TJHUB
Emo VIPs
Posts: 488
|
Post by TJHUB on Jan 15, 2010 23:28:53 GMT -5
Hey jlafrenz, Have you done any tube rolling with your DAC? I have read that many people have great results changing out the stock tubes and one even upgraded the op-amps in the Music Hall. John I'll let Judd answer your questions, but I want to tell you what happened to me (and a friend of mine). The first time I heard my Music Hall DAC, I loved the tube sound. The tremendously wide sound stage, the 3D imaging, and a much more realistic or "live" as most state it sound. However, the stock Electro-Harmonix tube sounded distorted and not coherent. I did a lot of tube rolling and settled on a Mazda 7308 that sounded PERFECT. All the great stuff I heard initially with a much more coherent sound and much less distortion. GREAT! Then I started modding the DAC. The first thing I did was upgraded the stock opamps to Burson's. The change this brought was AMAZING. Everything became crystal clear and pinpoint accurate. I was shocked as I thought things were really great before the upgrade. I've never heard a DAC sound better. So being me, I ended up further modding the DAC with a DEXA clock and upgraded diodes. Basically...no change... The reason I know for a fact that there was no change is that a friend of mine has the same DAC. We have A-B'd the DACs in many configurations and it's surprising how there is NO DIFFERENCE with any of the mods other than the Burson's. One really funny thing is that during these comparisons, we ended up comparing the DACs using the only tubes both of us owned, the Electro-Harmonix tubes. We could not tell a difference between the two DACs at all with the same tubes installed. So then I swapped in my beloved Mazda and the difference was so small, we both decided that there is no way we'd spend big money on any more NOS tubes. Seriously, the Electro-Harmonix tube at $20.00 sound freakin' fantastic now. As a matter of fact, I'm using it as I think I prefer the sound over my EXPENSIVE Mazda tube. The moral of this story is the Music Hall DAC 25.2 is a VERY nice sounding DAC. You MUST upgrade the opamps to the Burson's and DO NOT tube roll or mod anything else.
|
|
jlafrenz
Global Moderator
I don't want to jump in, unless this music's thumping
Posts: 7,722
|
Post by jlafrenz on Jan 15, 2010 23:39:49 GMT -5
^^ I sent him a PM
|
|
scottl
Sensei
Stereo Pack Rat
Posts: 207
|
Post by scottl on Jan 15, 2010 23:41:14 GMT -5
I'm just wondering why Emotiva didn't just add digital inputs to the ERC-1, as Cambridge is now doing on their top CDPs. HK, Wadia, others also do this. Would have made the separate DAC product unnecessary. Even better would have been to integrate a DAC into the USP-1, a pure analog pre seems to me a bit dated today. I understand that would be a substantially different product (unlike the CDP with digital ins), but still it would be great to have a single analog/digital pre unit. Cambridge is still making their separate DAC, and it's selling better than any of their CD players. The addition of digital inputs to a CD player is pretty handy for some, but the hundreds of millions (billions now?) of CD transports out there make a separate DAC an easier purchase for a lot of people to justify (all those desktop PC-based systems would be really crowded with an ERC-1, for instance). From the number of people who have requested digital inputs on the ERC-1, I bet Emotiva’s next player will have some. Answer to your question about the USP-1 is that adding digital to an analog pre-amp defeats the whole purpose. If you want that then buy a processor. As far as being dated, I would argue that as the USP-1 has been a hot seller and sources such as vinyl are back on the rise. I think you're right about the rest, but a 2-channel preamp with a DAC (or DAC option) seems totally reasonable to me - Bryston's BP-26, -16, and -6 would be excellent examples, but there are other fine-sounding ones on the market. Unless the circuitry were crammed into too small a case to afford sufficient isolation of the analog and digital stages, it should be great for the right application (combining a music server and a turntable in one system is not far-fetched). I think that's Emotiva's reason for sticking with separate, dedicated devices in these three categories so far (CD player, analog preamp, and DAC) is probably simplicity. You buy the functionality you want, and not extras that you may not need but will drive the price up for everyone. It's also easier to sell and promote.
|
|
mokes
Minor Hero
Posts: 10
|
Post by mokes on Jan 16, 2010 2:57:55 GMT -5
I'm just wondering why Emotiva didn't just add digital inputs to the ERC-1, as Cambridge is now doing on their top CDPs. HK, Wadia, others also do this. Would have made the separate DAC product unnecessary. Even better would have been to integrate a DAC into the USP-1, a pure analog pre seems to me a bit dated today. I understand that would be a substantially different product (unlike the CDP with digital ins), but still it would be great to have a single analog/digital pre unit. Answer to question one is because some people want just a DAC and not a CD player. As well, the DAC will have more connections including USB than the CD player would likely have. Answer to your question about the USP-1 is that adding digital to an analog pre-amp defeats the whole purpose. If you want that then buy a processor. As far as being dated, I would argue that as the USP-1 has been a hot seller and sources such as vinyl are back on the rise. Adding S/PDIF inputs to a CD player is a relatively small addition. USB in would involve more. With streamers getting so popular digital ins should be placed almost wherever it makes sense. On a CD player it comes at little cost. At least add S/PDIF. As to the processor - that is a totally different animal geared for home theaters, mostly irrelevant to audio-only folks.
