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Post by 405x5 on Sept 30, 2020 14:00:48 GMT -5
IMHO, 10k is a ridiculous amount of change for a 2 way 2 driver speaker pair, no matter how good they may be.....just sayin..... Bill
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 14:03:46 GMT -5
Not sure how cancelling historic treaties is considered a funny joke. Anyway...there is a thing called hardwired instincts. Animals have them and so do we. What they are is a completely different matter. For instance a baby is born with the hardwired instinct to hold their breath when dunked underwater or the suckle reflex. Some newborn animals like horses can walk very soon after birth. In terms of figuring out whether music is real or not from far away....it may not have anything to do with hardwiring or a perfect ability. First, if you are listening to pre-recorded music, that's being played in public there is a good chance you are listening to something that is dynamically compressed. The voice is equally loud as a string guitar etc. The difference in proportions are obvious. There may be many more instruments, a lot synthesized, in different proportions compared to a typical live performances. Also the performance and timing may be more perfect compared to a live recording. Whereas a live performance may have a far away poorly miced vocal that cuts in and out, sounds hollow, a voice that may sing poorly, overload the mic, or instruments overpowering one another (drums overpowering the acoustic guitar or vocals). So I don't think it's not so much a hardwired instinct to distinguish recorded music vs live. But the differences in the recorded music's production values and the limitations of playing live. Because live sound is different from recorded sound. I am consistently fooled by the ringing of a door bell, phone, speaker, or car driving by noise on my speakers. So it is not necessarily a hardwired instinct. Historical treaties were made w/ Indians. That's a fact. If some individual or peoples wish to identify as other than then so be it. The treaties were made and obviously accepted by historical Indians. The treaties were writ to Indians. I find identity politics and reassigning meaning to terms words etc as well as rejecting historical context through liberal interpretation dishonest. So dishonest in my eyes the interpreter reaches absurdity. Personally, I often deal w/ absurdity in humor, sometimes conveyed through sarcasm, that is, the emphasis of the absurdity. Some people today have gone to great lengths to prove they are genetically "Indian". I have no problem w/ others using genetics to prove their biological roots and true identity. However, I have a problem being made under compulsion to contribute towards individuals or peoples simply because they "identify" as such. Likewise, I have no issue w/ someone "de-patriotizing" or expatriate but don't expect the benefits [rights] of the founding documents. And as far as the joke, I am not insinuating cancelling a peace treaty. However, I am suggesting the peace treaties are only valid for the Indians in the context of the documents. But I understand, some feelings were hurt among the sensitive types. Lemme order ya up a box of tissues.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 30, 2020 14:59:43 GMT -5
IMHO, 10k is a ridiculous amount of change for a 2 way 2 driver speaker pair, no matter how good they may be.....just sayin..... Bill Mine are 2-way. 3-driver, but 2-way. And FWIW the Alec speakers are really, really, fantastic! At AXPONA last year, other than the speakers I already owned, there were four speakers that caught my attention: Focal Grande Utopia EM Evo ($240,000/pair) Wilson Alexx ($109,000/pair) Magnepan (don't recall the model but there were five setup for surround, but we listened in two channel mode) Alta Alec Yes, I understand those shows put all of the vendors under duress in trying to achieve the best sound they can in rooms that are far from ok, but still, when something is really excellent, it somehow is able to show a glimmer of its brilliance, like a diamond in the mud. The Alec on the other hand was great, just plain great.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 30, 2020 16:01:21 GMT -5
IMHO, 10k is a ridiculous amount of change for a 2 way 2 driver speaker pair, no matter how good they may be.....just sayin..... Bill Mine are 2-way. 3-driver, but 2-way. And FWIW the Alec speakers are really, really, fantastic! At AXPONA last year, other than the speakers I already owned, there were four speakers that caught my attention: Focal Grande Utopia EM Evo ($240,000/pair) Wilson Alexx ($109,000/pair) Magnepan (don't recall the model but there were five setup for surround, but we listened in two channel mode) Alta Alec Yes, I understand those shows put all of the vendors under duress in trying to achieve the best sound they can in rooms that are far from ok, but still, when something is really excellent, it somehow is able to show a glimmer of its brilliance, like a diamond in the mud. The Alec on the other hand was great, just plain great. If it takes six figures to grab your attention....you’re in trouble already! ( No offense) Bill
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Post by garbulky on Sept 30, 2020 16:11:15 GMT -5
