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Post by 405x5 on Apr 2, 2024 18:40:10 GMT -5
“The goal is great impulse response.” I’m at a loss as to what exactly it is. You mean by that could you elaborate? Impulse is one of the aspects of how a driver responds that can be measured, and can reflect on how well or poorly it's operating. If multiple speakers in a system are playing the same sound, but at different times, the impulse will be smeared, bass response will be muddy and boomy. Adjust the timing of the group of speakers so they are aligned well, the impulse will be a single spike, bass response will be crisp, articulate, and impactful. Here is an example of an impulse response that is pretty much perfect! This is from a system with 8 18" subwoofers connected to a Trinnov processor using Trinnov's WaveForming subwoofer tuning system. I've never seen, nor even thought that an impulse from 8 subwoofers could look this good. View AttachmentI'll post some of my impulse measurements in the coming days. Right now I'm enjoying the fruits. How many home theater end users are employing eight 18” Subwoofers in a typical home theater system? That sounds more like Science Fiction to me than anything that’s plausible |
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Post by LuisV on Apr 2, 2024 20:45:30 GMT -5
Impulse is one of the aspects of how a driver responds that can be measured, and can reflect on how well or poorly it's operating. If multiple speakers in a system are playing the same sound, but at different times, the impulse will be smeared, bass response will be muddy and boomy. Adjust the timing of the group of speakers so they are aligned well, the impulse will be a single spike, bass response will be crisp, articulate, and impactful. Here is an example of an impulse response that is pretty much perfect! This is from a system with 8 18" subwoofers connected to a Trinnov processor using Trinnov's WaveForming subwoofer tuning system. I've never seen, nor even thought that an impulse from 8 subwoofers could look this good. View AttachmentI'll post some of my impulse measurements in the coming days. Right now I'm enjoying the fruits. How many home theater end users are employing eight 18” Subwoofers in a typical home theater system? That sounds more like Science Fiction to me than anything that’s plausible Outside of the Lounge, I've seen numerous systems that leverage multiple subwoofers... 18s or 21s. Even Rel speaks about stacking their subs... a six pack, 3 per side: "HT/1510 Predator offers one more uniquely REL innovation. For truly over the top performance, Predators are designed to be stacked up to three (3) units high using included REL Couplers™ that connect lower units to upper units. These solid, milled aluminum couplers bolt securely to each sub and along with the substantial rails on the underside of each cabinet create an extremely heavy, sturdy tower of bass. When used in stereo stacks (6 total, 3 per side) it represents over 8000 watts of peak power forcing (6) x 15” drivers to give their utmost in the service of breathtaking bass delivered in oceanic torrents of bass."
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Post by LuisV on Apr 2, 2024 20:48:00 GMT -5
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 2, 2024 20:56:44 GMT -5
Well, sure all of us who have been around for a while have seen aberration such as this…… Very impressive as your hearing leaves you in a blaze of glory. Next stop is the audiologist although too little too late |
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Post by leonski on Apr 2, 2024 21:48:55 GMT -5
WHAT? I can shout.....Don't hear you!!!
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 2, 2024 22:01:28 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on Apr 3, 2024 1:55:19 GMT -5
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Post by marcl on Apr 3, 2024 7:53:29 GMT -5
Impulse is one of the aspects of how a driver responds that can be measured, and can reflect on how well or poorly it's operating. If multiple speakers in a system are playing the same sound, but at different times, the impulse will be smeared, bass response will be muddy and boomy. Adjust the timing of the group of speakers so they are aligned well, the impulse will be a single spike, bass response will be crisp, articulate, and impactful. Here is an example of an impulse response that is pretty much perfect! This is from a system with 8 18" subwoofers connected to a Trinnov processor using Trinnov's WaveForming subwoofer tuning system. I've never seen, nor even thought that an impulse from 8 subwoofers could look this good. View AttachmentI'll post some of my impulse measurements in the coming days. Right now I'm enjoying the fruits. How many home theater end users are employing eight 18” Subwoofers in a typical home theater system? That sounds more like Science Fiction to me than anything that’s plausible I think the point of this is to show that even in this extreme example of 8 18" drivers, processing can align these subs and control them so that they produce a very good impulse. So okay ... within the reach of most of us non-Trinnovians, four or six 12" subs can be made to perform together to produce more impact in the bass and do so with less excursion and hence less ringing than one or two subs. All things being equal, six subs can play 15db louder than one ... but they can also play at the same level without moving as far. I think that is the point ... but it takes some skill to align them. |
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 3, 2024 7:59:26 GMT -5
Should You Upgrade to MASSIVE Home Theater Subwoofers? www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZAxqqVoogoLarge levels of bass will not send you to the audiologist because ours ears don't respond to deep bass like they do at higher frequencies. However - Extreme Sub volumes may affect the structure of your home. There is no replacement for displacement. I use the same 2 Sub drivers that Kyle Bliss uses - see the video at 2:50- 3:20 - in a similar arrangement. The need for EQ is very small. The cabinets are slightly different; just cubes. I do not enhance the bass. 100 watt amps drive the pair to 120 dB spl at clipping. It's enough for me. The subs could handle 4KW peaks. I used a 4KW amp for a while. Never clipped the amp. It was too much. It's not necessary for a HT. I favor quality over quantity. At any volume I play, the bass is just bass. No sense of a physical driver. Np sense of distortion. Multiple Subs can give a room quality improvement that one Sub will never do. Two Subs can be aligned well by 'non-Trinnovians'. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 3, 2024 8:18:08 GMT -5
This thread has entered the realm of “beyond the bizarre”.
The OP called it “finding subwoofer”? Look no further…… And instead of simply Atmos overhead effects, you can now look forward to a subwoofer driver falling out of the ceiling and clocking you on the head.
