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Post by boomzilla on Jun 27, 2020 11:11:46 GMT -5
I've reached the end of my rope with subwoofers. I want some full-range speakers. Full-range, in my definition, having a -3dB anechoic response at 30 Hz. (or lower). I think that I've narrowed down the contenders to but two, but there are a LOT of speakers still out there that I'm unfamiliar with...
I'm also not interested in buying used and having to possibly scrounge for repair parts should the used speakers break.
New speakers I'm considering include the Tekton Double Impact models and the GoldenEar Triton 2+ models. Although the Double Impacts seem to be $1K cheaper, the GoldenEars can be bought at discount - the Tektons can't.
What sound do I want? I'd like (but won't get) phase coherent. I'd like a smooth frequency response, but with very good dynamics. Think Thiels on steroids...
So those are my criteria - and once again - NO USED MODELS.
Thanks - BoomaDooma
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Post by garbulky on Jun 27, 2020 11:19:36 GMT -5
Price range?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 27, 2020 11:34:05 GMT -5
I could give you contacts for previous owners of both the Tekton and the GE systems you mention who have abandoned them after never getting them to sound good in their rooms.
If I was buying a set of commercial loudspeakers today they would probably be Elac Vela 409s.
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Post by mgbpuff on Jun 27, 2020 11:53:04 GMT -5
Revel Salon Ultima II - been A+ full range rated for years now Attachments:
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Post by daveczski65 on Jun 27, 2020 12:37:23 GMT -5
I've reached the end of my rope with subwoofers. I want some full-range speakers. Full-range, in my definition, having a -3dB anechoic response at 30 Hz. (or lower). I think that I've narrowed down the contenders to but two, but there are a LOT of speakers still out there that I'm unfamiliar with... I'm also not interested in buying used and having to possibly scrounge for repair parts should the used speakers break. New speakers I'm considering include the Tekton Double Impact models and the GoldenEar Triton 2+ models. Although the Double Impacts seem to be $1K cheaper, the GoldenEars can be bought at discount - the Tektons can't. What sound do I want? I'd like (but won't get) phase coherent. I'd like a smooth frequency response, but with very good dynamics. Think Thiels on steroids... So those are my criteria - and once again - NO USED MODELS. Thanks - BoomaDooma Stay away from TEKTON !!! I have been waiting over 2mo now and still dont have any speakers,I have called them numerous times and be givin the runaround..They cant keep up with there demand and are most likely building there more expensive speakers for the customers who spend more money,,As if 3000.00 isnt enough..Really upset with them..Going to get a refund on monday and take my buisness eleswhere!!!
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Post by gsand on Jun 27, 2020 12:42:59 GMT -5
Had the Golden Ear Triton 2's, was not partial to speakers that have to be plugged into the wall, possible onboard amplifier issues down the road etc. + the "wifey" factor of questioning why more wires are coming out of the speakers! They sounded okay, but not compared to the Tekton Double Impacts. The Tektons seem to sound more like a live music event. I own a pair of the first "gen"? Double Impacts and also a new pair with the "upgrade" pkg. Big difference, The latest version has massive bass and the tweeter's seems to have a much wider dispersion.
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Post by creimes on Jun 27, 2020 12:43:47 GMT -5
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Post by foggy1956 on Jun 27, 2020 12:53:43 GMT -5
I've reached the end of my rope with subwoofers. I want some full-range speakers. Full-range, in my definition, having a -3dB anechoic response at 30 Hz. (or lower). I think that I've narrowed down the contenders to but two, but there are a LOT of speakers still out there that I'm unfamiliar with... I'm also not interested in buying used and having to possibly scrounge for repair parts should the used speakers break. New speakers I'm considering include the Tekton Double Impact models and the GoldenEar Triton 2+ models. Although the Double Impacts seem to be $1K cheaper, the GoldenEars can be bought at discount - the Tektons can't. What sound do I want? I'd like (but won't get) phase coherent. I'd like a smooth frequency response, but with very good dynamics. Think Thiels on steroids... So those are my criteria - and once again - NO USED MODELS. Thanks - BoomaDooma Buy the Double Impacts with the upgrade
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jun 27, 2020 12:55:20 GMT -5
I've not heard any "full range" speakers I am fully satisfied with, and I've not heard either of the 2 in your poll. But I have heard the Golden Ear Triton 2's (not 2+) and didn't like them myself. I that listening session I was comparing the Maggie's I ended up with to Golden Ear, Martin Logan, Vandersteens, and a couple others. Each has some things I liked better than the Maggies, but none were as overall great...so, I got the Maggies.