Not sure how cancelling historic treaties is considered a funny joke. Anyway...there is a thing called hardwired instincts. Animals have them and so do we. What they are is a completely different matter. For instance a baby is born with the hardwired instinct to hold their breath when dunked underwater or the suckle reflex. Some newborn animals like horses can walk very soon after birth. In terms of figuring out whether music is real or not from far away....it may not have anything to do with hardwiring or a perfect ability. First, if you are listening to pre-recorded music, that's being played in public there is a good chance you are listening to something that is dynamically compressed. The voice is equally loud as a string guitar etc. The difference in proportions are obvious. There may be many more instruments, a lot synthesized, in different proportions compared to a typical live performances. Also the performance and timing may be more perfect compared to a live recording. Whereas a live performance may have a far away poorly miced vocal that cuts in and out, sounds hollow, a voice that may sing poorly, overload the mic, or instruments overpowering one another (drums overpowering the acoustic guitar or vocals). So I don't think it's not so much a hardwired instinct to distinguish recorded music vs live. But the differences in the recorded music's production values and the limitations of playing live. Because live sound is different from recorded sound. I am consistently fooled by the ringing of a door bell, phone, speaker, or car driving by noise on my speakers. So it is not necessarily a hardwired instinct. Historical treaties were made w/ Indians. That's a fact. If some individual or peoples wish to identify as other than then so be it. The treaties were made and obviously accepted by historical Indians. The treaties were writ to Indians. I find identity politics and reassigning meaning to terms words etc as well as rejecting historical context through liberal interpretation dishonest. So dishonest in my eyes the interpreter reaches absurdity. Personally, I often deal w/ absurdity in humor, sometimes conveyed through sarcasm, that is, the emphasis of the absurdity. Some people today have gone to great lengths to prove they are genetically "Indian". I have no problem w/ others using genetics to prove their biological roots and true identity. However, I have a problem being made under compulsion to contribute towards individuals or peoples simply because they "identify" as such. Likewise, I have no issue w/ someone "de-patriotizing" or expatriate but don't expect the benefits [rights] of the founding documents. And as far as the joke, I am not insinuating cancelling a peace treaty. However, I am suggesting the peace treaties are only valid for the Indians in the context of the documents. But I understand, some feelings were hurt among the sensitive types. Lemme order ya up a box of tissues. It's not hurting feelings. It's about being respectful to people. Your "well if you change your name, then the treaties are null" is a bogus argument. This group has been through enough, so I don't find joking about those things in good taste.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 30, 2020 16:13:21 GMT -5
It's about being respectful to people. Right on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 16:15:45 GMT -5
Historical treaties were made w/ Indians. That's a fact. If some individual or peoples wish to identify as other than then so be it. The treaties were made and obviously accepted by historical Indians. The treaties were writ to Indians. I find identity politics and reassigning meaning to terms words etc as well as rejecting historical context through liberal interpretation dishonest. So dishonest in my eyes the interpreter reaches absurdity. Personally, I often deal w/ absurdity in humor, sometimes conveyed through sarcasm, that is, the emphasis of the absurdity. Some people today have gone to great lengths to prove they are genetically "Indian". I have no problem w/ others using genetics to prove their biological roots and true identity. However, I have a problem being made under compulsion to contribute towards individuals or peoples simply because they "identify" as such. Likewise, I have no issue w/ someone "de-patriotizing" or expatriate but don't expect the benefits [rights] of the founding documents. And as far as the joke, I am not insinuating cancelling a peace treaty. However, I am suggesting the peace treaties are only valid for the Indians in the context of the documents. But I understand, some feelings were hurt among the sensitive types. Lemme order ya up a box of tissues. It's not hurting feelings. It's about being respectful to people. Your "well if you change your name, then the treaties are null" is a bogus argument. This group has been through enough, so I don't find joking about those things in good taste. Respectful? How about being respectful to Indians who place great emphasis on ancestor heritage? Indians today do not recognize anyone claiming to identify with them but critieria must be established such a belonging to a tribe. Respect? According to who's or what standard, coming from someone that doesn't believe in morality? Your emotional response, your feelings, that's my standard? I couldn't care less about what you deem in good or bad taste, such is, nothing more than your subjective opinionated self-expression by your own admission. And, I will not be held according to your standard. As a minority myself I'm so sick of bleeding heart liberals dictating to me how I should feel or conduct my behavior.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 30, 2020 16:21:22 GMT -5
It might be done for some, but some of us (at least yours truly) are still interested in hearing more about Miss Berma Sanchez. Go ask her...
