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Post by rockman85 on Nov 30, 2020 17:03:09 GMT -5
Presently I am using my Stealth DC-1 Dac to feed the XLR to my amp and my RCA outs to my sub. Due the fact the the RCA voltage is half the XLR output, I have to have the sub volume turned almost all the way up for it to be impactful. Previously I had the opposite issue, using RCA to the AMP and XLR to the subs, for which the solution was just to cut the volume on the sub drastically. Now, I need a way to boost the RCA line signal so that its putting out roughly the same voltage. Is that best way to do this jus to get a cheap pre-amp to boost the line level signal a bit? I was thinking a Schiit Magni might fit the bill, or something cheaper on Amazon... thoughts? www.schiit.com/products/magni-1 |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 30, 2020 17:19:55 GMT -5
You need a preamp with bass management. Magni is a headphone amp and will not help you.
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Post by rockman85 on Nov 30, 2020 18:33:08 GMT -5
You need a preamp with bass management. Magni is a headphone amp and will not help you. But if the Magni can boost up the signal higher than the one coming in, I can set its volume at x, whatever makes sense, then the volume on the DC-1 would be sending unadulterated XLR to the amp, then RCA to the Magni, which boost the signal higher, then out to the sub. Why wouldn't this work? Just FYI, Magni has a pre-amp function, take a look at the back, it has RCA out. "Versatility Comes Standard Both Magnis include preamp outputs. This means you can connect either one to your desktop powered monitors for a complete system—or even connect it to a speaker power amp and use it as a preamp. With its built-in time-delayed start-up and instant shut-down, there’ll be no glitches or pops through either headphones or speakers, either." |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2020 18:48:39 GMT -5
Presently I am using my Stealth DC-1 Dac to feed the XLR to my amp and my RCA outs to my sub. Due the fact the the RCA voltage is half the XLR output, I have to have the sub volume turned almost all the way up for it to be impactful. Previously I had the opposite issue, using RCA to the AMP and XLR to the subs, for which the solution was just to cut the volume on the sub drastically. N ow, I need a way to boost the RCA line signal so that its putting out roughly the same voltage.I think you'd be better off "splitting" the XLR outputs. Use a Y adapter or make Y cables. |
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Post by rockman85 on Nov 30, 2020 18:50:53 GMT -5
Presently I am using my Stealth DC-1 Dac to feed the XLR to my amp and my RCA outs to my sub. Due the fact the the RCA voltage is half the XLR output, I have to have the sub volume turned almost all the way up for it to be impactful. Previously I had the opposite issue, using RCA to the AMP and XLR to the subs, for which the solution was just to cut the volume on the sub drastically. N ow, I need a way to boost the RCA line signal so that its putting out roughly the same voltage.I think you'd be better off "splitting" the XLR outputs. Use a Y adapter or make Y cables. I thought of this, I already own a pair of XLR to RCA cables, could be a better solution I suppose, potentially more expensive. Got any recommendations for a splitter? |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2020 19:03:24 GMT -5
I think you'd be better off "splitting" the XLR outputs. Use a Y adapter or make Y cables. I thought of this, I already own a pair of XLR to RCA cables, could be a better solution I suppose, potentially more expensive. Got any recommendations for a splitter? I made the assumption your subs still have XLR. I make my own cables, and just finished rewiring over the weekend. Two of the sub outputs are split for two subs each. The Emotiva XBAL is a nice, neat, pretty inexpensive adapter. It allows the use of standard XLR cables so no Y cable is needed. There's a lot of XLR cables for less than $10 each. This way everything is XLR. XLR splitter: emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/xbal-1x2 |
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Post by rockman85 on Nov 30, 2020 19:06:59 GMT -5