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Post by marcl on Apr 3, 2024 8:37:22 GMT -5
This thread has entered the realm of “beyond the bizarre”. The OP called it “finding subwoofer”? Look no further…… And instead of Atmos overhead effects, you can look forward to a subwoofer driver falling out of the ceiling and clocking you on the head. I don't understand. He isn't putting subs on the ceiling, he's just putting them across the front of the room and time/level aligning them. What's so beyond bizarre about that? Actually lots of people build home theaters with subs across the wall under the screen. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 3, 2024 8:39:41 GMT -5
This thread has entered the realm of “beyond the bizarre”. The OP called it “finding subwoofer”? Look no further…… And instead of Atmos overhead effects, you can look forward to a subwoofer driver falling out of the ceiling and clocking you on the head. I don't understand. He isn't putting subs on the ceiling, he's just putting them across the front of the room and time/level aligning them. What's so beyond bizarre about that? Actually lots of people build home theaters with subs across the wall under the screen. You missed the last couple of posts. Yes, of course I’ve seen people do similar with the front array |
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 3, 2024 8:47:36 GMT -5
Stereo Integrity HS-24 SUBWOOFERS Finished! Painting Crazy DIY Home Theater Subs and DEMOS!! www.youtube.com/watch?v=le3Nylk0vX4Kyle Bliss's Subs are about 250#. My Subs with HS24mkII's are about 350#. IMO - Both are on the light side for a Sub of this size... Have to stop somewhere  . Kyle seems like a fun guy with a great sense of humor. Dual 18" Subs In the CEILING! - Kansas City DIY Home Theater Tour www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5N1L_6wob4In this video, notice the surrounds and heights that use Radian 5210 coaxials. 16 minutes in the video. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 3, 2024 10:17:21 GMT -5
Stereo Integrity HS-24 SUBWOOFERS Finished! Painting Crazy DIY Home Theater Subs and DEMOS!! “Kyle seems like a fun guy with a great sense of humor.” I could use the humor indeed, after subjecting myself to some of this stuff! So pathetically bad I started to cry I am reminded of the Bob Carver mantra… POWERFUL MUSICAL ACCURATE whatever became of the last two is beyond me |
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 3, 2024 10:39:36 GMT -5
Stereo Integrity HS-24 SUBWOOFERS Finished! Painting Crazy DIY Home Theater Subs and DEMOS!! “Kyle seems like a fun guy with a great sense of humor.” I could use the humor indeed, after subjecting myself to some of this stuff! So pathetically bad I started to cry I am reminded of the Bob Carver mantra… POWERFUL MUSICAL ACCURATE whatever became of the last two is beyond me Have you ever heard a 24" subwoofer? |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 3, 2024 10:48:56 GMT -5
I am reminded of the Bob Carver mantra… POWERFUL MUSICAL ACCURATE whatever became of the last two is beyond me Have you ever heard a 24" subwoofer? ….. the diameter of the subwoofer is the determining factor for accuracy ? |
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 3, 2024 10:56:26 GMT -5
Have you ever heard a 24" subwoofer? ….. the diameter of the subwoofer is the determining factor for accuracy ? The correct answers are either Yes, or, No... There is no replacement for displacement. Displacement can be achieved with different methods. 'Finding Subwoofer' can involve different implementations. Size does matter, but it is only one part of subwoofer implementation. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 3, 2024 11:15:39 GMT -5
….. the diameter of the subwoofer is the determining factor for accuracy ? The correct answers are either Yes, or, No... There is no replacement for displacement. Displacement can be achieved with different methods. I wouldn’t know what else to say… Save the fact, that I’ve been happy as a clam right down to 15HZ in my listening space Since January 2001. A potent combination of push pull configuration, low frequency, drivers, and the servo control mechanism in my Velodyne subwoofer….. Just continues to deliver the goods. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 3, 2024 11:42:12 GMT -5
I wouldn’t know what else to say… Save the fact, that I’ve been happy as a clam right down to 15HZ in my listening space Since January 2001. A potent combination of push pull configuration, low frequency, drivers, and the servo control mechanism in my Velodyne subwoofer….. Just continues to deliver the goods.This is all that matters. This is my 24" Sub implementation. It's the second pair of 24" Subs that I have built. It accurately delivers the good I like, but not quite as good as the 24" pair I built 35 years ago: View AttachmentThe room is in progress. It's a bit messy. Yes, I saw that picture…… You put it up not long ago someplace…… So this whole thing is a trip for me down memory lane and recalling that back then in 2001 I needed to do something or my prized vintage loudspeakers would become toast in a very short period of time. So the gun went off on the proper way for me to pursue the LFE. Movies had now become a safe adventure without cones bottoming out. But the first surprise was the realization that I had a lot of low frequency sounds on my regular CD collection that had gone missed and for at least the first six months of when I had the subwoofer I found myself revisiting my entire music collection, and finding stuff that had never been heard at least my ears. During that time. I also acquired a small collection of organ recordings, which was very cool to embrace all of those pedal tones. There is great satisfaction to be had by reveling an accurate low frequency, production…… It’s just the stuff that these kids end up doing today that actually has me feeling sad for them. Without the concept in place of what’s worth listening to and what isn’t can be a very sad exercise |
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Post by leonski on Apr 3, 2024 12:55:23 GMT -5
www.passdiy.com/pdf/el-pipe-o.pdfFrom Nelson Pass. HIS entry is for tall rooms and doesn't require huge floor space. Tube makes 'building an enclosure' a snap......He did a 2x18" version and later went to a single sub PER tower.....
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. Kyle seems like a fun guy with a great sense of humor.