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Post by garbulky on Sept 30, 2020 16:22:58 GMT -5
It's not hurting feelings. It's about being respectful to people. Your "well if you change your name, then the treaties are null" is a bogus argument. This group has been through enough, so I don't find joking about those things in good taste. Respectful? How about being respectful to Indians who place great emphasis on ancestor heritage? Go talk to them and ask them. I believe in morality. I don't believe there's such a thing as absolute morality. The forum rules say " 3. Be nice to each other and respect the moderators. Profanity, insults, knocking other brands, and generally rude behavior will not be tolerated. Period. Opinions are welcome, not bad behavior. " I consider your joking generally rude behavior and I called you out on it. Politics is also frowned upon and I think this discussion is bordering on it so I shall bow out.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 30, 2020 16:24:35 GMT -5
IMHO, 10k is a ridiculous amount of change for a 2 way 2 driver speaker pair, no matter how good they may be.....just sayin..... Bill You want to pay for hardware, or you want to pay for music?
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 30, 2020 16:26:28 GMT -5
Historical treaties were made w/ Indians...The treaties were made and obviously accepted by historical Indians... You say that as if they had a choice? IBTL
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 16:31:27 GMT -5
Respectful? How about being respectful to Indians who place great emphasis on ancestor heritage? Go talk to them and ask them. I believe in morality. I don't believe there's such a thing as absolute morality. The forum rules say " 3. Be nice to each other and respect the moderators. Profanity, insults, knocking other brands, and generally rude behavior will not be tolerated. Period. Opinions are welcome, not bad behavior. " I consider your joking generally rude behavior and I called you out on it. Politics is also frowned upon and I think this discussion is bordering on it so I shall bow out. You obviously believe in morality when it suits you. Should I quote you? Define nice, moreso loving. Allowing someone to self-destruct and tear down not only themselves but all those around them, is that nice or loving? As far as politics, quit projecting. I suspect you're using such dishonest tactics in order to bend the perception of the mods to conform to your dishonest observation because your conclusions stem from your own depraved worldview. Bow out? No problem, many are taking a knee today as before a king or queen rather than standing and being heard, civilly, and peaceably despite disagreeing. I guess I should feel honored someone is bowing ~ out. Soon as my stomach settles I might just recognize that. In the meantime, I yield back, and I hope you decide to reengage when you can separate your own emotion from the topic at hand. If you didn't mean to bow out in such way, try intellectual sarcasm rather than emotional sarcasm and we'll be seeing eye to eye. At least then we'll be standing because my knees will need be broken before they bend before any man.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 30, 2020 16:32:41 GMT -5
Whoa Baby! Gettin TOUGH here!!
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Post by garbulky on Sept 30, 2020 16:36:48 GMT -5
Go talk to them and ask them. I believe in morality. I don't believe there's such a thing as absolute morality. The forum rules say " 3. Be nice to each other and respect the moderators. Profanity, insults, knocking other brands, and generally rude behavior will not be tolerated. Period. Opinions are welcome, not bad behavior. " I consider your joking generally rude behavior and I called you out on it. Politics is also frowned upon and I think this discussion is bordering on it so I shall bow out. You obviously believe in morality when it suits you. Should I quote you? Re- let's take this to the messages to not derail the thread. I sent you a message about morality. Did you see it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 16:47:17 GMT -5
You obviously believe in morality when it suits you. Should I quote you? Re- let's take this to the messages to not derail the thread. I sent you a message about morality. Did you see it? Yes I had, but chose not to respond lest the fool becomes wise in his own eyes. Such silence i think the best course of action when dealing with childlike arguments. I'm sure grade 1-3 might have difficulty in responding to your points. Now, I'm going to shift and establish a peace treaty between you and I. On the condition you do not directly address me in this one specific topic in this thread. We may come together or distance ourselves further in other areas of the board. Smoke with me?
