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Post by monkumonku on Nov 5, 2020 23:32:03 GMT -5
True, but on the other hand it also does not say that there is "no expiration date" or "does not expire." it says gen 3 OR HIGHER. If there are no other qualifications, it would mean that as long as Emotiva is producing an AV processor newer than gen 2, then this has to be honored. "Or higher" without qualifications means that it is in perpetuity as long as Emotiva produces a newer AV processor. If they said "or higher until otherwise notified" then it would give them a standing not to honor the card once adequate notification is given. It doesn't take a smart person to put in those three words or plan for that eventuality. If that wasn't the wording, then it was on purpose. It was meant to be an assurance without expiration - as long as newer processors are for sale. Well that's true. I guess the true test will be someone attempting to use the card after this year. If Emo refuses to honor it, then I suppose the person with the card will have to seek legal recourse.
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Post by steelman1991 on Nov 6, 2020 3:58:13 GMT -5
So looking at the card itself it say It says ENTITLES user to a 40% discount of gen 3 or higher. There is no fine print showing an expiration date. As these don't expire, the company can't turn around and not honor them anymore. I don't think their denial to honor them would hold up against a legal challenge. Does anybody have the actual wording of how these cards were advertised from way back then on the website? Here is their wording for their first gen 40% off on their website "We also have an incredible, continuing policy that offers a 40% DISCOUNT on future generation processors to any original owners of Emotiva processor. If you bought an LMC-, DMC-1, or MMC-1in the past, you're entitled to 40% off any of our future generation processors when they become available. This is not a one-time special, but a continuing part of the Emotiva business model.". As you can see it says it's NOT A ONE TIME SPECIAL. And 40% of ANY future processor. It also says in another section " Only originally issued certificates from Emotiva will be honored. The original certificate is transferable in the event of a personal sale or can be gifted."
What chance that Emotiva announce - the next generation will be renamed Gen 1
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 6, 2020 4:54:48 GMT -5
All this talk of legal proceedings......in my State it would cost more for a lawyer than the discount.....nuts man.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 6, 2020 7:13:06 GMT -5
By the way, Mrs system is fully Emotiva Why is Mrs. Nick not on the lounge...? You never shared she had her own system! My Mrs. just uses regular TV and our Sonos system, and occasionally watches the main system to watch a movie with me. Mark
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 6, 2020 7:17:52 GMT -5
All this talk of legal proceedings......in my State it would cost more for a lawyer than the discount.....nuts man. You beat me to it...I was going to say that if all the folks who have an issue with this were to band together and get a lawyer to work their concern, a week's worth of work by the attorney would eat up all potential savings of the cards they are hold. I think the better plan is to, as a group, politely lobby Dan to extend the date by some limited about of time...say...7/1/21...to give those caught by surprise time to get past holiday spending and be ready to buy. Maybe a well-thought out, postively framed poll might sway Dan's thinking. (One that leans toward flaming him for his decision would be a poor idea...) Mark
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Post by megash0n on Nov 6, 2020 7:25:03 GMT -5
All this talk of legal proceedings......in my State it would cost more for a lawyer than the discount.....nuts man. No one is actually going to sue. Someone might form a class action lawsuit which makes a lot of sense for a variety of issues. This whole issue is basically a pattern. I use the word trend often. Emotiva does something, or more often than not, does nothing, and it upsets people. The apologist crowd makes excuses and defends Emotiva. When that doesn't work, the narrative turns toward how evil the complaint filer is and the story shifts. Emotiva exhibits a lack of testicular fortitude to attack the situation head on and swiftly. It turns into a PR and branding issue. Instead of fixing the actual issue, loss of loyalty occurs, often censorship to remove the bad stain, countless users take to other social media outlets to warn potential buyers, trust and faith are lost, etc etc. I've been pretty vocal about what I'm seeing. All I'm seeing is Dan driving an agenda of new revenue by any means necessary. I won't go into all of that because it is pointless, and as a basic concept, is needed. What I will say is that one key way to do so is to stop losing customers and prospects because they have no faith in your ability, or desire, to follow thru with anything. Just spend a moment on this forum or any other public forum discussing any AV processor they have released or the amp power supplies. I'm not saying I would or would not buy for any one specific reason, but the hate that's out there. I'd personally be embarrassed. Does this change impact me personally? Sure does. At the time I decided to buy new gear, this card was the only way I could justify the spend... But more importantly, I knew it would give me some wiggle room when I needed to resell in the event that Emotiva continues their generation after generation trends. I was actually considering swapping for a couple XMC-2s this holiday season and buying more amps. It isn't about the card though. I'm not mad about the decision to choose to not honor them anymore. It just removed at least %40 chance that I will continue to purchase anything else. Who knows, and honestly, who cares what I do? What I do care about is that people wake up and look at the long-term patterns of this leadership. Edit: We are in stage 2 now. This is where the apologists shift the blame and defend Big Dan.
