mak99
Minor Hero
Posts: 34
|
Post by mak99 on Aug 7, 2020 21:56:43 GMT -5
OK, I've recently been upgrading some of the media room equipment (7.1 system), which includes two XPA-1/G1s for the FL/FR speakers (Polk LSiM707), replacing the XPA-100s. I still have a third XPA-100 driving the center channel (Polk LSiM706c) but am looking for a third XPA-1 to drive it. Looking via CL, OU, and EB hasn't seen much lately but I do see XPA-2 somewhat regularly. So if I were to go with an XPA-2, what would be the preferred way to connect? - Just use one channel only to drive the center speaker (but seems like a waste of a channel!)
- Bridge the XPA-2 into a monoblock, but wonder if this might be too much power for the center (specs are 20W-250W "steady state power")
- Split the center channel signal to both inputs, then biwire the speaker (as it's currently wired with the XPA-100)
I figured this forum section was the best place to post this...so thanks in advance for your suggestions! |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Aug 7, 2020 23:23:30 GMT -5
For what I see the Gen 1 stuff selling for I'd go for a brand new PA-1 from Emotiva if your hell bent on Emotiva for an amp, up in Canada I can't believe what people are asking, right now I see a Gen 1 XPA-3 for like $850 which is more than what it sold for new back in 2011 even in Canadian funds as the dollar was par then.
Are you stuck on the Gen 1 amps or is it just what you are accustomed to ? , for example I see out of warranty XPA-5 amps selling for almost as much as I picked up my brand new Outlaw 7000X amp for and it has 7 channels not 5 and yes the XPA-5 amps have and always will be great amps IMO but no warranty and and used compared to new with warranty, some may care and some may not but for what I see some of this 10+ year old stuff selling for it's a big no thanks for me haha. What are the usual prices you see the XPA-2 ask for ??
Chad
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 7, 2020 23:53:28 GMT -5
... Split the center channel signal to both inputs, then biwire the speaker (as it's currently wired with the XPA-100) I assume you mean bi-amp, that’s what I’d do if you do end up with the XPA-2, I wouldn’t bridge. |
|
mak99
Minor Hero
Posts: 34
|
Post by mak99 on Aug 10, 2020 12:30:35 GMT -5
For what I see the Gen 1 stuff selling for I'd go for a brand new PA-1 from Emotiva if your hell bent on Emotiva for an amp, up in Canada I can't believe what people are asking, right now I see a Gen 1 XPA-3 for like $850 which is more than what it sold for new back in 2011 even in Canadian funds as the dollar was par then. Are you stuck on the Gen 1 amps or is it just what you are accustomed to ? , for example I see out of warranty XPA-5 amps selling for almost as much as I picked up my brand new Outlaw 7000X amp for and it has 7 channels not 5 and yes the XPA-5 amps have and always will be great amps IMO but no warranty and and used compared to new with warranty, some may care and some may not but for what I see some of this 10+ year old stuff selling for it's a big no thanks for me haha. What are the usual prices you see the XPA-2 ask for ?? Chad I've seen XPA-2 about $600, sometimes lower. I wouldn't think the PA-1 would give me the performance of an XPA-1 but others here might have a direct comparison on that? I do prefer the G1/G2 beefy construction as they seem like they could last forever, and would prefer a G1 only to keep all front three amps exactly the same generation. An XPA-3 or XPA-5 does not really interest me as this amp search would only be for the center channel. ... Split the center channel signal to both inputs, then biwire the speaker (as it's currently wired with the XPA-100) I assume you mean bi-amp, that’s what I’d do if you do end up with the XPA-2, I wouldn’t bridge. Yes, good point/correction - bi-amped. But any concern that the HF side would be driven by its own 300w amp? I would assume the LF side is better able to handle more power but I honestly don't know much about the technical side of watts going to woofers/mid-bass drivers, and equal watts going to the tweeter/midrange drivers. Thanks to both of you for your responses! |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 10, 2020 12:53:08 GMT -5
I assume you mean bi-amp, that’s what I’d do if you do end up with the XPA-2, I wouldn’t bridge. Yes, good point/correction - bi-amped. But any concern that the HF side would be driven by its own 300w amp? I would assume the LF side is better able to handle more power but I honestly don't know much about the technical side of watts going to woofers/mid-bass drivers, and equal watts going to the tweeter/midrange drivers. Thanks to both of you for your responses! Really the power is no different, when the jumpers are in place the tweeter is still seeing 300W, it’s just not ‘dedicated’. When you bi-amp each driver gets the same amount of power as if it were driven by a single channel, but the amp may see a slightly less complex load, and ‘works’ (delivers current) over a smaller range of frequencies. Some say passive bi-amping’s not worth it, and it is very much speaker dependent (I’ve heard it help multiple speakers), but given that amp and that speaker, I think it’s the best option for hook up. |
|
