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Post by leonski on Sept 30, 2020 19:29:00 GMT -5
Point Is that ISO and other toroids ALL share certain characteristics. Frequency response limits, for example, will cut out certain noise...like RF.
A whole list of transformer measureables, many of which arent' really germane to the current discussion.
I wish I could find what I read on power conditioners.
All I remember is when I hooked up my conditioner, it was a revelation. TV lost ALL snow. Stereo setup changed. I had to reposition speakers and the 'blackness' between notes made me pop my ears.
I was sold. My conditioner has shut off maybe 2x or 3x in a decade and change. All due to low voltage.
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 30, 2020 19:39:12 GMT -5
Agree on RF and few other things - none pertinent to the discussion; or conversely none of things claimed in the discussion do they cut out.
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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 30, 2020 20:06:53 GMT -5
An iso transformer is a special case with 1:1 windings ratio with other properties shared with the rest of the toroid line. Exactly - they have no step up or down, they're the "even" I mentioned. I guarantee you the Puffster doesn't own a single amp that has an isolation transformer in it. I don't think one has ever been made with one, but I suppose there may be some extremely rare model out there. I don't know why I am even responding to this? I guess it may be because I have a BE in Electrical Engineering and a 42 year career in the motor and control industry, that I just might know what an isolation transformer is. They come big and small, with multiple windings some tapped , some untapped. The voltage ratio from primary to secondary is determined by the coil ratio and may be step up, step down. or even, but they are all ISOLATION TRANSFORMERS. Yes there is such a thing as a non isolation transformer, they are called auto transformers; but that is another subject. I have many amps from my 1964 Marantz 8b to my Emotiva XPA-1 Gen 1 monoblocks and about 10 other amps in daily use and 7 or so other amps in the closet. Guess what - they all use isolation transformers. |
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Post by leonski on Sept 30, 2020 22:40:48 GMT -5
Yep.....MAC is famous for use of autoformers.
And I just remembered one other thing. The ISO in my power conditioner has some kind of ground switch. The 2 postions are marked 'Balanced' and 'Isolated'......Any clarification?
And yes, I take your point. ALL are isolation. But the one of particular interest to audio types would be the 1:1 type. I saw a power conditioner at a show years ago, which at the core, was a BIG
transformer. Maybe 2kva or better. Weighted a LOT. I don't remember what else was in it....
I think it may have started with a medical grade Plitron.
I worked with plenty of engineers over the years. And a few PhD types. One started in Chemistry but ended up in Semiconductors about which he knew a LOT. I'd go visit him at his desk about 2x monthly
for 6 to 10 minutes of him telling me about anything to do with our process and product. Sometimes I'd start with a specific question. Maybe about Implant or some diffusion process.
In the motor and control industry, I'll bet you used stuff made in my fab. IRC made LOTS of this kind of thing including very high current modules all th way down to FRED or IGBT devices. All made on the same line.
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Post by creimes on Sept 30, 2020 23:04:28 GMT -5
I think possibly one of if not the most ridiculous things here on the lounge is that every thread that has an even minor mention to do with the Gen 3 amps it turns into a heated discussion on their power supply, talk about beating the dead horse with a dead horse, it seems some need to move on already, I've heard one and it sounded great as did the Gen 1 & 2 before it.
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Post by foggy1956 on Oct 1, 2020 7:18:30 GMT -5
I think possibly one of if not the most ridiculous things here on the lounge is that every thread that has an even minor mention to do with the Gen 3 amps it turns into a heated discussion on their power supply, talk about beating the dead horse with a dead horse, it seems some need to move on already, I've heard one and it sounded great as did the Gen 1 & 2 before it. I am also pleased with my xpa-2 gen3 |
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Post by rbk123 on Oct 1, 2020 9:04:50 GMT -5
I don't know why I am even responding to this? I guess it may be because I have a BE in Electrical Engineering and a 42 year career in the motor and control industry, that I just might know what an isolation transformer is. They come big and small, with multiple windings some tapped , some untapped. The voltage ratio from primary to secondary is determined by the coil ratio and may be step up, step down. or even, but they are all ISOLATION TRANSFORMERS. Yes there is such a thing as a non isolation transformer, they are called auto transformers; but that is another subject. I have many amps from my 1964 Marantz 8b to my Emotiva XPA-1 Gen 1 monoblocks and about 10 other amps in daily use and 7 or so other amps in the closet. Guess what - they all use isolation transformers. Looks like you should have gone to a better school. Not one of those amps has an ISOLATION TRANSFORMER; like Leon said, all transformers share certain isolation characteristics (none of which pertain to this thread or your earlier errors), however isolation transformers are a special breed. Start here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer ; then I would suggest enrolling at a local junior college and seeing if you can get an Associates in electronics since your engineering background has proven to be a bust. Feel free to use more caps next time; no doubt if you shout it loud enough, it must be true. |
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Post by Hair Nick on Oct 1, 2020 9:14:49 GMT -5
Again mostly talk on the science of theoretical sound vs how the unit actually sounds.
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Post by rbk123 on Oct 1, 2020 9:55:59 GMT -5
Not only ignoring how it actually sounds, but not even getting the science right.
