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Post by brutiarti on Sept 21, 2020 14:48:13 GMT -5
Actually I might try some magnepans, this review picked my interest. Let us know. I myself have been interested in the 3.7's. I requested the quote from magnepan for the LRS ones. I want to try them in my office.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 21, 2020 15:40:09 GMT -5
Well, that's .....your opinion. sniff sniff sniff
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 22, 2020 8:00:52 GMT -5
My opinion...
Measurements of dipole, bipole, line-source, and omni-directional speakers are specific to the room in which they're measured. Due to their radiation pattern, they will always sound differently in different rooms. In fact positioning within a room will always change the measurements as well. The previous sentences are not opinions - they are facts. Although the same things are applicable to conventional point-source speakers, the room effects are significantly less due to their much-narrower dispersion pattern.
Therefore, it's fair to conclude that Magnepan speakers are virtually impossible to measure without a "reference room" that can be used for context - and no such room exists.
Since opinions are ALL that we have for Magnepan speaker evaluation, and since virtually every opinion was formed in a different room, the consensus of opinions is the most valid evaluation. The (statistically valid) consensus of opinion for Magnepan planar speakers (formed over decades and with hundreds of opinions) is that they are uniformly excellent speakers.
Any site claiming to "measure" the speakers with a contrary conclusion is obviously wrong. Therefore, ASR missed the target with their "review" and consequently should be totally ignored.
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Post by garbulky on Sept 22, 2020 14:41:04 GMT -5
My opinion... Measurements of dipole, bipole, line-source, and omni-directional speakers are specific to the room in which they're measured. Due to their radiation pattern, they will always sound differently in different rooms. In fact positioning within a room will always change the measurements as well. The previous sentences are not opinions - they are facts. Although the same things are applicable to conventional point-source speakers, the room effects are significantly less due to their much-narrower dispersion pattern. Therefore, it's fair to conclude that Magnepan speakers are virtually impossible to measure without a "reference room" that can be used for context - and no such room exists. Since opinions are ALL that we have for Magnepan speaker evaluation, and since virtually every opinion was formed in a different room, the consensus of opinions is the most valid evaluation. The (statistically valid) consensus of opinion for Magnepan planar speakers (formed over decades and with hundreds of opinions) is that they are uniformly excellent speakers. Any site claiming to "measure" the speakers with a contrary conclusion is obviously wrong. Therefore, ASR missed the target with their "review" and consequently should be totally ignored. Don't ignore them without carefully reading their procedure. They really did try. ASR is well aware of the bipolar nature of the panels. ASR uses a Kippel measurement system that takes in this case two thousand measurements in different places to factor out the room to attempt a pseudo "anechoic" response. Due to the nature of Maggies the Kippel system had trouble creating a larger error than it usually does. In this case their error exceeded 1%. The Kippel system has an error calculation system where it can tell you how much error can be expected from their "anechoic" response calculation. In terms of actually measuring the Maggies, ASR probably got a lot further than other publications have. ASR also compared their measurement with a measurement taken of the speaker by Kippel published in Audio express magazine at another location and they found significant similarity between the two. They produced some useful data including this. The actual directivity of the speakers. Vertical The beamwidth and the frequencies
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 22, 2020 15:09:20 GMT -5
I don't deny that Amir used his Kippel system heroically. I still claim that, in this particular case, the measurements are virtually useless. They do NOT describe how the speaker will sound in any given room, which is what the readers really want to know.
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Post by audiobill on Sept 22, 2020 16:00:36 GMT -5
Again, please read Sigfried Linkwitz ; enough of Amir Kippel.
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Post by garbulky on Sept 22, 2020 16:42:58 GMT -5
Again, please read Sigfried Linkwitz ; enough of Amir Kippel. I want to hear his LX521
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Post by mauriceminor on Sept 22, 2020 16:43:34 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on Sept 22, 2020 16:51:22 GMT -5
I don't deny that Amir used his Kippel system heroically. I still claim that, in this particular case, the measurements are virtually useless. They do NOT describe how the speaker will sound in any given room, which is what the readers really want to know. The only true measure of how a speaker will sound in a room is when it is heard by one's own ears. But the measurements aren't useless though. They tell us general things about the bass and treble capabilities of the speaker and the narrow directivity on the vertical plane. The measurement also showed poor capability for high volume output. For instanced - use a sub and don't run the maggies full range. Pay attention to how tall you are seated. Don't plan on bringing the house down with the LRS. Our ears are very forgiving on some things and very discerning on others. Therefore, measurements should not be taken as anything but what they are. Some measurements could look very poor on paper, but in reality, the ear will happily get along with them. Poor treble response above 10khz? Hey, how much attention do we really pay to 15 khz tones, right? We might notice the ommission only on comparison. While some measurements will show minor distortions and our brains will hate the sound. Poor capability at 200 hz to 500 hz? Yeah, we're gonna notice and not like it.
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Post by audiobill on Sept 23, 2020 4:03:31 GMT -5
Bottom line, Planars are very difficult to measure, but sound great.
Sonics win.
End of story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 5:58:21 GMT -5
Well, that's .....your opinion. sniff sniff sniff Hey, what the hell heck are you sniffing? We've got a solution for that bad habit!
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 23, 2020 7:19:54 GMT -5
Bottom line, Planars are very difficult to measure, but sound great. Sonics win. End of story. Love my planars! Mark
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Post by brutiarti on Sept 23, 2020 8:55:00 GMT -5
15 weeks lead time to get the LRS, wow
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 23, 2020 9:05:04 GMT -5
Describing him as a cult leader as someone has done here gives him too much credit. I prefer the terms wannabe and poseur.
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Post by mauriceminor on Sept 23, 2020 9:48:10 GMT -5
Describing him as a cult leader as someone has done here gives him too much credit. I prefer the terms wannabe and poseur. Shades of W.C. Fields: "The man is worse than a murderer. He's a road hog."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 10:29:41 GMT -5
Ah Yes
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Post by donh50 on Sept 25, 2020 17:41:42 GMT -5
I’m of the opinion it’s a bunch of folks that own no high end equipment that study spec sheets and comment. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I thought the review was pretty accurate based on my experience with Magnepan since the late 1970's and having them in my system until a couple of years ago. I do know Amir, however, and he definitely does not care for panels. I read it mainly for the measurements, which were pretty much what I expected. They are great little speakers but have their limitations (I myself prefer the larger models). I love Maggies, but understand their limitations. I started to post my equipment list to refute the "high-end" comment, but experience says that would just lead to further diversion and insults of the "rich guy with no ears" variety. FWIWFM (zero) - Don
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 25, 2020 18:05:15 GMT -5
I wonder what would have happened if Amir actually liked the Maggies when listening to them. That would have presented a conundrum since it would be at odds with the measurements. I wonder how much the measurements affect his opinion?
I think he should have listened to the speakers first, documented and published his impressions, and then measured them. That would give the reader an idea of how close his ears match what he measured.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 26, 2020 12:08:52 GMT -5
I wonder what would have happened if Amir actually liked the Maggies when listening to them. That would have presented a conundrum since it would be at odds with the measurements. I wonder how much the measurements affect his opinion? I think he should have listened to the speakers first, documented and published his impressions, and then measured them. That would give the reader an idea of how close his ears match what he measured. That assumes he gives a damn about anything other than his own dogmatic belief in his specific type of measurements reveal "the end all." And he doesn't. And, by the way, he is more often than not, wrong.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 26, 2020 13:00:10 GMT -5
DYohn, I think you want a comma after "not", don't you?
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