|
|
mokes
Minor Hero
Posts: 10
|
Post by mokes on Jan 16, 2010 3:17:26 GMT -5
Cambridge is still making their separate DAC, and it's selling better than any of their CD players. The addition of digital inputs to a CD player is pretty handy for some, but the hundreds of millions (billions now?) of CD transports out there make a separate DAC an easier purchase for a lot of people to justify (all those desktop PC-based systems would be really crowded with an ERC-1, for instance). From the number of people who have requested digital inputs on the ERC-1, I bet Emotiva’s next player will have some. DacMagic costs less than half the price of the 740C CDP which has digital ins, thus the high sales volume. Purely a marketing decision by Cambridge to differentiate their different CDPs like this. Emotiva (thankfully) is a different company, with the agenda of best bang for buck, simple product lineup not having 10 different CDPs. Digital ins on the ERC-1 would be a huge value add due to the onboard good DAC. DAC + preamp is a different product than USP-1, but in my eyes this is more the preamp for 2010 than a pure analog beast.
|
|
|
Post by houston1 on Jan 16, 2010 7:16:47 GMT -5
I'll let Judd answer your questions, but I want to tell you what happened to me (and a friend of mine). The first time I heard my Music Hall DAC, I loved the tube sound. The tremendously wide sound stage, the 3D imaging, and a much more realistic or "live" as most state it sound. However, the stock Electro-Harmonix tube sounded distorted and not coherent. I did a lot of tube rolling and settled on a Mazda 7308 that sounded PERFECT. All the great stuff I heard initially with a much more coherent sound and much less distortion. GREAT! Then I started modding the DAC. The first thing I did was upgraded the stock opamps to Burson's. The change this brought was AMAZING. Everything became crystal clear and pinpoint accurate. I was shocked as I thought things were really great before the upgrade. I've never heard a DAC sound better. So being me, I ended up further modding the DAC with a DEXA clock and upgraded diodes. Basically...no change... The reason I know for a fact that there was no change is that a friend of mine has the same DAC. We have A-B'd the DACs in many configurations and it's surprising how there is NO DIFFERENCE with any of the mods other than the Burson's. One really funny thing is that during these comparisons, we ended up comparing the DACs using the only tubes both of us owned, the Electro-Harmonix tubes. We could not tell a difference between the two DACs at all with the same tubes installed. So then I swapped in my beloved Mazda and the difference was so small, we both decided that there is no way we'd spend big money on any more NOS tubes. Seriously, the Electro-Harmonix tube at $20.00 sound freakin' fantastic now. As a matter of fact, I'm using it as I think I prefer the sound over my EXPENSIVE Mazda tube. The moral of this story is the Music Hall DAC 25.2 is a VERY nice sounding DAC. You MUST upgrade the opamps to the Burson's and DO NOT tube roll or mod anything else. Thank you for the response TJHUB ;D This will be my last post concerning this DAC, because I don't want to take this thread any more off-topic. The reason that I was curious is that I want to experiement with some tube gear in my system, and I thought a DAC would be a good (less expensive) start. Plus, the idea that a few upgrades would make such a huge difference and kick the DAC up a considerable amount in sound quality is appealing. I am still anxiously awaiting the Emotiva DAC, and I hope there is an announcement soon concerning a release date.
|
|
TJHUB
Emo VIPs
Posts: 488
|
Post by TJHUB on Jan 16, 2010 9:34:02 GMT -5
I'll let Judd answer your questions, but I want to tell you what happened to me (and a friend of mine). The first time I heard my Music Hall DAC, I loved the tube sound. The tremendously wide sound stage, the 3D imaging, and a much more realistic or "live" as most state it sound. However, the stock Electro-Harmonix tube sounded distorted and not coherent. I did a lot of tube rolling and settled on a Mazda 7308 that sounded PERFECT. All the great stuff I heard initially with a much more coherent sound and much less distortion. GREAT! Then I started modding the DAC. The first thing I did was upgraded the stock opamps to Burson's. The change this brought was AMAZING. Everything became crystal clear and pinpoint accurate. I was shocked as I thought things were really great before the upgrade. I've never heard a DAC sound better. So being me, I ended up further modding the DAC with a DEXA clock and upgraded diodes. Basically...no change... The reason I know for a fact that there was no change is that a friend of mine has the same DAC. We have A-B'd the DACs in many configurations and it's surprising how there is NO DIFFERENCE with any of the mods other than the Burson's. One really funny thing is that during these comparisons, we ended up comparing the DACs using the only tubes both of us owned, the Electro-Harmonix tubes. We could not tell a difference between the two DACs at all with the same tubes installed. So then I swapped in my beloved Mazda and the difference was so small, we both decided that there is no way we'd spend big money on any more NOS tubes. Seriously, the Electro-Harmonix tube at $20.00 sound freakin' fantastic now. As a matter of fact, I'm using it as I think I prefer the sound over my EXPENSIVE Mazda tube. The moral of this story is the Music Hall DAC 25.2 is a VERY nice sounding DAC. You MUST upgrade the opamps to the Burson's and DO NOT tube roll or mod anything else. Thank you for the response TJHUB ;D This will be my last post concerning this DAC, because I don't want to take this thread any more off-topic. The reason that I was curious is that I want to experiement with some tube gear in my system, and I thought a DAC would be a good (less expensive) start. Plus, the idea that a few upgrades would make such a huge difference and kick the DAC up a considerable amount in sound quality is appealing. I am still anxiously awaiting the Emotiva DAC, and I hope there is an announcement soon concerning a release date. I too will stop derailing this thread, but I think EVERYONE should try a piece of tube gear because if you don't you are truly missing out. Whether it's a tube preamp or DAC, do it!! I can't believe I fell for all that "tubes are for flavor, warm sound, and distortion" crap. There is nothing flavored, warm, or distorted sounding about my setup as I would never allow any of that. I will never go without a tube gear in my setups from now on.