I have heard very good things about Def Tech's (and I LOVE my outdoor Def Tech's...the punch low for tiny outdoor speakers).
I'll PM you the phone # of someone with input who's no longer on the lounge who will happily offer his input.
PS - I take this thread to mean that your experiment with the Dayton Audio bass modules didn't work out...
Mark
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 27, 2020 13:04:06 GMT -5
So why are you giving up on subwoofers? In my experience you really can't achieve true full-range sound without them.
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Post by simpleman68 on Jun 27, 2020 14:22:20 GMT -5
I've not heard any "full range" speakers I am fully satisfied with, and I've not heard either of the 2 in your poll. But I have heard the Golden Ear Triton 2's (not 2+) and didn't like them myself. I that listening session I was comparing the Maggie's I ended up with to Golden Ear, Martin Logan, Vandersteens, and a couple others. Each has some things I liked better than the Maggies, but none were as overall great...so, I got the Maggies. I have heard very good things about Def Tech's (and I LOVE my outdoor Def Tech's...the punch low for tiny outdoor speakers). I'll PM you the phone # of someone with input who's no longer on the lounge who will happily offer his input. PS - I take this thread to mean that your experiment with the Dayton Audio bass modules didn't work out... Mark Electro-stats and subs are a glorious combo if done right. I've heard a couple rigs done with them (one at Boom's pals house) and they were very impressive. Even near-field setups had tremendous stage when sitting ~5' from the mains.
Mark, if you're ever up my way feel free to stop by and listen to the Valors. About the best I've ever heard a speaker sound as far as: timbre accurate, vast stage depth/width, no coloration, phase correct (DSP FTW), dynamic at lower volumes/crystal clear at 105dB+ etc.
2 - 14" drivers for mids and bass with 2 - 12" sub drivers + 2 passive radiators work very well to share the load. At high volumes the drivers don't appear to move at all. Amazing they got it to work so well in one cabinet although they are near 300 lbs. each.
Scott
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Post by garbulky on Jun 27, 2020 14:44:30 GMT -5
I've not heard any "full range" speakers I am fully satisfied with, and I've not heard either of the 2 in your poll. But I have heard the Golden Ear Triton 2's (not 2+) and didn't like them myself. I that listening session I was comparing the Maggie's I ended up with to Golden Ear, Martin Logan, Vandersteens, and a couple others. Each has some things I liked better than the Maggies, but none were as overall great...so, I got the Maggies. I have heard very good things about Def Tech's (and I LOVE my outdoor Def Tech's...the punch low for tiny outdoor speakers). I'll PM you the phone # of someone with input who's no longer on the lounge who will happily offer his input. PS - I take this thread to mean that your experiment with the Dayton Audio bass modules didn't work out... Mark Electro-stats and subs are a glorious combo if done right. I've heard a couple rigs done with them (one at Boom's pals house) and they were very impressive. Even near-field setups had tremendous stage when sitting ~5' from the mains. Mark, if you're ever up my way feel free to stop by and listen to the Valors. About the best I've ever heard a speaker sound as far as: timbre accurate, vast stage depth/width, no coloration, phase correct (DSP FTW), dynamic at lower volumes/crystal clear at 105dB+ etc. 2 - 14" drivers for mids and bass with 2 - 12" sub drivers + 2 passive radiators work very well to share the load. At high volumes the drivers don't appear to move at all. Amazing they got it to work so well in one cabinet although they are near 300 lbs. each.
Scott
Those weren't electrostats at B'zilla's friends house. They were interesting cone speakers Dahlquist DQ-10's stacked together.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 27, 2020 14:57:33 GMT -5
Full range that are no longer made....Thiel CS6....no need for a sub.
Good full range speakers are going to cost you new.
Take a look at SVS....not sure if you would still need a sub though....
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Post by DavidR on Jun 27, 2020 15:01:16 GMT -5
Bill Dudleston's Legacy Speakers. Probably one of the better USA made speakers that don't cost as much as a house like Wilsons. Bill is also a fan of Acoustic Research speakers and it shows in his designs. If my big ARs ever give up the ghost I'd go for a pair of the Signature or the Focus.
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Post by boomzilla on Jun 27, 2020 15:02:23 GMT -5
OK - good questions, all.
