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Post by boomzilla on Oct 18, 2020 1:15:41 GMT -5
During Hurricane Delta, my new Generac portable generator malfunctioned and apparently lost speed control (sounded like surging). Being in the shower at the time, it took me a few minutes to get there and shut it down. During the event, I could hear something in my computer room that sounded like a pack of firecrackers going off in rapid succession. A heavy "burnt electronics" smell existed afterwards.
Having had this happen once before with another generator, I first assumed that the surge suppressors in the room were at fault. However, since then, I've removed the two UPS/Surge-Suppressor units that were in the room (put them outside the house), and thrown away (also outside the house) all three of the surge-suppressor strips that were in that room. Yet the smell persists in the room.
Yet all of the electronics in the room still function, and I can't help that think that if any of the active electronics had been making the sounds I heard, they'd be malfunctioning. Equipment in the room that was protected by the discarded electrical protectors includes / and their status at the time of the event are below:
UPS 1:
Laptop Computer / on
32" TV used as a monitor / on
Cox Cable modem / on
Cox Cable Telephone modem / on
AT&T-brand telephone / standby
USB self-powered breakout box / on
Surge-suppressor 1:
12-port Ethernet switch / on
Epson ink-jet printer / on
Paper shredder / off
Surge-suppressor 2:
Desktop computer / on
27" monitor / on
Pole lamp with LED bulbs / off
Surge-suppressor 3:
Outdoor compact-fluorescent spotlights (2) / on
Outdoor Electric driveway-gate opener / standby
Un-surge-protected items in room:
Ceiling LED light / on
Ceiling fan / off
Controls for tankless water heater (in attic - fitted with its own surge-suppressor, but with no way to affect air in the computer room
All of the above equipment appears to work perfectly after the UPS and surge-suppressors were replaced with new ones. Additionally, the UPS and three surge suppressors (now outside) don't seem to smell. So my question is "what is causing the burnt electronics smell?" It's strong enough to irritate eyes & throat & is still here strongly in the computer room since October 10th (the day after the hurricane came ashore). Unhappy wife demands that I find & eliminate source since the smell migrates through the house via A/C system.
Other potentially-pertinent factoids:
The room's breaker was not blown at the breaker box.
The generator's circuit breaker never disconnected
The house breaker panel (in the garage) has no smell (nor any tripped breakers)
I've contacted Generac with this tale to ask about why the generator surged
Suggestions welcome. Thanks very much.
Boomzilla
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Oct 18, 2020 2:12:48 GMT -5
First let me say that I hope you can find the source quickly and there’s no dangerous situation in your home.
Running a home on generator power is nothing like running a home on the grid. First, I hope that the generator is grounded to a 4’ to 8’ solid copper rod driven into the ground. The generator being attached with a #4 copper wire to said rod. Every electronic device thats not part of the life support system get unplugged in my home, especially computers and expensive gear. If you don’t mind loosing it go ahead and leave it plugged in, Ha! Ha!
Im assuming the generator is feeding the grid in the house. Now to you burnt smell, you’ve eliminated small electronics and such so now I’d sniff electric outlets and direct wired light fixtures and fans. Perhaps a small nightlight thats plugged in. This can be a dangerous situation and I pray you track it down quickly.
Don’t forget to check the chime for the doorbell, not much juice there but can still be the source. Smoke detector too.
Good luck my friend!
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 18, 2020 6:17:10 GMT -5
Thanks, novisnick, you old socket-sniffer, you! I hadn't thought of the actual sockets, but I'll check them too. No doorbell or nightlight on this circuit, but I'll also check the light & fan. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 18, 2020 8:01:35 GMT -5
Similarly - I hope you find it quickly to ensure safety. Socket sniffing and sniffing every single piece of electronic equipment is a good idea.
The sound of a lot of little firecrackers going off in succession does make me wonder if you were hearing capacitors blowing. I had a PC that over time was having more and more issues. I opened it up once to swap out some RAM and clean dust, and I noticed a few caps were blown - stuff bubbled out the top. Yet, it kept working. It eventually died, and when I opened it backup - more caps were blown. In other words...it worked with a few blown caps but not with a lot blown. Maybe a few pieces of gear fried a few little bits here and there but not enough to cease functioning entirely.