|
|
|
Post by cheetah on Jan 20, 2010 18:47:43 GMT -5
Hi, any updates about the dac? I'm really looking for that now! Rendering, spec sheet, news? Wish granted ;D ;D ;D Final samples arriving right at the end of the month and will post actual pics then. Any actual pics up yet? Estimated release date? I'd love to pair one of these up to a pair of UPA-1's and connect it all to my laptop.
|
|
cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,927
|
Post by cawgijoe on Jan 20, 2010 18:59:07 GMT -5
My birthday is in April. Can we have this for sale by then? Please?!
|
|
|
Post by aarheadc on Jan 21, 2010 8:55:40 GMT -5
I'm planning on having a Apple TV hooked up to an Emo DAC, but heard that the Apple TV has a lot of jitter. Will I need a reclocker between the Apple TV and the Emo DAC, or will the Emo DAC do the reclocking for me? Thanks
|
|
MikeWI
Emo VIPs
DC-1, ERC-1, USP-1, UPA-2, Sub 10, Emotiva 4S
Posts: 346
|
Post by MikeWI on Jan 22, 2010 4:24:26 GMT -5
I was looking at the initial rendering and then the 12-7-09 rendering and just noticed...
It looks like the name has changed from XDC-1 to XDA-1.
Looks cool. Waiting for release date, price, and specs...
This is what I've pieced together for specs/fx:
- estimated cost - $300 - 1 RU high
Inputs (both) 1) AES/EBU 1) Coax Digital 1) Optical Digital 1) USB
Internals Dac very similar to what is in the ERC-1. Burr Brown buffers coming out of the DAC and a fully discrete output stage like what is in the ERC-1 and USP-1.
Outputs 2) Unbalanced RCAs 2) Balanced XLRs (all outputs are hgh voltage)
Mike
|
|
|
Post by jannick on Jan 22, 2010 8:33:15 GMT -5
Seems Lonnie is back now. Hope he brought an xda-1 with him
|
|
ratmice
Emo VIPs
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Posts: 1,853
|
Post by ratmice on Jan 22, 2010 8:43:42 GMT -5
I'm salivating for this bad boy, bring it on!
|
|
lonnie
Administrator
GM
OZ- 'Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain'
Posts: 1,292
|
Post by lonnie on Jan 22, 2010 10:58:58 GMT -5
Seems Lonnie is back now. Hope he brought an xda-1 with him I'll never tell, well maybe I might. ;D I might even show next week. ;D But don't tell anyone. ;D
|
|
|
Post by dotvibe on Jan 22, 2010 16:16:25 GMT -5
ooooooh, such a tease!
|
|
|
Post by nureintier on Jan 26, 2010 11:33:24 GMT -5
Will there be a remote?
|
|
|
Post by 2infinity on Jan 26, 2010 12:02:19 GMT -5
I can't wait to get my hands on one of these! Will be a great solution for streaming off an airport express using optical out!
|
|
|
Post by aarheadc on Jan 27, 2010 1:34:47 GMT -5
The rendering shows a remote sensor, so even if it doesn't come with one, it should be able to receive signals from a universal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2010 0:18:30 GMT -5
I can't wait to get my grubby little paws on this baby. I'm sure it will sound so good I'll be filled with EMOtions? huh huh ?
|
|
lonnie
Administrator
GM
OZ- 'Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain'
Posts: 1,292
|
Post by lonnie on Jan 28, 2010 0:33:22 GMT -5
I can't wait to get my grubby little paws on this baby. I'm sure it will sound so good I'll be filled with EMOtions? huh huh ? I have been testing and listening to it for some time now and it sounds incredible. It actually sounds better than the ERC (there a reason for this which I will fill you in on later). But it just needs a little more shake down time and I will be giving you more info then. ;D
|
|