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 30, 2020 16:48:04 GMT -5
Lots of angst about the $10,000 speakers I reviewed. I can understand that. It's a product I'd probably not be able or willing to afford. But should it be given the "sour grapes treatment" just because I can't afford it? I think not.
I call excellence wherever I hear it. And I do my best to recognize it regardless of cost. At the megabuck end of the spectrum, yes, I think the reviewed speakers are amazing. Have I heard less expensive speakers that I think equally excellent? Yes and no. Most speakers in lower price ranges do one or two things really well. If those one or two aspects are the ones important to YOU, then you can get "equivalent performance" for less money. For example:
Want low distortion? Buy Klipschorns, La Scalas, or Tekton products. Want pinpoint imaging? Buy KEF products (or discontinued Avalon Symbols). Want high volume? Buy PA speakers.
But when you want ALL:
Flat frequency response High volume capability Low distortion Ability to remain dynamic at low volumes No cabinet resonances or colorations Sub-30 Hz. bass response Ability to play in both large and small rooms Good WAF
...then you'll have to spend more money. And the performance to cost curve is exponential. Above a certain price, every increasingly minimal improvement in performance costs exponentially more money.
At the other end of the spectrum are "bargain" components that embarrass many products costing 10x their price. The Emotiva BasX TA-100 stereo receiver is one example of this. To do "better," you'll need to spend a LOT more money!
Ultimately, unless you've personally heard the product under review, you're just spouting unsupported opinions. And NONE of us have heard every product around - not even those who sell equipment and/or write reviews can say for a fact that one product is the absolute best bargain. We can only say that it's the best bargain WE'VE heard. Caveat Emptor.
Boom
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 30, 2020 16:51:18 GMT -5
Someone on this thread seems to be speaking for Native Peoples, and based on the comments to be speaking from a position of ignorance. Are you a tribal member? I am an enrolled member of the L'Anse Bay Community of Ojibwe. We object to the racist and inaccurate use of the term "indian." I cannot speak for any of the other 500+ tribes, but from my work in the Native community I can tell you the vast majority also object to non-Natives using that term. But to be honest, it is perhaps the least offensive of all the slang terms used to refer to the indigenous peoples of the Americas.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 30, 2020 16:52:59 GMT -5
Mine are 2-way. 3-driver, but 2-way. And FWIW the Alec speakers are really, really, fantastic! At AXPONA last year, other than the speakers I already owned, there were four speakers that caught my attention: Focal Grande Utopia EM Evo ($240,000/pair) Wilson Alexx ($109,000/pair) Magnepan (don't recall the model but there were five setup for surround, but we listened in two channel mode) Alta Alec Yes, I understand those shows put all of the vendors under duress in trying to achieve the best sound they can in rooms that are far from ok, but still, when something is really excellent, it somehow is able to show a glimmer of its brilliance, like a diamond in the mud. The Alec on the other hand was great, just plain great. If it takes six figures to grab your attention....you’re in trouble already! ( No offense) Bill The Alec is only $1 into the 5 figure arena, and it grabbed my attention. And I'm not offended at all for admiring such a diverse group of speakers. I was very happy to return home and be so satisfied with the speakers that I purchased compared to what I heard at the show, it solidified my resolute elation over my decision. Me Happy
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 30, 2020 16:55:08 GMT -5
IMHO, 10k is a ridiculous amount of change for a 2 way 2 driver speaker pair, no matter how good they may be.....just sayin..... Bill You want to pay for hardware, or you want to pay for music? Actually, I paid for the hardware so I could PLAY.....the music....as in my Drum 🥁 kit! Did that for years both amateur and professional (Union Musician). That truly helped me to keep the numbers in perspective regarding how much change was needed (realistically) to come up with killer playback capability.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2020 16:55:57 GMT -5
Historical treaties were made w/ Indians...The treaties were made and obviously accepted by historical Indians... You say that as if they had a choice? IBTL I agree, sometimes defeat is hard to swallow. I speak as someone that has visited Indian tribes on missionary trips. My motive has never been to tear down an individual or peoples but rather assist and help when welcomed to build up. Many Indians today are Christians and my beloved brethren. I wouldn't dare identify them as anyone else other than my own peoples. Every peoples have been subjected or have themselves committed conquer and conquest. Despite the ill motives and intents of some I hope, that is, it is my hope that all this undesirable warfare serves a higher purpose. There's a time for war and a time for peace.
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