DAC Poll

[taoggniklat]

Mar 3, 2010 16:51:32 GMT -5 joel said:

Mar 3, 2010 16:42:03 GMT -5 taoggniklat said:

Based on the images he posted, it looks like the DAC will have volume control so yes, it can be used as a Pre-amp and can be plugged directly into the UPA-1's.

*note*That is an assumption on my part based on the images above.

Thanks, assumed that aswell. Only question is how big of difference it would be to get a "proper" preamp. Will probably get one eventually, but if this one can get the job done with good results I can wait a few months for the XSP-1

The real question is, do you need to get a stand alone pre-amp? THe only real raeson to do so is to add additional switching capabilities for your analog sources, or for use in HT bypass. Some pre-amps have low pass filtering options.

But if you don't need those features, and the dac serves as all the pre-amp you need...why get yet another box?

Just questions to think about

[Lonnie]

OK so here is the mule.

Remeber I said it wasn't pretty.



This is just the main board. I put some tags on it so you would know what most of it is.




This is the board in the chassis. Please note this is a full size chassis here not some empty shell with a tiny board in side. This my friends is the real deal with 6 discrete output stages, selectable inputs, volume, segmented power supply and more. It can easily do in excess of 12v on the outputs. ;D

[DYohn]

6 output stages? Whoa.

Now just put a 6c45 tube buffer on that sucker and I'm in.

[Lonnie]

One last thought here. Just from the preliminary specs of the mule and listening to it, I can say with all honesty it will kick the crap out of a very well known unit that is out there and the price.................under 400. ;D

[edvb]

Lonnie

I plan to use my i7 PC with a Realtek ALC889 onboard audio and Win 7 operating system. I want to use the digital coax out with a Belden 1694A cable 30' long with Canare RCAP connectors.

I also need to have the bass management and Bass EQ of the UMC-1 for the pair of 12' Transmission line subs I have built into my floor joists running in mono.

Will the Dac going to the UMC-1 sound better than going straight to the UMC-1 in this application?
Do you think I will have jitter problems going that length? Does the DAC reclock?
Is there a better solution? I can not move the PC so the minimium cable length is 30'?

[DYohn]

Mar 3, 2010 18:11:12 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

One last thought here. Just from the preliminary specs of the mule and listening to it, I can say with all honesty it will kick the crap out of a very well known unit that is out there and the price.................under 400. ;D

So what did you use as your Benchmark for comparison?

;D

[gocolts]

Mar 3, 2010 18:11:12 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

One last thought here. Just from the preliminary specs of the mule and listening to it, I can say with all honesty it will kick the crap out of a very well known unit that is out there and the price.................under 400. ;D

The mule might kick the crap out of it, but until we all can buy our own, that other well known unit wins based on availability alone.... ;D

So...ETA?!? I have a cable box, HD DVD player, Blu-Ray player, CD player, and Wii all waiting on this thing in my 2-channel "wife friendly" system. My USP-1/UPA-2 wants company...

[elwicksto]

on a slightly related topic, i'm currently running apple lossless thru airtunes around my house, and i'm wondering how HDCD content is treated (in case of optical outputs being used on each mac/airport_express). options include:

1) hdcd info is decoded during ripping, and stored in the losseless file (~20bits/channel), so PCM20/PCM24 goes into an external dac.

2a) ripping hdcd on my mac treats them as normal cds & hdcd info is lost, so one gets 15 bits of signal, and 1 bit of noise going to an external dac.

2b) ripping hdcd on my mac treats them as normal cds, _but_ hdcd info is preserved, so routing (optical) bitstream to hdcd aware dac will apply proper filtering. if this is the case, i'm (of course) wondering if XDA-1 decodes HDCD bitstreams.

3) other__________

any one know which is the actual case here? i've done a bit of looking on the net, but didn't find any definitive answers.

[ddhd]

Okay where does the line start?

[strindl]

Mar 3, 2010 20:14:38 GMT -5 ddhd said:

Okay where does the line start?

right behind me.

[MikeWI]

Mar 3, 2010 18:11:12 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

One last thought here. Just from the preliminary specs of the mule and listening to it, I can say with all honesty it will kick the crap out of a very well known unit that is out there and the price.................under 400. ;D

I think the original estimated price was $300.

Mike

[dreadpiratemarc]

If I recall from early talk about it, I believe you would be able to use the USB as an input from the PC (a la Cambridge Audio). In that way, it would function like an external sound card, and may be capable of better data transfer rates (higher resolution sound) than if using a normal SPDIF connection. (Or it may not, only Lonnie knows for sure at this point.)

I think you're spot on, twilkins. Either USB or coax or optical from PC to DAC, RCA from DAC to USP-1, and volume control with the USP-1. That's how I plan to use it. As part of a home theater using the HT Bypass feature on the USP-1, that's the best way I think. However, if you have a dedicated 2-channel system with only digital sources you could forgo the USP-1. The DAC has it's own volume control so you could go straight from it to an amp. Lots of options.

[cankin]

Is the balanced output "true" fully differential balanced?

Is the upsampling rate adjustable? (Bypass/48/96/192/384)?