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Post by adaboy on Nov 6, 2020 7:28:39 GMT -5
All this talk of legal proceedings......in my State it would cost more for a lawyer than the discount.....nuts man. You beat me to it...I was going to say that if all the folks who have an issue with this were to band together and get a lawyer to work their concern, a week's worth of work by the attorney would eat up all potential savings of the cards they are hold. I think the better plan is to, as a group, politely lobby Dan to extend the date by some limited about of time...say...7/1/21...to give those caught by surprise time to get past holiday spending and be ready to buy. Maybe a well-thought out, postively framed poll might sway Dan's thinking. (One that leans toward flaming him for his decision would be a poor idea...) Mark Attorney fees are initially paid by the plaintiff but.... If successfully litigated Emotiva would have to pay for those fees plus damages etc. Some attorneys wouldn't charge the client until the case is resolved.
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Post by megash0n on Nov 6, 2020 7:43:22 GMT -5
You beat me to it...I was going to say that if all the folks who have an issue with this were to band together and get a lawyer to work their concern, a week's worth of work by the attorney would eat up all potential savings of the cards they are hold. I think the better plan is to, as a group, politely lobby Dan to extend the date by some limited about of time...say...7/1/21...to give those caught by surprise time to get past holiday spending and be ready to buy. Maybe a well-thought out, postively framed poll might sway Dan's thinking. (One that leans toward flaming him for his decision would be a poor idea...) Mark Attorney fees are initially paid by the plaintiff but.... If successfully litigated Emotiva would have to pay for those fees plus damages etc. Some attorneys wouldn't charge the client until the case is resolved. While I agree, let's not allow the narrative to shift here. These people will bait you into other conversations and form arguments that deflect away from the issue at hand which will eventually be censored. Being vocal on all social media platforms, and voting with your wallet, and word of mouth will be far more impactful than a little lawsuit or two. I'd say we would all probably agree what would happen if a single user actually had a lawyer draft a complaint. The company would be silly to not just honor that particular card. While it is a legal issue, let's try to keep the focus and debate on the decision about the card and their communication agendas.
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,896
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Post by cawgijoe on Nov 6, 2020 7:55:42 GMT -5
All this talk of legal proceedings......in my State it would cost more for a lawyer than the discount.....nuts man. No one is actually going to sue. Someone might form a class action lawsuit which makes a lot of sense for a variety of issues. This whole issue is basically a pattern. I use the word trend often. Emotiva does something, or more often than not, does nothing, and it upsets people. The apologist crowd makes excuses and defends Emotiva. When that doesn't work, the narrative turns toward how evil the complaint filer is and the story shifts. Emotiva exhibits a lack of testicular fortitude to attack the situation head on and swiftly. It turns into a PR and branding issue. Instead of fixing the actual issue, loss of loyalty occurs, often censorship to remove the bad stain, countless users take to other social media outlets to warn potential buyers, trust and faith are lost, etc etc. I've been pretty vocal about what I'm seeing. All I'm seeing is Dan driving an agenda of new revenue by any means necessary. I won't go into all of that because it is pointless, and as a basic concept, is needed. What I will say is that one key way to do so is to stop losing customers and prospects because they have no faith in your ability, or desire, to follow thru with anything. Just spend a moment on this forum or any other public forum discussing any AV processor they have released or the amp power supplies. I'm not saying I would or would not buy for any one specific reason, but the hate that's out there. I'd personally be embarrassed. Does this change impact me personally? Sure does. At the time I decided to buy new gear, this card was the only way I could justify the spend... But more importantly, I knew it would give me some wiggle room when I needed to resell in the event that Emotiva continues their generation after generation trends. I was actually considering swapping for a couple XMC-2s this holiday season and buying more amps. It isn't about the card though. I'm not mad about the decision to choose to not honor them anymore. It just removed at least %40 chance that I will continue to purchase anything else. Who knows, and honestly, who cares what I do? What I do care about is that people wake up and look at the long-term patterns of this leadership. Edit: We are in stage 2 now. This is where the apologists shift the blame and defend Big Dan. "Your Honor...speculation" Look, I've been an Emotiva customer for a long time. Every company wants to make money and that is the way it should be. Successful companies produce products that people want. I've met Dan several times at audio shows and at the last Emofest they had. He is a great guy. Easy to talk to and he does listen. he is running a wonderful company. The 40% card has been out for a very long time. Who knows how many are left in the wild. The company has made a decision. Here are your options if you have a card(s): 1) Use it and buy a processor at 40% off. 2) Sell it for whatever you can get to someone who will use it to get 40% off a processor. 3) Be nice and give it to someone who can use it to get 40% off a processor. 4) Sue and hope you come out on top without having to spend lots of money and time...your lawyer thanks you. 5) Drink heavily and than light it on fire. I'm sure there are more options.... Another option is to get together (for those who actually have cards) and petition Dan (politely), to re-think the end date on the card. I like this idea because if it's successful, it's a PR win for the company and a win for those who are not ready to commit or need more time to find someone who will use the card.