|
|
Post by rbk123 on Aug 10, 2020 16:52:57 GMT -5
So if I were to go with an XPA-2, what would be the preferred way to connect? I would keep the XPA-100 for the center, and just wait - you won't hear a difference and you're just putting a square peg in a round hole. The other recommendation to consider is using the Gen 2 for FR/FL and using one of the XPA-1L's for the center. |
|
mak99
Minor Hero
Posts: 34
|
Post by mak99 on Aug 10, 2020 18:36:13 GMT -5
So if I were to go with an XPA-2, what would be the preferred way to connect? I would keep the XPA-100 for the center, and just wait - you won't hear a difference and you're just putting a square peg in a round hole. The other recommendation to consider is using the Gen 2 for FR/FL and using one of the XPA-1L's for the center. Well, since upgrading the two XPA-100s with the XPA-1s in late 2019, it sure seems like the FL/FR are performing noticeably better than I hoped. It's hard to describe, but after watching a few movies I'm familiar with, the sound from the FL/FR speakers just seems effortless and easy. And now, the center feels like it's not "blending in" the same way it used to, to achieve that seamless front soundstage. When I was using the three XPA-100s, I felt like everything was balanced and "just matched" like it should. Maybe I should rerun Audyssey on the Marantz to see if that makes a difference, though that's no substitute for a full-blown audio calibration like Jeff Meier at AccuCal has done in years past, or at least Audyssey Pro which could be done by a good friend at Deep Dive AV. If I were to find a single XPA-1/G2 for a good price, I'd definitely consider that. I've looked on the Emporium here but nothing available lately. Ironically, in my quest for a third XPA-1 for the media room system I stumbled across another pair on Ebay last month. While I secretly cursed the seller for not having just a single amp for sale  , I ended up buying *that* pair to upgrade my old Rega amps (original Mira + original Maia, biamped) in my dedicated 2-ch system. Maybe I should have used the two XPA-100s for the 2-ch rig instead of re-purposing them to the everyday TV/music system on the main level to drive the LSiM703s... Oh, you mentioned an "XPA-1L for the center", but I do not have that model - just the XPA-1s/G1 and the XPA-100s/G1. |
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Aug 11, 2020 6:41:06 GMT -5
Heck I would hold out for an XPA-1. You already have 2 for your left right stage. Voice correlation and and all. Also the XPA-1 stays fully Differential Balanced from input to output. Yeah, makes a difference. Everything else is semi complementary. Time is on your side as you have a good amp going for the center channel already. Hang in there and wait for an XPA-1. It will turn up for sure. Also that beefy linear power supply is mighty cool too if that is your taste too. I would say unless you are in a hurry, wait for an XPA-1.
|
|
mak99
Minor Hero
Posts: 34
|
Post by mak99 on Aug 11, 2020 18:22:55 GMT -5
Heck I would hold out for an XPA-1. You already have 2 for your left right stage. I think that's what I'll do - plus it'll let my credit card cool off a bit before slamming it thru the ol' clicker again, for those of us that remember those old-school devices and carbon copies of yester-decade  . I also just bought a used XSP-1 (arriving Monday) for the 2-ch system to replace the Rega Mira, which gives me the option to use XLR connections. I'm looking forward to comparing the Emotiva and Rega differences. Good thing I've been making a killing in the stock market this year (up almost 100% since Jan!) so that I don't feel guilty for spending a little $$ on some fun stuff... |
|
|
|
Post by rbk123 on Aug 12, 2020 21:46:34 GMT -5
since upgrading the two XPA-100s with the XPA-1s in late 2019, it sure seems like the FL/FR are performing noticeably better than I hoped. It's hard to describe, but after watching a few movies I'm familiar with, the sound from the FL/FR speakers just seems effortless and easy. And now, the center feels like it's not "blending in" the same way it used to, to achieve that seamless front soundstage. When I was using the three XPA-100s, I felt like everything was balanced and "just matched" like it should. Maybe I should rerun Audyssey on the Marantz to see if that makes a difference, though that's no substitute for a full-blown audio calibration like Jeff Meier at AccuCal has done in years past, or at least Audyssey Pro which could be done by a good friend at Deep Dive AV. Oh, you mentioned an "XPA-1L for the center", but I do not have that model - just the XPA-1s/G1 and the XPA-100s/G1. A couple of things: 1. the gain on the XPA-1's is a lot higher (34.5db) than the XPA-100, so that is a very big factor. 2. musically your mains are now really performing well with the superior amp that the XPA-1's are. There's not a lot of music in the center, plus the speaker performance limitations of any sideways designed center are now more apparent, but especially if the mains are playing noticeably louder due to the higher gain. For my -1L comment, that's due to my aging eyesight; it looked like you wrote 1L when you really wrote 1/G1, so ignore. *However*, you could keep an eye out for a 1L for your center - that would be a beast which is highly competitive to the -1's and should be much cheaper. |