Thanks

[Erwin.BE]

Mar 3, 2010 16:37:41 GMT -5 twilkins said:

Sorry; meant USB to the PC.

There are of course players that connect via Ethernet to play Internet radio, like Sonos or Naim UnitiQute:
www.naimaudio.com/unitiqute
Cool product, also has FM/DAB, costs 2,000$ and even has a 2 x 30 Watt power amp
Maybe a good idea for 2011, Emotiva? Without the power amp of course, but adding the "normal" Emotiva balanced output. A full analogue pre-amp like the USP-1 seems very old school to me now, even if I have a decent turntable from ProJect.

I invested in a pair of XPA-1 and the Jamo speaker were not cheap also, so 300$ or 400$ is no deal-breaker if the XDA-1 performs like promised. I will try without a pre-amp first. I already have the ERC-1 which I will connect optically. And I will probably start with a simple Apple Airport Express for streaming, connected in the same way. I might replace it with a Mac mini server 1TB if I find a way to sync its music content with my iMac. Remote is the iPod Touch (AKA iTouch), but I see a very good whole house domotica + music remote in the iPad... it's cheaper and way more versatile than the top-end Philips touch screens.

[Rodrigo]

Lonnie,

How does the unit manages the volume control, digitally?

Thanks!

Rodrigo

[MikeWI]

Mar 4, 2010 7:25:18 GMT -5 Rodrigo said:

Lonnie,

How does the unit manages the volume control, digitally?

Thanks!

Rodrigo

I was wondering the same thing.
Does the DAC volume control attenuate quality?
If not, why not?
If used with a pre-amp (eg USP-1 as in my setup), then should the volume be set at 100%?

Or....if I have two sources:
1) computer via USB, and
2) Emotiva ERC-1 CD player

...and the DAC volume control doesn't attenuate quality, do I even need the USP-1 pre-amp?

Thanks,

Mike

[topcat]

Mar 3, 2010 21:42:19 GMT -5 MikeWI said:

Mar 3, 2010 18:11:12 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

One last thought here. Just from the preliminary specs of the mule and listening to it, I can say with all honesty it will kick the crap out of a very well known unit that is out there and the price.................under 400. ;D

I think the original estimated price was $300.

Mike

Mike, in response to your above comment:



Re: DAC Poll
« Reply #77 on Jul 8, 2009, 10:18am »

Jul 7, 2009, 8:18pm, akai wrote:
An interesting stance to take? Why would I want to pay more if I can get a good DAC for a good price?

If EMO wants to do a DAC based on the same DAC as the ERC-1, then EMO might as well incorporate the access to DAC on the ERC-1, everything that is needed for a DAC is already there. The additional cost would be minor, this will allow the owner to be able to just throw in a CD instead of firing up his/her computer to play some music. There are times when I just play one CD through my CDP because I may only half an hour to kill. A combo CDP/DAC would accomplish both at a reasonable additional cost to the ERC-1 (just like the Cambridge A - 840C).


I believe the new McIntosh MCD 500 uses the Sabre chip, however, the design and the implementation of the MCD 500 is their own design.

I am with you on the EMO's philosophy of good value for $$$ that is why I think that EMO can design and build a medium/high quality DAC to compete with Benchmark/Del Canto at a much more competitive price. EMO may have the economy of scale that other niches players do not have (Neko, Stello).

Why would I want to pay more if I can get a good DAC for a good price?

There already are tons of good to excellent (for this price point) sub $500 DACs out there . I am not sure if we need another one. I am not sure if EMO will be able to attract the crowd that are in this target market. What I think is an opportunity for EMO is to produce the Benchmark USB quality or higher (both the built and sound) and priced it very very competitively to attract a mid level DAC buyers. Since DAC is still a hot product and assuming that EMO can succeed in its new DAC, it will be a proof of its "best bang for the buck" philisophy to the general public, leverage this to the rest of the product lines and ........there is not limit to future success.

mP


It is a very interesting argument you make, but I believe we can build a fully differential 192 DAC with selectable inputs, discrete output stage, remote, etc, for around 300.00 and meet or exceed the quality of the Benchmark. I could be wrong here, so don't hold me to it, but it really shoudn't cost anything close to what others are asking.

[MikeWI]

Cool.

[upgradeurges]

I've been ghosting around this forum for a while learning about Emotiva products. I had been thinking about a DAC and was leaning towards the DacMagic, but as soon as I saw that Emo were making a DAC I knew it had to be my first taste of Emo gear. It could be a slippery slope from here! I already have a pair of UPA1s on my wishlist! Looking forward to full specs and pricing, preferably before the pound falls into oblivion !

[cankin]

Mar 4, 2010 7:43:49 GMT -5 topcat said:

It is a very interesting argument you make, but I believe we can build a fully differential 192 DAC with selectable inputs, discrete output stage, remote, etc, for around 300.00 and meet or exceed the quality of the Benchmark. I could be wrong here, so don't hold me to it, but it really shoudn't cost anything close to what others are asking.

One of the killer feature of Benchmark is that it doesn't need any drivers to transfer 24/96 over USB, if EMO can provide this feature at ~$300, I'd be really surprised but it seems highly unlikely.