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Post by creimes on Oct 1, 2020 9:56:58 GMT -5
I don't know why I am even responding to this? I guess it may be because I have a BE in Electrical Engineering and a 42 year career in the motor and control industry, that I just might know what an isolation transformer is. They come big and small, with multiple windings some tapped , some untapped. The voltage ratio from primary to secondary is determined by the coil ratio and may be step up, step down. or even, but they are all ISOLATION TRANSFORMERS. Yes there is such a thing as a non isolation transformer, they are called auto transformers; but that is another subject. I have many amps from my 1964 Marantz 8b to my Emotiva XPA-1 Gen 1 monoblocks and about 10 other amps in daily use and 7 or so other amps in the closet. Guess what - they all use isolation transformers. Looks like you should have gone to a better school. Not one of those amps has an ISOLATION TRANSFORMER; like Leon said, all transformers share certain isolation characteristics (none of which pertain to this thread or your earlier errors), however isolation transformers are a special breed. Start here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer ; then I would suggest enrolling at a local junior college and seeing if you can get an Associates in electronics since your engineering background has proven to be a bust. Feel free to use more caps next time; no doubt if you shout it loud enough, it must be true. Damn dude, that's just plain harsh man, I could never speak to someone like that whether it be online or face to face Today's GIF of the day for rbk....  |
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Post by rbk123 on Oct 1, 2020 10:27:19 GMT -5
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Post by davidl81 on Oct 1, 2020 10:32:58 GMT -5
I went form a G2 XPA-5 to a G3 XPA-9 and if anything the XPA-9 sounds better on the center channel (all other channels are surround). I had a XPA-2 G2 and went to a DR-2 and the DR-2 is better. Both new units have the switching power supply. They are also much much lighter than the older amps and run cooler. I may not have the most audiophile ears in the world, but I know the new amps sound great to me. Take it for what it's worth.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 11:18:54 GMT -5
Again mostly talk on the science of theoretical sound vs how the unit actually sounds. Perhaps a poet rather than engineer might be better equipped to perform that task? |
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Post by creimes on Oct 1, 2020 14:50:29 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on Oct 1, 2020 15:28:01 GMT -5
Again mostly talk on the science of theoretical sound vs how the unit actually sounds. Perhaps a poet rather than engineer might be better equipped to perform that task? You know, Shim, this might be the best single thing you ever posted here. I'm not going to go into detail....it would require 20 pages, but YES, I'll go even further and say that hifi is a mix of poetry, religion, philosophy and tribalism. And more. What I consider a fact about everything that can be measured doesn't matter and everything that matters can't be measured (maybe....yet?) just ices the cake. Some covictions about what 'helps'.....stuff like 150$ Carbon Fiber Wall Plates (yep) and wiring in exotic configurations of exotic materials.....verges to ME on religion. As for how it sounds? Time will tell. I've seen gear advertised as Best In History of Sound....get GREAT reviews and disappear from sight in 10 months. Yet the original NAD 3020 had that IT factor which makes it a desired older piece even today. Go Figger..... cheers all.....Go put on some tunes or a movie. Enjoy the rest of the day..... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 15:39:06 GMT -5
Perhaps a poet rather than engineer might be better equipped to perform that task? You know, Shim, this might be the best single thing you ever posted here. I'm not going to go into detail....it would require 20 pages, but YES, I'll go even further and say that hifi is a mix of poetry, religion, philosophy and tribalism. And more. What I consider a fact about everything that can be measured doesn't matter and everything that matters can't be measured (maybe....yet?) just ices the cake. Some covictions about what 'helps'.....stuff like 150$ Carbon Fiber Wall Plates (yep) and wiring in exotic configurations of exotic materials.....verges to ME on religion. As for how it sounds? Time will tell. I've seen gear advertised as Best In History of Sound....get GREAT reviews and disappear from sight in 10 months. Yet the original NAD 3020 had that IT factor which makes it a desired older piece even today. Go Figger..... cheers all.....Go put on some tunes or a movie. Enjoy the rest of the day..... Much appreciate your response and encouragement Leonski. It is refreshing to see another recognize the "mix of poetry, religion, philosophy and tribalism" in hifi. Enjoy, William |
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Post by mgbpuff on Oct 1, 2020 16:05:58 GMT -5
Look, I don't care about the rudeness (O.K. maybe a little), but rbk123 thinks that a special case of an isolation transformer, namely a single phase, 1:1 voltage ration between primary and secondary is the ONLY case that is called an "Isolation transformer". This is patently not true. However, he is free to believe whatever he wants. A 1:1 single phase isolation transformer does have only one purpose in life and that is isolation since it neither steps up or steps down, but in the transformer industry all these different versions are considered to be isolation transformers.
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Post by rbk123 on Oct 1, 2020 16:47:39 GMT -5
The irony is it isn't just me that thinks that way as Leon said it himself, not just once but twice. Pastries for thought on who might be using the wrong terminology....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 16:54:04 GMT -5
Leonski, Stereophile describes the XPA Gen 3 amp as hard sounding too transistor like. Often this wooden inflexible board opposes the use of flowery language describing the competition. As Engineers forbid the Poets do they recognize the surfacing philosophy?
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Post by brutiarti on Oct 1, 2020 17:46:39 GMT -5
Almost everybody here talks like they own a huge successful audio company and they are the lead engineer also 😂
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