|
mak99
Minor Hero
Posts: 34
|
Post by mak99 on Aug 15, 2020 0:16:56 GMT -5
A couple of things: 1. the gain on the XPA-1's is a lot higher (34.5db) than the XPA-100, so that is a very big factor. 2. musically your mains are now really performing well with the superior amp that the XPA-1's are. There's not a lot of music in the center, plus the speaker performance limitations of any sideways designed center are now more apparent, but especially if the mains are playing noticeably louder due to the higher gain. For my -1L comment, that's due to my aging eyesight; it looked like you wrote 1L when you really wrote 1/G1, so ignore. *However*, you could keep an eye out for a 1L for your center - that would be a beast which is highly competitive to the -1's and should be much cheaper. 1. The XPA manual I downloaded from (somewhere) shows the gain at 32dB? XPA-100 shows 29db... 2. The gain difference might be why the center seems to not be playing as well - good comment, so I'll at least run some test tones w/ my sound meter. 3. Sadly, I have the same eyesight . But hadn't thought of a XPA-1L in lieu of an XPA-1. FWIW, I do have some concert videos I enjoy (ex: Eagles Farewell 1 Tour), so would this be a valid reason to prefer an XPA-1 since there is quite a bit of music/vocals coming from the center? I listened to this last weekend at near-reference levels, and the two XPA-1's were quite warm to the touch. Though I didn't feel the XPA-100 to see if it was equally as warm... I have no problems spending a bit more for an XPA-1 vs an XPA-1L, as most likely this third amp will be the last amp upgrade I'll ever do for the front channels. I'm hoping to redo my equipment rack in the next week or so (from Salamander Twin 30/Single 20 to Triple 40) to get all the gear better organized as it's gotten a bit out of hand this year - the hazards of buying bigger and better stuff! EDIT - tried to insert a picture but not showing up...  |
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Aug 15, 2020 0:42:58 GMT -5
Hi. The gain should be the samee XPA-100 is I think 32 and so is the XPA-1 gen 1. But yes...you should hold out for a single XPA-1. I mean why not. These are fantastic amps and there's no reason not to. Post a WTB ad in the emporium on this forum and you may get some responses. Do you have the gen 1 or 2? As for will the XPA-2 work. Yes. And it will sound good Make Advisable to match it to the generation. Gen 1 is 32 db gain, gen 2 is 29 db gain. |
|
|
|
Post by rbk123 on Aug 15, 2020 8:46:06 GMT -5
1. The XPA manual I downloaded from (somewhere) shows the gain at 32dB? XPA-100 shows 29db... Per page 19 of the XPA-G1 manual, the gain is 34.5db www.manualslib.com/manual/473513/Emotiva-Xpa-1.html?page=19#manualYou won't hear a diff on the center between a 1L and a 1, but they will be gain matched so one less thing, and if you can hold out then there's nothing wrong with waiting for a -1. Apparently Gar has the same bad eyesight as both of us if he can't tell whether you have the gen 1 or 2. |
|
mak99
Minor Hero
Posts: 34
|
Post by mak99 on Aug 15, 2020 14:23:19 GMT -5
Hi. The gain should be the samee XPA-100 is I think 32 and so is the XPA-1 gen 1. But yes...you should hold out for a single XPA-1. I mean why not. These are fantastic amps and there's no reason not to. Post a WTB ad in the emporium on this forum and you may get some responses. Do you have the gen 1 or 2? As for will the XPA-2 work. Yes. And it will sound good Make Advisable to match it to the generation. Gen 1 is 32 db gain, gen 2 is 29 db gain. 1. The XPA manual I downloaded from (somewhere) shows the gain at 32dB? XPA-100 shows 29db... Per page 19 of the XPA-G1 manual, the gain is 34.5db www.manualslib.com/manual/473513/Emotiva-Xpa-1.html?page=19#manualYou won't hear a diff on the center between a 1L and a 1, but they will be gain matched so one less thing, and if you can hold out then there's nothing wrong with waiting for a -1. Apparently Gar has the same bad eyesight as both of us if he can't tell whether you have the gen 1 or 2. Re: the gains, the manuals I downloaded many moons ago (not sure where from) shows a general XPA amps manual (XPA-1 thru XPA-5) with all models at 32db. And the XPA-100 manual I have shows a 32db gain. Regardless which is correct for the XPA-1 (32 or 34.5), an audio calibration should take care of any differences. My plan is to buy another G1 amp to match the other two I already have. Geez, that'll put me at five XPA-1s, two XPA-100s (a third unused), and one UPA-7 thruout the house - oh, and the XSP-1/G1 for the 2-ch system that arrived on Thursday. I think I need therapy... There's an XPA-2/G1 for sale semi-locally that I might go demo - if I buy it, then find an XPA-1 down the road I can always sell the XPA-2. Thanks again to everyone that's given me great advice!
|
|
|
|
Post by rbk123 on Aug 15, 2020 20:30:01 GMT -5
|
|
, I ended up buying *that* pair to upgrade my old Rega amps (original Mira + original Maia, biamped) in my dedicated 2-ch system. Maybe I should have used the two XPA-100s for the 2-ch rig instead of re-purposing them to the everyday TV/music system on the main level to drive the LSiM703s...
. 