I thought of this, I already own a pair of XLR to RCA cables, could be a better solution I suppose, potentially more expensive. Got any recommendations for a splitter? I made the assumption your subs still have XLR. I make my own cables, and just finished rewiring over the weekend. Two of the sub outputs are split for two subs each. The Emotiva XBAL is a nice, neat, pretty inexpensive adapter. It allows the use of standard XLR cables so no Y cable is needed. There's a lot of XLR cables for less than $10 each. This way everything is XLR. XLR splitter: emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/xbal-1x2yeah, if the subwoofer was an XLR it would have been a no brainer solution. My worry is that using the XLR to RCA cable would halve the voltage as well. I am not basing that on any knowledge but I thought maybe the cable works by just dropping one side of the balanced pair hence halving the voltage again, which would leave me in the same predicament. Do you think the XLR to RCA cable would produce the same problem? |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Nov 30, 2020 19:33:26 GMT -5
yeah, if the subwoofer was an XLR it would have been a no brainer solution. My worry is that using the XLR to RCA cable would halve the voltage as well. I am not basing that on any knowledge but I thought maybe the cable works by just dropping one side of the balanced pair hence halving the voltage again, which would leave me in the same predicament. Do you think the XLR to RCA cable would produce the same problem? If the sub only has RCA inputs then yes, the voltage is half using just the one signal wire of the connection. You need to be cautious about increasing the voltage to the input of the sub, everything has its limits. Maybe just verify what the actual voltage is coming out of the pre. As an example, the output voltage from the VSUB-1 wireless receiver is 2-1/2 Volts with no connection at a normal volume level. I just happened to measure one of mine last night. |
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Post by DYohn on Nov 30, 2020 20:59:50 GMT -5
You need a preamp with bass management. Magni is a headphone amp and will not help you. But if the Magni can boost up the signal higher than the one coming in, I can set its volume at x, whatever makes sense, then the volume on the DC-1 would be sending unadulterated XLR to the amp, then RCA to the Magni, which boost the signal higher, then out to the sub. Why wouldn't this work? Just FYI, Magni has a pre-amp function, take a look at the back, it has RCA out. "Versatility Comes Standard Both Magnis include preamp outputs. This means you can connect either one to your desktop powered monitors for a complete system—or even connect it to a speaker power amp and use it as a preamp. With its built-in time-delayed start-up and instant shut-down, there’ll be no glitches or pops through either headphones or speakers, either." Yes I own 2 versions of Magni. You’d be making a mistake to use it that way. |
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Post by brutiarti on Nov 30, 2020 21:08:11 GMT -5
Better split signals either the xlr or the rca’s
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Post by rockman85 on Nov 30, 2020 21:43:12 GMT -5
But if the Magni can boost up the signal higher than the one coming in, I can set its volume at x, whatever makes sense, then the volume on the DC-1 would be sending unadulterated XLR to the amp, then RCA to the Magni, which boost the signal higher, then out to the sub. Why wouldn't this work? Just FYI, Magni has a pre-amp function, take a look at the back, it has RCA out. "Versatility Comes Standard Both Magnis include preamp outputs. This means you can connect either one to your desktop powered monitors for a complete system—or even connect it to a speaker power amp and use it as a preamp. With its built-in time-delayed start-up and instant shut-down, there’ll be no glitches or pops through either headphones or speakers, either." Yes I own 2 versions of Magni. You’d be making a mistake to use it that way. Buy why, what would be the negative? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 30, 2020 23:41:22 GMT -5
Besides constantly having to fiddle with the level? I doubt very much you would get the gain you would need.
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Post by rockman85 on Dec 1, 2020 13:40:48 GMT -5
Besides constantly having to fiddle with the level? I doubt very much you would get the gain you would need. Ok, you talked me out of it. I suppose the most elegant solution would be to get something like the Schiit Saga+ which as two sets of unbalanced outputs. That or just splitting the RCAs with a splitter cable. Thanks for the advice. Just a side note, why dont companies level match both the outputs, I understand why from an engineering standpoint why the balanced is 2x the unbalanced, but for people who want to use all the outputs simultaneously, couldnt they easily put more gain to the unbalanced outputs so that everything is putting out 4v? |
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Post by DYohn on Dec 1, 2020 15:07:03 GMT -5
You want your system to have one volume control. Splitting the signal is the easiest way to accomplish what you are after. A preamp is far better.