Also...if any of the gear was sitting on/near fabric (carpet, drapes, etc.) - maybe whatever blew transferred the stink to the fabric so even if you removed the equipmen from the room - the smell remains in the fabric.
Mark
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 18, 2020 8:58:59 GMT -5
I found the source of the smell:   This APC strip was behind a metal cabinet (out of sight, out of mind). Nothing was plugged in, but the strip was still there. You can see the carbon inside & outside and the plastic case is warped from the heat. Boom |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 9:45:31 GMT -5
That's great! I was afraid it might have been some thing you were cooking.   |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 18, 2020 9:47:27 GMT -5
You could always just toss everything and start over.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 18, 2020 10:01:02 GMT -5
boomzilla Well, that certainly is a well-fried piece of gear! Mark
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 18, 2020 10:15:48 GMT -5
boomzilla Well, that certainly is a well-fried piece of gear! Mark No sense doing things half-way! The next question is "why did the generator surge?" I've forwarded this question to Generac and am eager to see their reply. |
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Oct 18, 2020 10:18:03 GMT -5
Seems that the socket sniffing worked. You were very lucky that it didn’t cause a fire. That’s exactly why everything gets unplugged when the grid fails. Power from the generator often has wild swings, spikes and drops. They are not as regulated and steady as grid power, even it fluctuates.
Out of curiosity I’d like to know if your generator was grounded as I had specified in my earlier post?
Glad that your both safe and sound and that Mrs Boom will now ease off your ear! LOL
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 18, 2020 10:19:37 GMT -5
Seems that the socket sniffing worked. You were very lucky that it didn’t cause a fire. That’s exactly why everything gets unplugged when the grid fails. Power from the generator often has wild swings, spikes and drops. They are not as regulated and steady as grid power, even it fluctuates. Out of curiosity I’d like to know if your generator was grounded as I had specified in my earlier post? Glad that your both safe and sound and that Mrs Boom will now ease off your ear! LOL Hi Nick - My generator is grounded through its 3-prong 220V feed cable to the manual switch box for the house. The switch box is grounded on its own, immediately-proximate grounding rod. That manual switch box installation & grounding was done by a paid, competent, and certified electrician in order to not only meet applicable electrical code but also to comply with my (homeowner's) insurance company requirements. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 18, 2020 10:25:21 GMT -5
Seems that the socket sniffing worked. You were very lucky that it didn’t cause a fire. That’s exactly why everything gets unplugged when the grid fails. Power from the generator often has wild swings, spikes and drops. They are not as regulated and steady as grid power, even it fluctuates. Out of curiosity I’d like to know if your generator was grounded as I had specified in my earlier post? Glad that your both safe and sound and that Mrs Boom will now ease off your ear! LOL Hi Nick - My generator is grounded through its 3-prong 220V feed cable to the manual switch box for the house. The switch box is grounded on its own, immediately-proximate grounding rod. That manual switch box installation & grounding was done by a paid, competent, and certified electrician in order to not only meet applicable electrical code but also to comply with my (homeowner's) insurance company requirements. In other words, no. You need to properly ground the generator. www.jadelearning.com/blog/grounding-requirements-for-portable-generators/ |
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Oct 18, 2020 10:34:50 GMT -5
Seems that the socket sniffing worked. You were very lucky that it didn’t cause a fire. That’s exactly why everything gets unplugged when the grid fails. Power from the generator often has wild swings, spikes and drops. They are not as regulated and steady as grid power, even it fluctuates. Out of curiosity I’d like to know if your generator was grounded as I had specified in my earlier post? Glad that your both safe and sound and that Mrs Boom will now ease off your ear! LOL Hi Nick - My generator is grounded through its 3-prong 220V feed cable to the manual switch box for the house. The switch box is grounded on its own, immediately-proximate grounding rod. That manual switch box installation & grounding was done by a paid, competent, and certified electrician in order to not only meet applicable electrical code but also to comply with my (homeowner's) insurance company requirements. I figured you had done it that way, thats how mine was done. (Edited to correct statement, Actually, a four pronged cable to the box)., can’t ever be too safe. The weakest link always gets zapped. I guess thats why my electrician told me to just unplug everything thats not essential when on generator power. Sometimes we forget that everything is made to a price point and even though it may pass safty testing it doesn’t mean its built well. Minimum requirements are very different from well built as you well know in your business. Multiple pops may have come from that powers trip, it depends on how it was built. Id disassemble it and see if it was the source of what you heard. |
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 18, 2020 10:59:26 GMT -5
Hi Nick - My generator is grounded through its 3-prong 220V feed cable to the manual switch box for the house. The switch box is grounded on its own, immediately-proximate grounding rod. That manual switch box installation & grounding was done by a paid, competent, and certified electrician in order to not only meet applicable electrical code but also to comply with my (homeowner's) insurance company requirements. In other words, no. You need to properly ground the generator. www.jadelearning.com/blog/grounding-requirements-for-portable-generators/You skipped this line of that article: Grounding requirements for generators connected via transfer switches are covered by Article 250 of the National Electrical Code (NEC). |
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Post by DavidR on Oct 18, 2020 11:27:57 GMT -5
Seems that the socket sniffing worked. You were very lucky that it didn’t cause a fire. That’s exactly why everything gets unplugged when the grid fails. Power from the generator often has wild swings, spikes and drops. They are not as regulated and steady as grid power, even it fluctuates.