1. Why am I giving up on subwoofers?
I listen to music with subsonic content so seldom that I'm no longer chasing the bottom octave at all. I can live without anything lower than 30 Hz. Although placement will always be a compromise with full-range speakers, placement will ALSO be a compromise even with subwoofers. In a dual-purpose room, WAF prevents the placement of any sub away from the walls or at significant elevation. Even with DSP, subs are more prone to standing wave issues in the room than are even full-range speakers. Good subs are expensive, bulky, tedious to setup, and require a plethora of additional power cords, equalizers, and interconnects. Subs in any reasonable price range are generally available only in butt-ugly black. Unless you're both experienced and very lucky, the transition between the main speakers and the subs will still be audible. I'm just tired of messing with subwoofers.
2. What is my speaker budget?
Being the cheapskate I am and have always been, I'd say my budget is between $2K and $4K. And even then, the piggy bank will have to be replenished prior to any purchase.
3. What about Definitive Technology?
Despite DefTech's consistently ludicrous specifications, their speakers have always sounded good to me. The last DefTech I heard was one of their aluminum Mythos towers - sounded pretty good to me!
Thanks for the feedback.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 27, 2020 15:11:20 GMT -5
OK - good questions, all. 1. Why am I giving up on subwoofers? I listen to music with subsonic content so seldom that I'm no longer chasing the bottom octave at all. I can live without anything lower than 30 Hz. Although placement will always be a compromise with full-range speakers, placement will ALSO be a compromise even with subwoofers. In a dual-purpose room, WAF prevents the placement of any sub away from the walls or at significant elevation. Even with DSP, subs are more prone to standing wave issues in the room than are even full-range speakers. Good subs are expensive, bulky, tedious to setup, and require a plethora of additional power cords, equalizers, and interconnects. Subs in any reasonable price range are generally available only in butt-ugly black. Unless you're both experienced and very lucky, the transition between the main speakers and the subs will still be audible. I'm just tired of messing with subwoofers. Quitter.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 27, 2020 15:17:57 GMT -5
In all seriousness, all audio contains subsonics, some a lot more than others. That being said of course you can get great musical enjoyment from systems with roll-off at 50Hz. But I am a huge advocate for a sub in every system. The problem is most people set them up wrong. They think they need to hear them. No, for a music system the sub should never draw attention to itself. it should be there, rumbling softly in that bottom octave or two, and you only realize it is there if you turn it off. That is a proper subwoofer setup for music.
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Post by simpleman68 on Jun 27, 2020 15:22:47 GMT -5
Electro-stats and subs are a glorious combo if done right. I've heard a couple rigs done with them (one at Boom's pals house) and they were very impressive. Even near-field setups had tremendous stage when sitting ~5' from the mains. Mark, if you're ever up my way feel free to stop by and listen to the Valors. About the best I've ever heard a speaker sound as far as: timbre accurate, vast stage depth/width, no coloration, phase correct (DSP FTW), dynamic at lower volumes/crystal clear at 105dB+ etc. 2 - 14" drivers for mids and bass with 2 - 12" sub drivers + 2 passive radiators work very well to share the load. At high volumes the drivers don't appear to move at all. Amazing they got it to work so well in one cabinet although they are near 300 lbs. each.
Scott
Those weren't electrostats at B'zilla's friends house. They were interesting cone speakers Dahlquist DQ-10's stacked together. I didn't realize that. I thought he had a few drivers surrounded by e-stats. They sounded fantastic. Other setup I heard recently were with a pair of Maggies. Beautiful and detailed mids that filled the room in a very natural way.
Thanks for the correction Gar Scott
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Post by garbulky on Jun 27, 2020 15:30:08 GMT -5
Those weren't electrostats at B'zilla's friends house. They were interesting cone speakers Dahlquist DQ-10's stacked together. I didn't realize that. I thought he had a few drivers surrounded by e-stats. They sounded fantastic. Other setup I heard recently were with a pair of Maggies. Beautiful and detailed mids that filled the room in a very natural way. Thanks for the correction Gar Scott
No problems. I also thought it was a electrostat/ribbon speaker because it was so slim! Good times! I've also heard Martin Logan Aerius's and Magnepan 1.6 at B'zilla's place which sounded pretty good imo .
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Post by boomzilla on Jun 27, 2020 15:37:04 GMT -5
...PS - I take this thread to mean that your experiment with the Dayton Audio bass modules didn't work out... Mark Quite to the contrary, Mark! I think the little Daytons are the coolest thing since sliced bread. I consider the mandatory for ANY subwoofer. If you haven't tried them, you're only cheating yourself!
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