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Post by rockman85 on Dec 1, 2020 17:47:18 GMT -5
I think I figured out the problem (and solution) to my issue. The issue is that my speakers are far too sensitive; at around -40db on the preamp I am getting moderate volume levels out of my 95db speakers, which means the output voltage to the subwoofer is kinda wimpy by comparison. I see a few others have this issue on Amazon and have used this product to solve the problem (kinda what I was thinking using the Magni for). This device is dedicated to the task of simply boosting the line level signal and I think this is going to be the way to go. www.amazon.com/STEREO-LINE-PRE-AMPLIFIER-15DB-12VDC/dp/B00I01ZNUS/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 |
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Post by leonski on Dec 3, 2020 0:19:18 GMT -5
I think I figured out the problem (and solution) to my issue. The issue is that my speakers are far too sensitive; at around -40db on the preamp I am getting moderate volume levels out of my 95db speakers, which means the output voltage to the subwoofer is kinda wimpy by comparison. I see a few others have this issue on Amazon and have used this product to solve the problem (kinda what I was thinking using the Magni for). This device is dedicated to the task of simply boosting the line level signal and I think this is going to be the way to go. www.amazon.com/STEREO-LINE-PRE-AMPLIFIER-15DB-12VDC/dp/B00I01ZNUS/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8You are phrasing it awkwardly...... You're speakers are of a given sensitivity, true....But? Your amp has GAIN. Connecting high sensitivity speakers to a high gain amp might result in very little usable VolControl travel. And since an amp makes more noise....decreasing to some point than increasing again, it may actually be a little noisy..... Your idea of ganging amps together to get the ultimate gain you wish? A fine way to induce noise into a system....listen to others on this point.... You never said WHAT inputs your sub has. Just RCA? A Balanced connection? Speaker level? I'd explore those options first. I setup my sub once....a few years ago and have not messed with any settings since. My PREAMP, a Parasound P5 has a seperate gain control for the sub out. Right now? It's at the center detent position and I do NOT recall ever messing with it. Try those attenuators, for sure. But give 'em a listen for noise or distortion added..... In REREADING your original post? You are using XLR to the amp and RCA to the Sub......XLR will be +6db to the RCA....trust me on this. JUST as an experiment? Get the system up and running at a comfortable level WITH the Balanced connection. Shut it down and exchange the balanced for the RCA. It is going to be a LOT quieter. Just the problem you are finding with your sub NOW? Let me know if this is right. |
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Post by rockman85 on Dec 3, 2020 13:49:36 GMT -5
I think I figured out the problem (and solution) to my issue. The issue is that my speakers are far too sensitive; at around -40db on the preamp I am getting moderate volume levels out of my 95db speakers, which means the output voltage to the subwoofer is kinda wimpy by comparison. I see a few others have this issue on Amazon and have used this product to solve the problem (kinda what I was thinking using the Magni for). This device is dedicated to the task of simply boosting the line level signal and I think this is going to be the way to go. www.amazon.com/STEREO-LINE-PRE-AMPLIFIER-15DB-12VDC/dp/B00I01ZNUS/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8You are phrasing it awkwardly...... You're speakers are of a given sensitivity, true....But? Your amp has GAIN. Connecting high sensitivity speakers to a high gain amp might result in very little usable VolControl travel. And since an amp makes more noise....decreasing to some point than increasing again, it may actually be a little noisy..... Your idea of ganging amps together to get the ultimate gain you wish? A fine way to induce noise into a system....listen to others on this point.... You never said WHAT inputs your sub has. Just RCA? A Balanced connection? Speaker level? I'd explore those options first. I setup my sub once....a few years ago and have not messed with any settings since. My PREAMP, a Parasound P5 has a seperate gain control for the sub out. Right now? It's at the center detent position and I do NOT recall ever messing with it. Try those attenuators, for sure. But give 'em a listen for noise or distortion added..... In REREADING your original post? You are using XLR to the amp and RCA to the Sub......XLR will be +6db to the RCA....trust me on this. JUST as an experiment? Get the system up and running at a comfortable level WITH the Balanced connection. Shut it down and exchange the balanced for the RCA. It is going to be a LOT quieter. Just the problem you are finding with your sub NOW? Let me know if this is right. I just purchased the subwoofer so yes, its a new problem. And I am using the Stealth DC-1 as my preamp, so it would be nice to have a subwoofer knob that I could fiddle with but I dont, the product I listed from amazon will boost my RCA signal going into my subwoofer, I really think its going to work. Its coming in the mail tomorrow and I will update the forum on my results. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 3, 2020 15:46:39 GMT -5
I hope it works......to your satisfaction.
Keep in mind that it will amplify the NOISE as well...and 15db is max, so IMO, I'd try to stay away from THAT level.
With NO signal, try turning up the new gain control, keeping an ear to the speakers. I'd be really surprised if you didn't hear some hiss / noise.
The difference between single ended and balanced is generally (it CAN vary)j 6db, so I'd start there, as a hunch.
Have you tried the Level check as I suggested? Try RCA and than Balanced without changing any levels. The Balanced SHOULD be quite a bit louder.......
Let me know how that turns out.....
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Post by rockman85 on Dec 4, 2020 15:32:09 GMT -5
You want your system to have one volume control. Splitting the signal is the easiest way to accomplish what you are after. A preamp is far better. Update...
So I added the device, at +10db I can now have my sub a little past halfway and it sounds great. I don't hear noise from my speakers (not sure why I would since they are getting fed from the XLR) and the RCA is now boosted to a point where it sounds like its a match with the speakers. Pics below.
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Post by leonski on Dec 4, 2020 16:00:31 GMT -5
You're right.....VERY unlikely to hear a hiss from a sub. It simply won't go that high.....
If you used that 'booster' on full range speakers THAN I'm pretty sure you'd hear something 'off'
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