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Post by megash0n on Nov 6, 2020 8:12:06 GMT -5
No one is actually going to sue. Someone might form a class action lawsuit which makes a lot of sense for a variety of issues. This whole issue is basically a pattern. I use the word trend often. Emotiva does something, or more often than not, does nothing, and it upsets people. The apologist crowd makes excuses and defends Emotiva. When that doesn't work, the narrative turns toward how evil the complaint filer is and the story shifts. Emotiva exhibits a lack of testicular fortitude to attack the situation head on and swiftly. It turns into a PR and branding issue. Instead of fixing the actual issue, loss of loyalty occurs, often censorship to remove the bad stain, countless users take to other social media outlets to warn potential buyers, trust and faith are lost, etc etc. I've been pretty vocal about what I'm seeing. All I'm seeing is Dan driving an agenda of new revenue by any means necessary. I won't go into all of that because it is pointless, and as a basic concept, is needed. What I will say is that one key way to do so is to stop losing customers and prospects because they have no faith in your ability, or desire, to follow thru with anything. Just spend a moment on this forum or any other public forum discussing any AV processor they have released or the amp power supplies. I'm not saying I would or would not buy for any one specific reason, but the hate that's out there. I'd personally be embarrassed. Does this change impact me personally? Sure does. At the time I decided to buy new gear, this card was the only way I could justify the spend... But more importantly, I knew it would give me some wiggle room when I needed to resell in the event that Emotiva continues their generation after generation trends. I was actually considering swapping for a couple XMC-2s this holiday season and buying more amps. It isn't about the card though. I'm not mad about the decision to choose to not honor them anymore. It just removed at least %40 chance that I will continue to purchase anything else. Who knows, and honestly, who cares what I do? What I do care about is that people wake up and look at the long-term patterns of this leadership. Edit: We are in stage 2 now. This is where the apologists shift the blame and defend Big Dan. "Your Honor...speculation" Look, I've been an Emotiva customer for a long time. Every company wants to make money and that is the way it should be. Successful companies produce products that people want. I've met Dan several times at audio shows and at the last Emofest they had. He is a great guy. Easy to talk to and he does listen. he is running a wonderful company. The 40% card has been out for a very long time. Who knows how many are left in the wild. The company has made a decision. Here are your options if you have a card(s): 1) Use it and buy a processor at 40% off. 2) Sell it for whatever you can get to someone who will use it to get 40% off a processor. 3) Be nice and give it to someone who can use it to get 40% off a processor. 4) Sue and hope you come out on top without having to spend lots of money and time...your lawyer thanks you. 5) Drink heavily and than light it on fire. I'm sure there are more options.... Another option is to get together (for those who actually have cards) and petition Dan (politely), to re-think the end date on the card. I like this idea because if it's successful, it's a PR win for the company and a win for those who are not ready to commit or need more time to find someone who will use the card. if you want to look at this particular issue with blinders on, I agree completely. The reason chunks of people debate and argue on this platform is that one group only sees single issues while the other asks the community to look at the bigger issue that results in all these little issues.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 6, 2020 8:48:37 GMT -5
While I agree, let's not allow the narrative to shift here. These people will bait you into other conversations and form arguments that deflect away from the issue at hand which will eventually be censored. Being vocal on all social media platforms, and voting with your wallet, and word of mouth will be far more impactful than a little lawsuit or two. I'd say we would all probably agree what would happen if a single user actually had a lawyer draft a complaint. The company would be silly to not just honor that particular card. While it is a legal issue, let's try to keep the focus and debate on the decision about the card and their communication agendas. The reality is that all the people who are personally concerned have so far made their point - some more than once yet keep making it in different ways. And some started talking litigation - including you, I believe. So, what direction did you expect this to take. I'm suggesting a different path...try the approach of jointly making a well thought-out and polite request for a small but reasonable extension. Heck, even though I don't have a card so it's not personally impacting me, I'd support that and gladly sign an e-petition for that. Mark
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