Out of curiosity I’d like to know if your generator was grounded as I had specified in my earlier post? Glad that your both safe and sound and that Mrs Boom will now ease off your ear! LOL Correct. Very 'dirty' power. I NEVER run any audio gear from the generator. Typically higher than normal voltage. My generator 220V connection is a 4-wire connection/plug/outlet. The outlet from my electric panel is a dryer outlet that I use my arc welder on. I have a 4-wire SJO cord from the generator to the welder outlet. The ground wire needs to be attached to the house ground (on the panel end).
Neutral and Earth ground are two different beasts.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Oct 18, 2020 11:42:02 GMT -5
Seems that the socket sniffing worked. You were very lucky that it didn’t cause a fire. That’s exactly why everything gets unplugged when the grid fails. Power from the generator often has wild swings, spikes and drops. They are not as regulated and steady as grid power, even it fluctuates.
Out of curiosity I’d like to know if your generator was grounded as I had specified in my earlier post? Glad that your both safe and sound and that Mrs Boom will now ease off your ear! LOL Correct. Very 'dirty' power. I NEVER run any audio gear from the generator. Typically higher than normal voltage. My generator 220V connection is a 4-wire connection/plug/outlet. The outlet from my electric panel is a dryer outlet that I use my arc welder on. I have a 4-wire SJO cord from the generator to the welder outlet. The ground wire needs to be attached to the house ground (on the panel end).
Neutral and Earth ground are two different beasts.
Yes sir! 👍 Thats the cable I use as well as a separate ground at the generator. Of course the generator is 30’ from the house under a double carport where its out of the rain but is open to plenty of air to breathe and for cooling. I have a disposable tv and Backups to regulate power for my cable modem. No hard wire during a power outage, wifi only. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 18, 2020 13:38:18 GMT -5
You skipped this line of that article: Grounding requirements for generators connected via transfer switches are covered by Article 250 of the National Electrical Code (NEC). Didn't skip that at all. Is your generator connected via a transfer switch? If so, it wouldn't be using a 240 volt plug, it would be hard wired through the switch. Besides, Article 250 of NFPA 70 defines how to properly ground or bond your electrical system. The method Nick describes is per that code. Relying on a plug ground for a generator is not. |
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 18, 2020 14:27:52 GMT -5
You skipped this line of that article: Grounding requirements for generators connected via transfer switches are covered by Article 250 of the National Electrical Code (NEC). Didn't skip that at all. Is your generator connected via a transfer switch? If so, it wouldn't be using a 240 volt plug, it would be hard wired through the switch. Besides, Article 250 of NFPA 70 defines how to properly ground or bond your electrical system. The method Nick describes is per that code. Relying on a plug ground for a generator is not. Hmmm... The electrician installed the transfer switch and wired the connection to the generator. As I read the NFPA code, I think he did it right, but I don't really know. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Oct 18, 2020 14:57:54 GMT -5
If you have a transfer switch then I'm sure they did. You said it used a "3-prong 220V feed cable to the manual switch box" which is not the same thing at all.
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 19, 2020 11:41:13 GMT -5
If you have a transfer switch then I'm sure they did. You said it used a "3-prong 220V feed cable to the manual switch box" which is not the same thing at all. My transfer switch IS manual. |
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