Failure to do so may result in some speaker sets failing to play entirely or playing with incorrect correction filters applied to them. You may change speakers from Small to Large, or from Large to Small, but you should not add or remove speakers from the configuration.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Nov 25, 2020 9:38:44 GMT -5
This is from the Emotiva Dirac Manual. Does it still apply? If so, this would preclude the possibility of using one set of measurements for both speaker presets and then turning off a center channel or subwoofer in one of the presets. Correct? WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO USE A DIRAC FILTER SET IN ONE OF THE SPEAKER PRESETS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE CONFIGURATION YOU HAVE SET IN THE SPEAKER PRESET MATCH THE CONFIGURATION THAT WAS USED TO CREATE THAT DIRAC CORRECTION FILTER SET. Failure to do so may result in some speaker sets failing to play entirely or playing with incorrect correction filters applied to them. You may change speakers from Small to Large, or from Large to Small, but you should not add or remove speakers from the configuration. I can say it works fine if removing a subwoofer. I have two presets - one with subwoofers and one without. For the second one I temporarily set the mains to small and enabled the subs then started Dirac and loaded my Preset 1 project and saved the filters to a slot in Preset 2. After exiting Dirac I disabled the subs and set the mains back to large and it works great. I've not tried it with a center though.
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Post by marcl on Nov 25, 2020 9:45:45 GMT -5
This is from the Emotiva Dirac Manual. Does it still apply? If so, this would preclude the possibility of using one set of measurements for both speaker presets and then turning off a center channel or subwoofer in one of the presets. Correct? WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO USE A DIRAC FILTER SET IN ONE OF THE SPEAKER PRESETS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE CONFIGURATION YOU HAVE SET IN THE SPEAKER PRESET MATCH THE CONFIGURATION THAT WAS USED TO CREATE THAT DIRAC CORRECTION FILTER SET. Failure to do so may result in some speaker sets failing to play entirely or playing with incorrect correction filters applied to them. You may change speakers from Small to Large, or from Large to Small, but you should not add or remove speakers from the configuration. I can say it works fine if removing a subwoofer. I have two presets - one with subwoofers and one without. For the second one I temporarily set the mains to small and enabled the subs then started Dirac and loaded my Preset 1 project and saved the filters to a slot in Preset 2. After exiting Dirac I disabled the subs and set the mains back to large and it works great. I've not tried it with a center though. I do essentially the same thing, except I don't set the mains to small when doing the Dirac calibration and saving filters. I wouldn't think setting any speaker to large or small makes a difference to Dirac since it runs without Bass Management. Now if we had DLBC ... whoops sorry ... dreaming again
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Post by Priapulus on Nov 25, 2020 10:22:22 GMT -5
I get the exact same error. I was using the previous version of Dirac with no problems (Win-10). I uploaded the newest version and loaded in my previously saved project all was good. When I clicked on "Filter design" I got the error. Repeating obtains the same error. Reinstalling obtains the same error. /b Are both of you able to make new measurements and filter successfully? Or does that fail too? Just trying to figure out if it's a failure in the conversion of old Projects or all Projects. It fails at the end of loading a project, without doing anything else to trigger it. I haven't tried making new measurements, I must wait until my neighbours (apartment) go out, because of the noise. No microphone attached. /b
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Post by marcl on Nov 25, 2020 10:49:20 GMT -5
Are both of you able to make new measurements and filter successfully? Or does that fail too? Just trying to figure out if it's a failure in the conversion of old Projects or all Projects. It fails at the end of loading a project, without doing anything else to trigger it. I haven't tried making new measurements, I must wait until my neighbours (apartment) go out, because of the noise. No microphone attached. /b What is the size of the file you're loading? If it's 7k, or actually anything less than 50k, it's probably corrupt and all you need to do is make new measurements and save a file successfully.
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